Confirmed with Link: Bob Nicholson Named Vice Chairman Of Newly Formed Oilers Entertainment Group

Gone

Fire KLowe
Aug 9, 2005
4,098
43
Earth
So...you dont like the idea that a very rich owner, that was born and raised in Edmonton, and extremely successful in expanding a local franchise, has the vision to make this city a better place to live.

Alrighty then, to each their own.

Personally I am very excited to see Katz put his mark on the city after having lived here for over 30 years.

You probably never liked the West Edmonton Mall idea either, which brings in millions of dollars a year from tourism.

The Germezians paid for west Edmonton mall, care of some sweet loans from ATB. Once they defaulted on those loans all they were left with was managing the mall. They were not handed it as a 30-year gift, a la Katz.

I agree that a new arena was important, and think it will do wonders for the down town. I think it's terrible of a City to subsidize a billionaire when there is no need. But hell, he has most people on here thinking its a great idea, so gee, it very well must be.
 

AnInjuredJasonZucker

Registered User
Feb 21, 2014
4,884
8,110
What your citing doesn't usually occur. Take a look at Winnipeg. Arena downtown, Museum downtown, all kinds of entertainment facilities and attempts to resurrect downtown. In a city that is increasingly Canada's answer to Detroit. Short version is it doesn't work period. Arena's and infrastructure, no matter how much, or variety of do not vitalize and economy, serve to retain industry, or productive employees. Everything happening in Winnipeg currently should tell you that. Most of downtown Winnipeg still looks like a bomb dropped on it despite all the efforts at revitalizing.



If the Oil and gas sector falls down again no amount of diversity is going to sustain impetus. Certainly an Arena, and any such infrastructure isn't even a part of diversifying economy albeit it often parlays further service sector job *opportunities*

Of course it's not a guarantee that it will work, but I'd rather my tax dollars go towards a densely populated downtown than filling potholes out near Leduc.

And it's not just about downtown revitalization either. Don't oversimplify the process. First you create and refine the product (an attractive and livable city), then you foster an environment for industrial growth and innovation (Canada as a whole needs to do a much better job of this), then you sell it like crazy. Edmonton has two major advantages over a city like Winnipeg in that regard: one being the U of A, and the other being a wealth of intellectual talent in the oil and gas industry. A startup can come in and find a wealth of students and professionals with which to grow a business.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
36,155
16,616
Does the info on an arena's impact take the overall economy into account? In Edmonton they would not be counting on the arena to revitalize an economy. The arena is more about increasing the profile of the city, which is the biggest issue with the city.
 

Tyrolean

Registered User
Feb 1, 2004
9,625
724
I too have watched the Oilers that long. Most other franchises treat the on ice product as a Buisness, while Katz treats it as a toy (a la Harold Ballard). I don't see a commitment to winning or even icing a competitive product. Rather the Oilers have been turned into a money making machine, that was/is used to hold this city hostage so it's owner can squeeze every last cent from its citizens; all the while keeping his incompetent friends employed. This is arrogance. So to call the blood, sweat and tear, blue-collar citizen who mostly supports this 30-year vision arrogant, is way too far. I recognize it was Jimmi who believes that, but I think you should re- visit your opinion too.

After 8 years of embarrassment, for me, there is no "sweetness" that can erase the bitter taste that is KLowe's Oilers. With him at the helm, their will be no deep playoff runs. One day there may be a shallow entry into the playoffs, but thus far, this team projects no further. He needs to go. It is his arrogance that has this team where it is today.

Had Nicholson replaced KLowe, that would of gone a long way towards changing the culture of this team.

How true! Most of us feel that way.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
Of course it's not a guarantee that it will work, but I'd rather my tax dollars go towards a densely populated downtown than filling potholes out near Leduc.

