GDT: BOS @ BUF 7pm TV:MSG Radio:WGR - 1000 games for Dad

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Most players don't hit potential, a combo a Savoie Benson Kulich Rosen etc will be third liners, which is depth. Biro rousek 4th line etc. They could use a big trade to a rebuilding team who wants assets and pick up a few roster players who want out, kind of like Calgary Kadri current situation (not him specifically). Like assets x4 for roster player with term x2.

When the GM decides to completely tear down and rebuild, it is typically a 3 year rebuild plan then transition and year 5+ become contenders. The new GM assuming Adams is fired, will be tasked with tweaking the roster/coaches. Clock started when Eichel was traded.

This is where I get lost. The 3rd lines responsibility isn't to just be the third best line. If we are sitting here saying Benson will be a third line winger down the line what are we building. He isn't the kind of guy you develop into that role.

 

[OkimLom]

We are 7-8-1, one point behind the lighting and were already not making the GBU, missed the playoffs, and fired our coach and GM and renounced our faith in the almighty Thompson?

We are on pace for 77 points, in a season where it's looking like a 94-99 point season is looking like it's supposed to be the standard to get you in the playoffs. We don't have any games in hand on teams to make up for a gap, and in fact a good amount of teams ahead of us have a game in hand on us, and the one team below us (Ottawa), has 3 games in hand and are only 3 points behind.

The team is literally average to below average in so many categories compared to their peers. There's nothing really showing that this team is anything but a team is where they are standings wise. The only bright spot, is that their record is 7-8-1. That is probably the only thing that is positive about the whole point of the team.

 

[TageGod]

This is where I get lost. The 3rd lines responsibility isn't to just be the third best line. If we are sitting here saying Benson will be a third line winger down the line what are we building. He isn't the kind of guy you develop into that role.

The third line has no special designation. They are just your third best players in those positions, and Donny wants it to be a high scoring line as well, which all of these prospects still fit. You dont mold someone to be a third liner. You get them as good as possible and see where they fit. I am not saying Benson lands there but all of these prospects cant all be top 6.

We are on pace for 77 points, in a season where it's looking like a 94-99 point season is looking like it's supposed to be the standard to get you in the playoffs. We don't have any games in hand on teams to make up for a gap, and in fact a good amount of teams ahead of us have a game in hand on us, and the one team below us (Ottawa), has 3 games in hand and are only 3 points behind.

The team is literally average to below average in so many categories compared to their peers. There's nothing really showing that this team is anything but a team is where they are standings wise. The only bright spot, is that their record is 7-8-1. That is probably the only thing that is positive about the whole point of the team.

There is no inconsistency in a team's season. How they play now is permanent. They are locked into 7-8-1 performance. 35-40-5 +2 games you can assign as you like will be their final record. 0.0% chance this team can play any good stretch of hockey and exceed those odds. Fire everyone season's lost, new owner, new gm, new coach, sell the team. Should have given up our entire prospect pool for a crappy mid tier offensive D and a goalie.

 

[sabremike]

We are on pace for 77 points, in a season where it's looking like a 94-99 point season is looking like it's supposed to be the standard to get you in the playoffs. We don't have any games in hand on teams to make up for a gap, and in fact a good amount of teams ahead of us have a game in hand on us, and the one team below us (Ottawa), has 3 games in hand and are only 3 points behind.

The team is literally average to below average in so many categories compared to their peers. There's nothing really showing that this team is anything but a team is where they are standings wise. The only bright spot, is that their record is 7-8-1. That is probably the only thing that is positive about the whole point of the team.

People who bring up the slightly below .500 record as some sort of positive is sad in itself but even worse when you realize it flatters us to an insane degree. There have been very few games this season we deserved to win and have actually been very lucky. If this level of play continues the correction will be arriving very soon and the losses are going to end up stacking up (and in fact this most likely has already begun). By the end of December this team will (if nothing changes) be far out of a playoff spot essentially playing out the string.

 

[Ralonzo]

Reaction to last nights anthem was amusing. Video I saw had a Buffalo fan turning to his wife or partner and clear saying "HE doent know the lyrics"

The Canadian anthem? I don't see what's so hard, it's just a lot of "O Canada" and how much we're going to stand on guard.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

The third line has no special designation. They are just your third best players in those positions, and Donny wants it to be a high scoring line as well, which all of these prospects still fit. You dont mold someone to be a third liner. You get them as good as possible and see where they fit. I am not saying Benson lands there but all of these prospects cant all be top 6.

