Player Discussion Bo Horvat

[Tables of Stats]

I understand but that merely means Bo *might* be as good, if given the same opportunity. We don’t know that he actually is. There’s still a chance he isn’t.

It also means that Drai might not be as good as we think he is either. It's obviously impossible to tell either way but given their projected points last season, the general strength of the teams (at least when it comes to scoring), and overall completeness of their games I think it's likely they're pretty close in terms of value.

 

[CanaFan]

It also means that Drai might not be as good as we think he is either. It's obviously impossible to tell either way but given their projected points last season, the general strength of the teams (at least when it comes to scoring), and overall completeness of their games I think it's likely they're pretty close in terms of value.

But having actually watched how both of them play I think it’s quite unlikely. Drai is noticeably more talented as a playmaker and possessing the puck. I could give Bo a slight edge as a goal scorer though, but for total offense I like how Drai plays more. And I always give the proven player the benefit of the doubt versus the guy who hasn’t dont it. One is a sure thing, the other is merely a possibility.

 

[Tables of Stats]

But having actually watched how both of them play I think it’s quite unlikely. Drai is noticeably more talented as a playmaker and possessing the puck. I could give Bo a slight edge as a goal scorer though, but for total offense I like how Drai plays more. And I always give the proven player the benefit of the doubt versus the guy who hasn’t dont it. One is a sure thing, the other is merely a possibility.

Drai definitely uses his size well and his knack for holding the puck down low and dishing it to the D or into the slot is a great skill that compliments a scorer like McDavid very well. Horvat creates more shots and goals on his own with his go-to power move. Drai is an excellent complement to a goal scoring linemate while Horvat will still make something happen on his own even with weaker linemates. How you value those traits really sets your valuation of the two of them.

It's possible that Horvat gets diminishing returns from playing with better players. It's also possible that Drai does worse as the best player on his line. I'm not going to argue that one or the other is definitively ahead of the other as some posters will, but I'd argue that the Canucks would be fools to add anything of value in a one-for-one trade involving these two players.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I think it’s ridiculous to assume that Horvat is on the trade block since he hasn’t been named captain yet.

Let the kid focus on hockey. Ditto for Boeser. They are still young kids.

I know people on here will lose their shit if someone like Sutter is named captain, but he’s the type of guy you want being captain. A veteran guy, outspoken, good work ethic, etc.

Give Horvat and/or Boeser the ‘A’ and let someone like Sutter be the C.

 

[Shareefruck]

It's weird how we all salivate at the idea of the dynamic power-forward that gives you an edge in the playoffs and dream about Virtanen becoming that, but that's already Horvat's bread and butter that he's incredible at, and he's treated like a two-way center with limited offense instead.

I think it's quite the oppososite actually. Stat watching Canuck fans just sees the Negative plus minus and assume he's a bad 2 way player, actually very underrated.

I'm just basing my opinion from watching him play and don't follow defensive stats. He tries to do the right things, but currently struggles badly at it, IMO. Slowly getting better though.

 

[DomY]

I think the optimism stems from the fact that Kesler all of a sudden became a 2-way player basically overnight, and Horvat has a higher offensive ceiling than Kesler.

That being said I'll echo the sentiment here. He has a ways to go before being considered a shutdown type center. It's a reason why Sutter is still here / gets premium minutes and why Beagle AND Schaller were seen as necessities.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I think the optimism stems from the fact that Kesler all of a sudden became a 2-way player basically overnight, and Horvat has a higher offensive ceiling than Kesler.

That being said I'll echo the sentiment here. He has a ways to go before being considered a shutdown type center. It's a reason why Sutter is still here / gets premium minutes and why Beagle AND Schaller were seen as necessities.

I think Kesler was always good defensively but I could be wrong.

Anyway - I think Kesler and Horvat are stylistically different. Kesler has always been a two way forward. Much like a Linden, Bergeron, Toews kind of guy.

Horvat on the other hand, is more of a power forward. He’s of the Jason Arnott/Jeff Carter mold. Even if Horvat isn’t blowing men into the boards, he’s still a guy that uses his strength down low to win puck battles.

For those of you waiting for Horvat to become a Selke nominee, don’t hold your breath (actually -@Melvin you have my permission to hold your breath). Horvat is a different breed of animal.

Cows are meant to be milked, just as a two way forward is meant to play a 200 foot game. You can try and milk a bull all you want, but you aren’t going to get milk from a Bull. You will get something entirely different. Similarly, most power forwards aren’t going to superb defensively.