And it's not just about downtown revitalization either. Don't oversimplify the process. First you create and refine the product (an attractive and livable city), then you foster an environment for industrial growth and innovation (Canada as a whole needs to do a much better job of this), then you sell it like crazy. Edmonton has two major advantages over a city like Winnipeg in that regard: one being the U of A, and the other being a wealth of intellectual talent in the oil and gas industry. A startup can come in and find a wealth of students and professionals with which to grow a business.

My take is some of what you state in terms of building infrastructure to attract and retain learned citizens holds value. But more and more what I see being more attractive options is recreational development. So that people, families, can engage in first person recreation and not vicarious entertainment. Todays lifestyle includes wants of access to multi-use trails, rec, work out facilities, pools, leisure etc. This is the thing that seems to keep people around and keep real estate prices high. Todays value is activity access. That's the buzz.

Liveable now connotes primary access to first person recreation. Western cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Saskatoon, Edmonton, have focused on this. Winnipeg has gone the completely wrong way and focused on building as many entertainment facilities as possible downtown, while doing nothing about increasing user friendly access to the region. Virtually no bike trails go downtown, public transit is unpleasant there, and parking your car anywhere in downtown Winnipeg is just asking for trouble=massive fail.

Fortunately in Edmonton we're covering all the bases and should be OK. Reasonable access to downtown, better places to park, more pleasant public transit access.

Finally, I'll address a theme I've often addressed re this topic is that arena/stadia infrastructure in present day are somewhat redundant particularly in attracting todays version of music festivals which almost always occur in non built venue locations, For instance in fields, parks, Islands, etc. With these often being much more enjoyable locations for promoter, fan, and acts. Meanwhile we have infrastructure like Commonwealth Stadium ( a great place) sitting empty all but 15 or so dates/year.
Theres a move away from largescale infrastructure being in vogue. When people want a festival experience they want it to occur anywhere but a stadium. To this end a place like Moncton, or Ottawa, get better festivals then we ever see sans the big stadium. It seems as if the notion that all you need is a field got forgotten for a few decades. Well that field of dreams is attracting the big crowds these days across the world.

It seems all you really need is proper marketing, a field, and some love.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
Does the info on an arena's impact take the overall economy into account? In Edmonton they would not be counting on the arena to revitalize an economy. The arena is more about increasing the profile of the city, which is the biggest issue with the city.

Edmonton is becoming a pretty livable city, profile be damned. It has been for a longtime for people that hold recreational value high. Edmonton being in a province with arguably the best recreational features found on the continent. Which tourists the world over seem to appreciate more than some local denizens. In short anybody that can't find an excellent and vital life in Alberta is spending all their time looking in the wrong places, pursuits.
Edmontons not new to this either. Much effort was spent in the 70's making user trails in river valley affording excellent recreational opportunities across countless activities.

Really for me the mountains, lakes, river valley would be hard to move away from. Its a profile that gets understated and with Travel Alberta doing a typically brutal job selling this Edmonton market. That said theres not much wrong with the actual experience of living here and all that it offers.

This notion being expressed in the thread that Edmonton, or Alberta, is all about the Oil and gas is odd. This is a great place with other exceptional and varied resources.
 
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Dorian2

Define that balance
Jul 17, 2009
12,252
2,233
Edmonton
The Germezians paid for west Edmonton mall, care of some sweet loans from ATB. Once they defaulted on those loans all they were left with was managing the mall. They were not handed it as a 30-year gift, a la Katz.

I agree that a new arena was important, and think it will do wonders for the down town. I think it's terrible of a City to subsidize a billionaire when there is no need. But hell, he has most people on here thinking its a great idea, so gee, it very well must be.

Glad to see you are coming around Gone.

:naughty:
 

McTedi

Registered User
Jul 16, 2008
12,596
5,914
Edmonton
The Germezians paid for west Edmonton mall, care of some sweet loans from ATB. Once they defaulted on those loans all they were left with was managing the mall. They were not handed it as a 30-year gift, a la Katz.

