TSN: Bob McKenzie on Insider Trading: Leafs have preliminary contract talks with Jake Muzzin

[selltrade]

3 to 4 yrs at 5 million is a great move

 

[DarkKnight]

Sign Muzzin, dump Barrie at the deadline if Reilly is progressing well. You aren't bringing Barrie back if you're signing Muzzin, so get some assets and quit letting guys leave for nothing, it will catch up with you. Besides, Barrie is a mixed bag, it's hard to argue he is integral to any realistic cup run.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Muzz has pulled himself ahead of Barrie in terms of priority of who we should re-sign. Not by a lot mind you, but enough. Mostly due to Barrie being not as advertised or as effective as his time with Colorado.

Muzzin has at least seemed to find a true partner in Holl before he went down and that pairing was good. Barrie has been unable to find that.

Barrie will be a UFA. They would be crazy to sign him with Liljegren ready. Sandin and Liljegren will be a solid young pair for us in protected minutes if they choose. Personally i think they might be excellent in a more responsibility type roll.

Sandin is poised as Kaberle was his rookie season type level from what I’m seeing ha. Give these guys a few years and we have more cap strain coming in a couple years.

Maybe Liljegren only getting 9 games before the playoffs is something the team is really struggling with on a forward looking decision. Lets say Liljegren is ready and they bring him in now with Sandin, its cap difficulties big time in three years. Better to have them spread out a year is likely a better decision.

Muzzy over Barrie is the need for us. I am glad they are going that way to sign Muzzy if true.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I would be thrilled to bring Muzzin back. Barrie? I'm not even going to warn him about the door hitting him on his way out.

 

[pucksakes666]

Avoid Pietro , sharks will over pay for him they like to overpay for defenceman

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Avoid Pietro , sharks will over pay for him they like to overpay for defenceman

Yeah. The leafs simply don't have the cap space for a superstar ufa defenseman, unless they trade Nylander.

Of all leaf defensemen, I think Muzzin is by far the most important to re-sign. He's the type of player the team desperately needs to sign/keep.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Yeah. The leafs simply don't have the cap space for a superstar ufa defenseman, unless they trade Nylander.

Of all leaf defensemen, I think Muzzin is by far the most important to resign. He's the type of player the team desperately needs to sign/keep.

They have way more options than just trading Nylander.

That's just the Nylander hate coming through.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

They have way more options than just trading Nylander.

That's just the Nylander hate coming through.

I don't think they do.

The problem is having half the cap taken up by 4 forwards. Trading cheaper options like Johnsson/Kapanen/etc. won't solve that problem.

To sign a superstar ufa defenseman, one of the big 4 forwards would have to go. Tavares has a nmc and chose to come home to Toronto. I don't think Marner would have gotten 11x6 as a ufa on the open market, let alone a team trading assets for him on top of it. And Matthews is a young franchise centre. He's not going anywhere (and we'd probably have to take a cap dump if he was traded anyways.)

So that would leave just Nylander.

I think a far better option is to not sign a superstar ufa defenseman, keep Nylander, and sign Muzzin.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Barrie is gone. Leafs are not interested in paying 8M AAV for him. They have Rielly already and he can run PP and if not then Sandin can do it.

I wish we would trade him when he has value for a 1st rounder next year. We are not winning Cup this year so why not get our pick back. I know times are bad right now to do it with Rielly out, and they likely won't do it, but he is our only asset that could get us a 1st rounder next year.

Nothing saying they won't consider doing something like that. There is nothing stopping Dubas from trading away one or both of Ceci and Barrie (and still keeping Muzzin) and then acquiring a RD in another trade like he is likely planning on doing at some point anyways. Then he can afford to move out a Ceci, and if Keefe really likes Liljegren enough to use him full time, maybe they have the gumption to trade away Barrie as well. However the chances are slim right now given Liljegren has yet to play his first game with the team.

Calgary traded Curtis Glencross for a 2nd and 3rd when they were on the bubble in 2015, and the Blues did the same with Shattenkirk in 2017. Both were bubble teams with internal replacements, but both made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs that year too. The Leafs would be a little bit different, as they could be a little bit better than a bubble team and do not have direct internal replacements for both (or possibly even one) of them, but the concept is still very similar. For example:

Leafs trade Johnsson + Ceci (or his return from a contender) for Josh Manson or Connor Murphy.
Leafs trade Barrie + to Carolina for TVR + a 1st + a conditional pick or another similar deal. If we like Liljegren, we can still use him but we are not forced to by getting TVR.