There is no inconsistency in a team's season. How they play now is permanent. They are locked into 7-8-1 performance. 35-40-5 +2 games you can assign as you like will be their final record. 0.0% chance this team can play any good stretch of hockey and exceed those odds. Fire everyone season's lost, new owner, new gm, new coach, sell the team. Should have given up our entire prospect pool for a crappy mid tier offensive D and a goalie.

In my head I think we need a bit more grit through the roster. In theory I would love to either upgrade or find similar versions of Greenway and Tuch. Contract aside, Greenway - Cozens- Tuch makes sense to me as a good 3rd line that can play both directions and score. In that scenario Benson evolves into a RW and Tuch moves down as he ages/Benson gets better. Similar on the left side with Greenway.

Taking Mitts transformation into account with Cozens expectations and contract, I don't see how CM isn't part of the core going forward. Which means Cozens needs to figure out how to be the best or second best RW on the team.

I guess what I am saying is that these are the sorts of plans that a GM needs be able to address, identify, and provide some proactive action and decisiveness around. And to your point it seems to be "well lets wait and see who these players could maybe be, where they fit in, and what we do". The problem is you sit on assets that you are unsure if they fit and lack of vision eventually costs value because they may not end up fitting and you waited so long you extracted minimal to no value.

 

[Dubi Doo]

People who bring up the slightly below .500 record as some sort of positive is sad in itself but even worse when you realize it flatters us to an insane degree. There have been very few games this season we deserved to win and have actually been very lucky. If this level of play continues the correction will be arriving very soon and the losses are going to end up stacking up (and in fact this most likely has already begun). By the end of December this team will (if nothing changes) be far out of a playoff spot essentially playing out the string.

Yeah. They had a 4 or 5 game stretch where they looked decent, but they looked like ass to start the year, and have been awful the past 5 or 6 games.

I'm taking a bit of a break until they get their heads on straight. It just annoys me to no end watching players repeatedly ease up going into battles. They're way too content with reaching for pucks rather than fighting for body position. They're playing lifeless hockey, and it kills the joy of the game for me.

Incredibly disappointing start to the season, and I'm starting to question whether or not Granato can get this team focused enough to work out those flaws. I'm not team 'fire Granato', but I am team 'concerned with Granato'. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Yeah. They had a 4 or 5 game stretch where they looked decent, but they looked like ass to start the year, and have been awful the past 5 or 6 games.

I'm taking a bit of a break until they get their heads on straight. It just annoys me to no end watching players repeatedly ease up going into battles. They're way too content with reaching for pucks rather than fighting for body position. They're playing lifeless hockey, and it kills the joy of the game for me.

Incredibly disappointing start to the season, and I'm starting to question whether or not Granato can get this team focused enough to work out those flaws. I'm not team 'fire Granato', but I am team 'concerned with Granato'. Time will tell, I suppose.

This is when coaching gets hard. Your plan and approach doesn't produce like you thought it would and you have to readjust. And KNOW what to actually change and do.

The last 2 seasons, Granato got the team focused on executing some fundamentals that resulted in cohesion and confidence. At least on the offensive side of the puck. Pretty basic but you could see better positioning, passing lanes being filled at the right time and increased puck possession. We were told defense would come next. Sorry, but there's no cohesive defensive system in place and opposing teams have learned how to neutralize the Sabre's rush. And the grinding puck control that KO, Grigs, etc. executed last season is not happening.

I suspect Donnie has taken them as far as he is able and is not capable of instituting the next step. And his assistants are clueless.

Like you said, we'll see and time will tell......

P.S. No one will ever get Skinner to play a lunchpail cycle in the corners type of offensive game. Pretty sure Olafsson and Peterka aren't candidates either. I could mention a few other players as well.

 

[Macbanan]

This team is making the playoffs. The necessary parts are there, they just have to find their game more consistently.

Offensively, this game was a step forward against a Boston that only has 1 regulation loss and excellent goaltending.

Thompson isn't going to score with pretty much every opportunity like last year but he'll get going, just like Cozens will.

 

[Mattilaus]

This team is making the playoffs. The necessary parts are there, they just have to find their game more consistently.

Offensively, this game was a step forward against a Boston that only has 1 regulation loss and excellent goaltending.

Thompson isn't going to score with pretty much every opportunity like last year but he'll get going, just like Cozens will.

Thompson is gonna have a hard time getting going from IR. The last thing we need is another hero run from mid January to April only to fall short by a couple points again so that the management can again go "no, look! January to April is the REAL Sabres! They just need another year!"