I agree that a new arena was important, and think it will do wonders for the down town. I think it's terrible of a City to subsidize a billionaire when there is no need. But hell, he has most people on here thinking its a great idea, so gee, it very well must be.
So what is the major issue here. The owner, mgmt. or the team. You seem to go off on all 3 things simultaneously with the consensus being that you hate the Oilers. If Katz hadn't bought the Oilers I truly doubt the arena project would have even been conceived by now. The multiple ownership group had no direction, they were simply keeping the bills paid. As a fan I don't really care who owns the team as long as they keep it in town, keep the ticket prices reasonable (another debate I'm sure) and try to make the team competitive. Katz trying to wheel a profit out of this is secondary for me. As an Edmonton citizen I was concerned about the negative impact (taxes, economic burden, etc) but my concerns have been swayed and I believe the arena project was needed. As a fan my biggest concern is obviously a losing squad every year and most of the debate on HF is about that. Bringing in Nicholson who for most part stays out of hockey operations can only help the Katz group on the business side of things. I don't really get the Katz hate, and Gone you can't have it both ways either he is a businessman trying to make money or he is ala Ballard playing with his new toy…the argument is a contradiction.
 

Digger12

Gold Fever
Feb 27, 2002
18,313
990
Back o' beyond
So what is the major issue here. The owner, mgmt. or the team. You seem to go off on all 3 things simultaneously with the consensus being that you hate the Oilers. If Katz hadn't bought the Oilers I truly doubt the arena project would have even been conceived by now. The multiple ownership group had no direction, they were simply keeping the bills paid. As a fan I don't really care who owns the team as long as they keep it in town, keep the ticket prices reasonable (another debate I'm sure) and try to make the team competitive. Katz trying to wheel a profit out of this is secondary for me. As an Edmonton citizen I was concerned about the negative impact (taxes, economic burden, etc) but my concerns have been swayed and I believe the arena project was needed. As a fan my biggest concern is obviously a losing squad every year and most of the debate on HF is about that. Bringing in Nicholson who for most part stays out of hockey operations can only help the Katz group on the business side of things. I don't really get the Katz hate, and Gone you can't have it both ways either he is a businessman trying to make money or he is ala Ballard playing with his new toy…the argument is a contradiction.

Agree with this. IMO while Katz does have a personal attachment to owning the team he cheered for in his younger days and would obviously like nothing more than to see this team win another Cup with his buddies at the helm, ultimately it appears that he views this franchise as the centerpiece of a burgeoning sports empire.

Obviously this team hasn't had the results yet, but his more recent actions point to him treating the Oilers like an asset to be leveraged for greater gains, not a plaything to play God with.
 

Beerfish

Registered User
Apr 14, 2007
19,513
5,665
Agree with this. IMO while Katz does have a personal attachment to owning the team he cheered for in his younger days and would obviously like nothing more than to see this team win another Cup with his buddies at the helm, ultimately it appears that he views this franchise as the centerpiece of a burgeoning sports empire.

Obviously this team hasn't had the results yet, but his more recent actions point to him treating the Oilers like an asset to be leveraged for greater gains, not a plaything to play God with.

He's doing both and getting the best of both worlds. He can afford to do this because he has an absolute captive audience who will pay top dollar and have a waiting list no matter how awful the product is. He was also fortunate to have a bunch of boneheads on city council to cave in on just about ever thing in the negotiations. The city of Edmonton should have been just like the Mayor of Calgary.

"We need a new arena, we want a new arena, we are prepared to make it as easy as possible for you to build a new arena and will go well out of our way to cooperate with you but we are not building you a new arena."
 

McTedi

Registered User
Jul 16, 2008
12,596
5,914
Edmonton
He's doing both and getting the best of both worlds. He can afford to do this because he has an absolute captive audience who will pay top dollar and have a waiting list no matter how awful the product is. He was also fortunate to have a bunch of boneheads on city council to cave in on just about ever thing in the negotiations. The city of Edmonton should have been just like the Mayor of Calgary.