Leafs lost Johnsson, Ceci, Barrie and a plus for a Manson/Murphy, TVR, a 1st and a conditional pick. Engvall has a full time role in the top 9, Mikheyev and Moore are still hurt but we are essentially in the same spot as when Johnsson was hurt and when they come back it's a really deep forward group still.

Finally, we have 2.8 mill + Hutch's salary to find a backup upgrade. If we are dealing with Chicago for example, we could add Hutch and some mediocre futures to get a 50% retained Crawford to be included in the deal as our backup for the rest of this year (if he will waive). Or Miller from Anaheim if he will waive to come here. Similarly with Craig Anderson in Ottawa or Jimmy Howard in Detroit. That cuts down Andersen's workload for the latter part of the season, and even with retention, it shouldn't cost us much more than a couple of mid-tier prospects or picks to acquire.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I don't think they do.

The problem is having half the cap taken up by 4 forwards. Trading cheaper options like Johnsson/Kapanen/etc. won't solve that problem.

To sign a superstar ufa defenseman, one of the big 4 forwards would have to go. Tavares has a nmc and chose to come home to Toronto. I don't think Marner would have gotten 11x6 as a ufa on the open market, let alone a team trading assets for him on top of it. And Matthews is a young franchise centre. He's not going anywhere (and we'd probably have to take a cap dump if he was traded anyways.)

So that would leave just Nylander.

I think a far better option is to not sign a superstar ufa defenseman, keep Nylander, and sign Muzzin.

Ceci leaves (4.5), likely trade one of Kap/Johnsson (3.2 or 3.4), Barrie likely gone (2.75) = Total 10.55 Out (Used 3.3 for Kap/John)

Holl signed for 2, muzz signed for 5.5, Dermott signed for 3

Holl (1.325), Muzz (1.5), Dermott (2.137) = Total 4.962 In

That leaves 5.58 mil to use on a new D coming in with just trading 1 of Kap/Johnsson.

Far from only being Nylander as an option. He is an option, but far from the only option.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ceci leaves (4.5), likely trade one of Kap/Johnsson (3.2 or 3.4), Barrie likely gone (2.75) = Total 10.55 Out (Used 3.3 for Kap/John)

Holl signed for 2, muzz signed for 5.5, Dermott signed for 3

Holl (1.325), Muzz (1.5), Dermott (2.137) = Total 4.962 In

That leaves 5.58 mil to use on a new D coming in with just trading 1 of Kap/Johnsson.

Far from only being Nylander as an option. He is an option, but far from the only option.

5.58 mill minus their replacement, which could be cheap, but still needs to be considered.

Dermott for 3 mill is also pricey, especially considering he doesn't have a spot in the top 6 if Sandin and Liljegren crack the roster.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Ceci leaves (4.5), likely trade one of Kap/Johnsson (3.2 or 3.4), Barrie likely gone (2.75) = Total 10.55 Out (Used 3.3 for Kap/John)

Holl signed for 2, muzz signed for 5.5, Dermott signed for 3

Holl (1.325), Muzz (1.5), Dermott (2.137) = Total 4.962 In

That leaves 5.58 mil to use on a new D coming in with just trading 1 of Kap/Johnsson.

Far from only being Nylander as an option. He is an option, but far from the only option.

What I said was that if the leafs want a superstar ufa defenseman, then Nylander has to go. We can’t have like 60% of the cap on 5 players.

If we don’t sign a ufa superstar defenseman, then there are many other options. Which is pretty much exactly what I said. You should probably reread my post.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Would sure love to have him back, but I'd consider him plan B, and want to see what Pietrangelo is saying in the offseason before committing to Muzzin. I fully believe in Sandin at this point, so bringing Muzzin back would keep us overly deep on the left and hurting on the right again.

Letting Muzzin hit the UFA market isn't a good idea either, you don't want to end up with neither. Tough call IMO.

 

[18leafsfan18]

5.58 mill minus their replacement, which could be cheap, but still needs to be considered.

Dermott for 3 mill is also pricey, especially considering he doesn't have a spot in the top 6 if Sandin and Liljegren crack the roster.