 

[Dreakon13]

The last thing we need is another hero run from mid January to April only to fall short by a couple points again so that the management can again go "no, look! January to April is the REAL Sabres! They just need another year!"

I'd take that over them playing sub-.500 hockey the entire season. I think Sabres fans are so disillusioned they just want to fast forward to the part where we fire everyone and rebuild again.

If you don't feel like fighting for a playoff spot is good experience for these guys, or that experience doesn't matter, I dunno what to tell you.

 

[Mattilaus]

I'd take that over them playing sub-.500 hockey the entire season. I think Sabres fans are so disillusioned they just want to fast forward to the part where we fire everyone and rebuild again.

If you don't feel like fighting for a playoff spot is good experience for these guys, or that experience doesn't matter, I dunno what to tell you.

They clearly haven't learned much from the experience they had last year because they haven't learned that starting the season slow will screw you later in the year.

 

[brian_griffin]

This is when coaching gets hard. Your plan and approach doesn't produce like you thought it would and you have to readjust. And KNOW what to actually change and do.

The last 2 seasons, Granato got the team focused on executing some fundamentals that resulted in cohesion and confidence. At least on the offensive side of the puck. Pretty basic but you could see better positioning, passing lanes being filled at the right time and increased puck possession. We were told defense would come next. Sorry, but there's no cohesive defensive system in place and opposing teams have learned how to neutralize the Sabre's rush. And the grinding puck control that KO, Grigs, etc. executed last season is not happening.

I suspect Donnie has taken them as far as he is able and is not capable of instituting the next step. And his assistants are clueless.

Like you said, we'll see and time will tell......

P.S. No one will ever get Skinner to play a lunchpail cycle in the corners type of offensive game. Pretty sure Olafsson and Peterka aren't candidates either. I could mention a few other players as well.

This was as good a post as any to reply to, given the content. I stayed out of the GDT last night and at Pittsburgh. In the PIT game, I was shocked the Sabres put up something like 36 shots by the time the game was over, because it sure as heck seemed, in particular in the 1st opening period, they wanted nothing to do with possessing the puck. It wasn't sticking to their sticks, and when it did, they were far too comfortable giving it up. either through unforced giveaways, dumps without chases, "passing" to open areas which were too small to afford a Sabre teammate advantage on a 50/50 puck to make it a better puck (like a 75 BUF / 25 PIT puck), or simply sending it to an open area. Never did I see a Sabre re-assess the on-ice situation and turn back toward his own zone deep, or dump a deep pass back to the D-men as you would on a 2nd period forward line change, etc. It's as if they didn't want to hold the puck.

This team is unprepared to start EVERY game. The coaching staff is to blame for that. Everyone is way too comfortable. Urgency has to set in somehow, some way.

Again, I stayed out of the GDT last night, so don't know if anyone fired up the banner meme, but I suggest:

|--------------------------------------|
|....................Nov. 14th 2023...................|
| Were out of it 15 min into 1st pd..|
| of Captain's 1000th NHL game......|
| Because he means so much to us.|
|--------------------------------------|

 

[Dreakon13]

They clearly haven't learned much from the experience they had last year because they haven't learned that starting the season slow will screw you later in the year.

Don't get me wrong, I wish they'd fight a little harder to start this season having gotten a taste of a playoff push last year... but with all due respect, especially since the problem right now is our best players, your opinion is trade everyone, fire everyone and start over again, because if they haven't and won't learn anything. They'll never get better so lets just get to the next rebuild.

 

[Mattilaus]

Don't get me wrong, I wish they'd fight a little harder to start this season having gotten a taste of a playoff push last year... but with all due respect, especially since the problem right now is our best players, your opinion is trade everyone, fire everyone and start over again, because if they haven't and won't learn anything. They'll never get better so lets just get to the next rebuild.

Interesting how you came to that conclusion. Care to quote any post I have ever made that has ever said anything even remotely close to what you are telling me is my own opinion? Maybe try less hyperbole.

 

[Dreakon13]

Interesting how you came to that conclusion. Care to quote any post I have ever made that has ever said anything even remotely close to what you are telling me is my own opinion? Maybe try less hyperbole.

How else do you see flaming out the rest of the season, drafting high, killing what little confidence this group has to make sure your least favorite Sabres brass get fired playing out?

Because having followed this team for the last 20 years, I can tell you it ends pretty close what I just said.