"We need a new arena, we want a new arena, we are prepared to make it as easy as possible for you to build a new arena and will go well out of our way to cooperate with you but we are not building you a new arena."
The alternative??
 

rboomercat90

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
14,802
9,137
Edmonton
Agree with this. IMO while Katz does have a personal attachment to owning the team he cheered for in his younger days and would obviously like nothing more than to see this team win another Cup with his buddies at the helm, ultimately it appears that he views this franchise as the centerpiece of a burgeoning sports empire.

Obviously this team hasn't had the results yet, but his more recent actions point to him treating the Oilers like an asset to be leveraged for greater gains, not a plaything to play God with.
Clearly it's an asset to be leveraged for greater gains. It's been obvious for several years now. If it was a toy for him he'd have a much higher profile publicly and we'd have seen much more movement in the front office as the losing seasons have continued to pile up. The only times he has appeared publicly was when the arena deal was in trouble. Mark Cuban and Daniel Snyder are examples of guys whose teams are toys for them. Katz is nothing like these guys. The Oilers were a business investment for Katz.
 

Beerfish

Registered User
Apr 14, 2007
19,513
5,665
The alternative??

Watch Calgary. Hey the city could have still even gone as far as building a rink but to totally give away ever bit of revenue on a hope it will pay off down the road was foolish. Know why there is a nice big new Oiler entertainment group? The team is going to make an outright killing on non hockey events at the arena.

The Katz Oilers don't like it? Pound Sand. (Omg! They will move the team! lol)
 

Gone

Fire KLowe
Aug 9, 2005
4,098
43
Earth
So what is the major issue here. The owner, mgmt. or the team. You seem to go off on all 3 things simultaneously with the consensus being that you hate the Oilers. If Katz hadn't bought the Oilers I truly doubt the arena project would have even been conceived by now. The multiple ownership group had no direction, they were simply keeping the bills paid. As a fan I don't really care who owns the team as long as they keep it in town, keep the ticket prices reasonable (another debate I'm sure) and try to make the team competitive. Katz trying to wheel a profit out of this is secondary for me. As an Edmonton citizen I was concerned about the negative impact (taxes, economic burden, etc) but my concerns have been swayed and I believe the arena project was needed. As a fan my biggest concern is obviously a losing squad every year and most of the debate on HF is about that. Bringing in Nicholson who for most part stays out of hockey operations can only help the Katz group on the business side of things. I don't really get the Katz hate, and Gone you can't have it both ways either he is a businessman trying to make money or he is ala Ballard playing with his new toy…the argument is a contradiction.

The major issue is one: KLowe. He must go, and a reasonable (non-ex-Oiler) replacement chosen. Some of us thought we had that last week (Nicholson). Given the reluctance of Katz to cut lose any of his ole-boys, it's starting to look like the problem is really higher up the food chain.

On one hand you imply the multiple ownership group was terrible, yet you say "I don't really care who owns the team", which is it?

I don't get what you are saying that because he is a business man trying to make money that he can't act like Ballard? Really? How is this a contradiction? You don't think Ballard tried to make money, and play God with his little sports empire at the same time. Where is the rule book that says you can't do both.

Speak of contradictions, you spew them out continuously.
 

McTedi

Registered User
Jul 16, 2008
12,596
5,914
Edmonton
The major issue is one: KLowe. He must go, and a reasonable (non-ex-Oiler) replacement chosen. Some of us thought we had that last week (Nicholson). Given the reluctance of Katz to cut lose any of his ole-boys, it's starting to look like the problem is really higher up the food chain.

On one hand you imply the multiple ownership group was terrible, yet you say "I don't really care who owns the team", which is it?

I don't get what you are saying that because he is a business man trying to make money that he can't act like Ballard? Really? How is this a contradiction? You don't think Ballard tried to make money, and play God with his little sports empire at the same time. Where is the rule book that says you can't do both.