True I guess (0.8 / 0.9 for Liljegren / Sandin)

So 3.88 mil.

Just guesses from me to be honest on the contracts, just showing there is much more options.

Reilly - UFA
Muzz - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
Marincin

 

[18leafsfan18]

What I said was that if the leafs want a superstar ufa defenseman, then Nylander has to go. We can’t have like 60% of the cap on 5 players.

If we don’t sign a ufa superstar defenseman, then there are many other options. Which is pretty much exactly what I said. You should probably reread my post.

Do they get one if they trade Nylander alone ?

Nope.

Comes down to a pretty simple thing. Nylander makes 6.9. If that gets the Leafs a UFA Superstar as you say, then there are plenty of other ways to drop 6.9 cap off the team.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I think this is positive news, provided it leads to a deal that makes sense for us in terms of the AAV and the length of the contract.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Assuming Muzzin wants to stay on reasonable terms, something will have to give next season:

Rielly-?
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

Dermott would be the odd man out unless he plays the wrong side, which isn't ideal. Sandin is too good to not crack the starting lineup.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Do they get one if they trade Nylander alone ?

Nope.

Comes down to a pretty simple thing. Nylander makes 6.9. If that gets the Leafs a UFA Superstar as you say, then there are plenty of other ways to drop 6.9 cap off the team.

Again, I don’t think it’s sustainable to have 60% of the cap tied up on a mere 5 players.

We simply wouldn’t be able to sign a superstar ufa defenseman unless one of the top 4 forwards was traded. Nylander would be that only option. Unless they got rid of literally all of their depth.

I still think a much better option is to just re-sign Muzzin and keep Nylander.

 

[Pinto]

I really hope it was true that he’s be willing to take less to stay closer to family. I have a feeling this contract is either gonna be too long or too high of an AAV.

 

[nuck]

Does it seem like a decent list of comparables ?

I filtered for p/gm, age, signing year etc.

Its a good list but the value of this class of player is in flux. With young players wanting huge money right after their ELC they are tapping into salary that used to go to vets later in their careers. Of the list you made I am not sure that any club is thrilled with the value they are getting from their FA defencemen except maybe the Habs so this might not be indicative of the market this summer. I know Muzz will be expecting a raise and I know the club won't offer him close to $6M as that comp is reserved for offensive players. I think his number starts with a five because I don't think they offer the term to pay below that.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Yeah. The leafs simply don't have the cap space for a superstar ufa defenseman, unless they trade Nylander.

Of all leaf defensemen, I think Muzzin is by far the most important to re-sign. He's the type of player the team desperately needs to sign/keep.

I think what he brings is valuable, but you've got to be careful with re-signing him specifically.

 

[glue]

Assuming Muzzin comes back for Nashville game, Leafs could go defence pairings like this:
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Marancin-Barrie

Dermott has played the right side before, could work right. I mean would Dermott on the right be worse then Ceci ? Also if Muzzin does sign, next year could be:

Muzzin-Holl
Reilly-Dermott
Sandin-Lilly

That looks pretty solid to me​

 

[FlareKnight]

I'd be fine if they kept him. Good to have a variety of skillsets on the blueline. And I like the potential of him and Holl as a shutdown pair right now. He'll eventually fall off. But some focus should be put on the here and now. Sure it means you either move Dermott to the right side or figure something out since we're looking pretty ok on LD. But, I think if Muzzin wants to stick around then go for it.

 

[MarMarSab3]

3 years @ 5 per would be ideal more than that we may hate that soon enough

Been on the trade Dermott trade for awhile for a RD upgrade

Reilly (Dermott replacement)
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Holl
Marincin

 

[18leafsfan18]

Again, I don’t think it’s sustainable to have 60% of the cap tied up on a mere 5 players.

We simply wouldn’t be able to sign a superstar ufa defenseman unless one of the top 4 forwards was traded. Nylander would be that only option. Unless they got rid of literally all of their depth.

I still think a much better option is to just re-sign Muzzin and keep Nylander.

Again, if Nylander's 6.9 gets you a UFA defenceman, then why couldn't they find another way to shed 6.9 in salary ?

They could even get another forever LTIR guy and pay with that.

To make a blanket statement that Nylander has to go for a D to come in is just not true, you never know what could happen or what they are working on.

I for 1 don't think Nylander is going anywhere and I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in more D help.