 

[Mattilaus]

How else do you see flaming out the rest of the season, drafting high, killing what little confidence this group has to make sure your least favorite Sabres brass get fired playing out?

Because having followed this team for the last 20 years, I can tell you it ends pretty close what I just said.

Gonna keep going? Okay quote anywhere I have stated I am of the opinion the brass needs to be fired, in any thread on here. Or quote anything showing I even have a least favorite, let alone want someone fired. You are grinding an axe against the wrong person here.

 

[Fezzy126]

We are 7-8-1, one point behind the lighting and were already not making the GBU, missed the playoffs, and fired our coach and GM and renounced our faith in the almighty Thompson?

We also just went 4-1-1 before losing to a hot Pittsburgh team and a Boston team that's off to another stupidly good start. But after this sports weekend in Buffalo sometimes you just gotta let people carry their pitchforks for a while

The Tage injury really sucks, hopefully we'll be able to tread water once Tuch returns.

 

[Dreakon13]

Gonna keep going? Okay quote anywhere I have stated I am of the opinion the brass needs to be fired, in any thread on here. Or quote anything showing I even have a least favorite, let alone want someone fired. You are grinding an axe against the wrong person here.

"The last thing we need is another hero run from mid January to April only to fall short by a couple points again so that the management can again go "no, look! January to April is the REAL Sabres! They just need another year!""

Why is it the last thing we need? Why is it worse than continuing to play bad? Because going on a good run and barely making it does what... make management look better? To what end, do they know what they're doing or don't they? I'd say it's valuable experience for the kids but apparently we've proven they will never learn anything from it, so they're out. Management bad. Players bad. What conclusion should I draw?

 

[Mattilaus]

"The last thing we need is another hero run from mid January to April only to fall short by a couple points again so that the management can again go "no, look! January to April is the REAL Sabres! They just need another year!""

Why is it the last thing we need? Why is it worse than continuing to play bad? Because going on a good run and barely making it does what... make management look better? To what end, do they know what they're doing or don't they? I'd say it's valuable experience for the kids but apparently we've proven they will never learn anything from it, so they're out. Management bad. Players bad. What conclusion should I draw?

Because it can lead management to come to the conclusion that they don't need to add anything this summer. If we have a bunch of injuries and then magically play well when it is too late it can lead to a wrong evaluation of how good the current team is.

I honestly don't even know how my point here could be missed. You are so angry at someone/everyone you decided I want everyone fired and traded when I am advocating for true roster evaluation so management can identify roster needs and hopefully fill them in the summer.

I don't expect a reasoned response to this given your hostility so far so I am out of this convo.

 

[Dreakon13]

Because it can lead management to come to the conclusion that they don't need to add anything this summer. If we have a bunch of injuries and then magically play well when it is too late it can lead to a wrong evaluation of how good the current team is.

I honestly don't even know how my point here could be missed. You are so angry at someone/everyone you decided I want everyone fired and traded when I am advocating for true roster evaluation so management can identify roster needs and hopefully fill them in the summer.

I don't expect a reasoned response to this given your hostility so far so I am out of this convo.

If you think losing out the rest of the season is better for them, because it'll give management a better idea who to replace (protip: at this point, the conclusion is replace everyone besides Mittelstadt and Greenway lol) then so be it. I think that's pretty naive and more damning than you realize, and no good can come from it, but fair enough.

 

[jd1970]

I feel bad for Sabres fans.

 

[Mattilaus]

If you think losing out the rest of the season is better for them, because it'll give management a better idea who to replace (protip: at this point, the conclusion is replace everyone besides Mittelstadt and Greenway lol) then so be it. I think that's pretty naive and more damning than you realize, and no good can come from it, but fair enough.

Whatever you decide my opinion is, sure.

 

[Dreakon13]

Whatever you decide my opinion is, sure.

It's a public forum, don't take my interpretation of what you say so personally. I've explained my reasoning, and admitted my initial interpretation was wrong... though I still don't agree that losing out the rest of the year is a good thing. I don't know how anyone could.

 

[Mattilaus]

It's a public forum, don't take my interpretation of what you say so personally. I've explained my reasoning, and admitted my initial interpretation was wrong... though I still don't agree that losing out the rest of the year is a good thing. I don't know how anyone could.

No, you didn't even read what I said. You made up an argument in your head, attributed it to me, then went on several rants against it. You legit did it again in your last post, insinuating I ever said anything close to replacing everyone on the roster aside from mitts and Greenway. I never said anything that could be interpreted that way, but you decided it was said anyways. I am sure I am just wasting my time.