Speak of contradictions, you spew them out continuously.
I didn't say the multiple ownership group was terrible, I said they had no direction. As a fan I take my hat off to that group for saving the franchise when they did. Katz had a vision when he bought the franchise that is all I was alluding to.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
I didn't say the multiple ownership group was terrible, I said they had no direction. As a fan I take my hat off to that group for saving the franchise when they did. Katz had a vision when he bought the franchise that is all I was alluding to.

tbh I think its quite fair to say by now that the Oilers are Katz little play thing as suggested and that rather than having an owner with any particular great on ice expectations we have one that has parlayed this ownership into a public fronted arena where Katz need put up little outlay other than his investment in the team and get virtually all proceeds from any of the events at the arena. Sure most owners in present day get the latter. Most owners also are expected to contribute much more in initial outlay.

Katz saved the franchise, sure, but at this point not looking like merely a good faith act to the citizens of Edmonton. Indeed the putrid Seattle saga put any such notion to rest for good.

Katz wants the Oilers due to his affinity and memories of that product. Which seem to be largely sentimental memories involving the past glory and servicing the past glory and who was part of that. Which is a far different thing then servicing present or future glory.
 

Dorian2

Define that balance
Jul 17, 2009
12,252
2,233
Edmonton
The major issue is one: KLowe. He must go, and a reasonable (non-ex-Oiler) replacement chosen. Some of us thought we had that last week (Nicholson). Given the reluctance of Katz to cut lose any of his ole-boys, it's starting to look like the problem is really higher up the food chain.

On one hand you imply the multiple ownership group was terrible, yet you say "I don't really care who owns the team", which is it?

I don't get what you are saying that because he is a business man trying to make money that he can't act like Ballard? Really? How is this a contradiction? You don't think Ballard tried to make money, and play God with his little sports empire at the same time. Where is the rule book that says you can't do both.

Speak of contradictions, you spew them out continuously.


Yeah, this fits Katz's profile to a T. :shakehead

Shortly after taking control of the Leafs, Ballard stood trial on 49 counts of fraud, theft and tax evasion involving $205,000. He was accused by the Crown attorney of using funds from Maple Leaf Gardens Ltd. to pay for renovations to his home on Montgomery Rd., in Etobicoke. Funds were also used to renovate his Midland cottage, to rent limousines for his daughter's wedding in 1967, and to buy motorcycles for his sons (passing off the expense as hockey equipment for the Marlboros), as well as placing money belonging to the corporation into a private bank account that he controlled along with Stafford Smythe. Ballard pleaded not guilty to all charges.
 

McTedi

Registered User
Jul 16, 2008
12,596
5,914
Edmonton
tbh I think its quite fair to say by now that the Oilers are Katz little play thing as suggested and that rather than having an owner with any particular great on ice expectations we have one that has parlayed this ownership into a public fronted arena where Katz need put up little outlay other than his investment in the team and get virtually all proceeds from any of the events at the arena. Sure most owners in present day get the latter. Most owners also are expected to contribute much more in initial outlay.

Katz saved the franchise, sure, but at this point not looking like merely a good faith act to the citizens of Edmonton. Indeed the putrid Seattle saga put any such notion to rest for good.

Katz wants the Oilers due to his affinity and memories of that product. Which seem to be largely sentimental memories involving the past glory and servicing the past glory and who was part of that. Which is a far different thing then servicing present or future glory.
If little play thing refers to running the team how he wants then yah I guess we agree. I didn't like the Seattle visit ploy either but I guess he was making his point. It was a fairly lousy thing to do to an already pissed off fan base. I'm not pro Katz necessarily but does it really matter who owns them.
 

smackdaddy

x – Edmonton
Nov 24, 2006
10,105
50
B.C.
Who here thinks Calgary will find some philanthropist willing to front the entirety of the costs for a new arena on a small market Canadian team raise their hand?
 

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