 

[F A N]

I think Kesler was always good defensively but I could be wrong.

Anyway - I think Kesler and Horvat are stylistically different. Kesler has always been a two way forward. Much like a Linden, Bergeron, Toews kind of guy.

Horvat on the other hand, is more of a power forward. He’s of the Jason Arnott/Jeff Carter mold. Even if Horvat isn’t blowing men into the boards, he’s still a guy that uses his strength down low to win puck battles.

For those of you waiting for Horvat to become a Selke nominee, don’t hold your breath (actually -@Melvin you have my permission to hold your breath). Horvat is a different breed of animal.

Cows are meant to be milked, just as a two way forward is meant to play a 200 foot game. You can try and milk a bull all you want, but you aren’t going to get milk from a Bull. You will get something entirely different. Similarly, most power forwards aren’t going to superb defensively.

Horvat's role in juniors was that of a shutdown guy who can win faceoffs whose offensive game blossomed. His defensive game was certainly advanced enough that transitioned pretty well starting off in a 4th line C role as a 19 year old rookie. It's pretty rare for rookie Cs to win over 50% of his faceoffs and he did that.

I think it's pretty unusual for a player with Horvat's reputation for being good defensively in juniors to not translate in the NHL unless size and skating is an issue so I expect him to round out his game.

 

[Nick1219]

Little late there bro, the poster I quoted beat you to it by about 3 hours.

The only thing that was a little late to the party was your sarcasm detector. It’s alright. You screwed up. Don’t need to be a grouch about it mate.

 

[Jack Burton]

Just wanted to throw this out there. Anybody else sense something is up?

Team is not jumping at the chance at making Horvat the captain. Benning on the radio this week

said " we want Horvat to continue to round out his game and we have plenty of leadership on the team."

I really believe Horvat will be traded at the draft next year. for a big name RHD ....

Who can that be I believe Benning will take another shot at PK Subban and this time it will happen.

I would guess it would look like this

To Nashville - Bo Horvat

To Vancouver - PK Subban & Nashville 1st round pick in 2019.

my support to back this up

1) Horvat was almost traded for Subban two years ago at the draft. it was

To Montreal - Horvat & 5th overall

To Vancouver - Subban & 10th overall it did not happen because Montreal was not convinced the PL Dubious would make it to 5th overall ( the player they wanted ) and they were right as he went to Columbus 3rd overall

2) Subban is wearing out his welcome in Nashville with his big personality and I believe they give it one more shot to win the cup this year. if not they move on.

3) Dante Fabbro needs to be signed by Nashville after this year. they can not allow him to play out his senior year and pull another Vesey..... they would need to move out a RSD for him

4) Canucks want another center and they will draft one this year. meaning someone has to move on.

5) Benning did not draft Horvat

6) Subban would be welcomed with open arms in Vancouver by the casual money spending Canuck fans. may even be named Captain - finally allowing him to control the room something he has been looking for.
7) why the 1st round pick from Nashville Subban has 3 years left after this upcoming year at $27 million. Horvat will have 4 years under club control at $22 million.

so Vancouver drafts a blue chip center this year to replace Horvat. Get Subban for at least 3 years to add with Hughes and Vancouver"s defence has gone thru a huge change.

and they get another 1st round pick in a draft they are hosting to help with other team needs

this may not happen and they could name Horvat captain at the start of the season. but if they don"t this could be Bo Horvat"s last year in Vancouver?

My $ is on Horvat getting dealt along with our 1st to move up in the draft and getting Jack Hughes.

 

[mouz135]

My $ is on Horvat getting dealt along with our 1st to move up in the draft and getting Jack Hughes.

Are you okay with this move?

 

[MarkMM]

Are you okay with this move?

At the least it would matter how far away from #1 overall we were, if we move up a lot then losing Horvat could be justified, if our 1st is #2 overall, well...

 

[Shareefruck]

I think Kesler was always good defensively but I could be wrong.

Anyway - I think Kesler and Horvat are stylistically different. Kesler has always been a two way forward. Much like a Linden, Bergeron, Toews kind of guy.

Horvat on the other hand, is more of a power forward. He’s of the Jason Arnott/Jeff Carter mold. Even if Horvat isn’t blowing men into the boards, he’s still a guy that uses his strength down low to win puck battles.

For those of you waiting for Horvat to become a Selke nominee, don’t hold your breath (actually -@Melvin you have my permission to hold your breath). Horvat is a different breed of animal.

Cows are meant to be milked, just as a two way forward is meant to play a 200 foot game. You can try and milk a bull all you want, but you aren’t going to get milk from a Bull. You will get something entirely different. Similarly, most power forwards aren’t going to superb defensively.

I recall Linden being pretty similar to Horvat and not being nearly as good defensively early in his career (he was more of a straight power forward as well) as he turned out to be later in his career, but I could be wrong. Didn't have the same early struggles Horvat is, though.

I certainly think it's possible that Horvat turns into a strong defensive player considering his all around game in junior, but people who think there are signs that he's already on the verge of it are kidding themselves, IMO. It's currently his only glaring weakness, really. He's good at virtually everything else.

 

[PG Canuck]

If Horvat isn't captain, this team deserves to burn.

If Horvat is traded, this team deserves to burn.

 

[Breakers]

I'd put Horvat as like the 30th best centerman in the NHL. Or somewhere in the 28-32 range.

If you trade him, you are just hoping another centerman turns out like him.

 

[M2Beezy]

I'd put Horvat as like the 30th best centerman in the NHL. Or somewhere in the 28-32 range.

If you trade him, you are just hoping another centerman turns out like him.

Pretty much. Id be heart broken if Horvat was traded.

 

[Horse McHindu]

If Horvat isn't captain, this team deserves to burn.

If Horvat is traded, this team deserves to burn.

I think you are wrong on the captaincy, but correct with your 2nd point.

Horvat is a young kid. He has plenty of time to be the 'C' later. Weren't Naslund and Henrik around 26 when they became captains?

Give Horvat the A, and don't burden him with being captain......especially while the Canucks are a work in progress and losing more than winning. Give Horvat and Boeser A's, and let them focus on playing the game and getting better.

Give the C to Brandon Sutter. Sutter is already an outspoken leader in the dressing room, and connects with the young kids (according to many players and coaches on the Canucks' coaching staff). Let him take on the media after the games.

In a few years when the Canucks start their upswing again, and Sutter moves on from here, then you can give the captaincy to a guy like Horvat.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Pretty much. Id be heart broken if Horvat was traded.

He's not going to get traded.

The only people talking about Horvat being traded are the usual Chicken Little's.

BoHo is here to stay for a long time.

 

[CanaFan]

He's not going to get traded.

The only people talking about Horvat being traded are the usual Chicken Little's.

BoHo is here to stay for a long time.

Wrong as usual my friend. Check who started the thread. Seems you see “the usual Chicken Littles” even when it isn’t. Doesn’t speak well to your powers of observation.

 

[Peter10]

He's not going to get traded.

The only people talking about Horvat being traded are the usual Chicken Little's.

BoHo is here to stay for a long time.

Says the guy who wants to trade Boeser and Pettersson...

 

[Horse McHindu]

Says the guy who wants to trade Boeser and Pettersson...

I don't want either of those guys traded from Vancouver. There's a difference between expressing a desire and speculating about possibilities out loud.

 

[Fatass]

Couture is on a 6m AAV until 2022-2023. He has produced an average of 63 points over 82 games over a 5 year span, and has produced at an 1.24 PPG rate in the playoffs over the last 3 years. Are you serious? Horvat would be celebrated in this city if he ever puts together that kind of resume.

Better player than Draisaitl? LD has averaged 70 points over the last 3 seasons of play and is a year younger than Horvat.

Horvat is a good player, and those players are better. Takes nothing away from Horvat, he's just not on their level.

I’m a Canuck’s fan, and posting on a Canuck’s board. I have posted my bias outlook before here. So, yes I’m serious about how great Bo is. I just don’t understand all the negative stuff, and (kind of) hate for our players, and management. Sure we are now at the bottom of the league, but (with super great young players like Bo) I think our future looks very bright indeed.
I don’t like Couture, and really think Draisatl is way overpaid.

 

[Peter10]

I don't want either of those guys traded from Vancouver. There's a difference between expressing a desire and speculating about possibilities out loud.

You said they should be traded.

 

[iFan]

Honestly, if Horvat was traded for a player who is near 30 years old I’d be finished with the Canucks. This just makes no sense.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Honestly, if Horvat was traded for a player who is near 30 years old I’d be finished with the Canucks. This just makes no sense.

It’s a bull shit thread built on one persons bizarre speculation