Player Discussion Bo Horvat

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Nov 1, 2011
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We have way too many top 6 centers on our roster right now like sutter beagle petterson and gaudette so why not?

Beagle has literally never played top 6 and certainly not anytime in the last few years.

Sutter has played second line minutes for us, but doesn't score and shouldn't play above the 3rd line. The exception would be if you're running a scoring 1st and 3rd line, and defensive 2nd line, and an energy/checking 4th line. We're not set up for that.

Petterson has never played an NHL game, might be a winger and not a center, and even the best prospects, at his age and weight, don't usually start by getting top six ice.

Gaudette is also unproven and didn't light up the AHL late last season.

In short two of these players could be top six players and hopefully, Petterson will be an elite first line player. Of them, we could easily end up with a 1st line winger and a 3rd line center.

TLDR; Just no... you're wrong and should feel bad.
 
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Cogburn

Pretend they're yachts.
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Why would we trade Horvat? Any one acquiring him would send futures, which aren't going to be as impactful as he is, or older players who're less useful long term.
 

LordBacon

CEO of sh*tposting
Oct 31, 2017
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My reply was meant to be sarcastic bro. But still thanks for the quote. We pretty much have the same view on our center depth.
Beagle has literally never played top 6 and certainly not anytime in the last few years.

Sutter has played second line minutes for us, but doesn't score and shouldn't play above the 3rd line. The exception would be if you're running a scoring 1st and 3rd line, and defensive 2nd line, and an energy/checking 4th line. We're not set up for that.

Petterson has never played an NHL game, might be a winger and not a center, and even the best prospects, at his age and weight, don't usually start by getting top six ice.

Gaudette is also unproven and didn't light up the AHL late last season.

In short two of these players could be top six players and hopefully, Petterson will be an elite first line player. Of them, we could easily end up with a 1st line winger and a 3rd line center.

TLDR; Just no... you're wrong and should feel bad.
 
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Nick1219

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Mar 15, 2012
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Beagle has literally never played top 6 and certainly not anytime in the last few years.

Sutter has played second line minutes for us, but doesn't score and shouldn't play above the 3rd line. The exception would be if you're running a scoring 1st and 3rd line, and defensive 2nd line, and an energy/checking 4th line. We're not set up for that.

Petterson has never played an NHL game, might be a winger and not a center, and even the best prospects, at his age and weight, don't usually start by getting top six ice.

Gaudette is also unproven and didn't light up the AHL late last season.

In short two of these players could be top six players and hopefully, Petterson will be an elite first line player. Of them, we could easily end up with a 1st line winger and a 3rd line center.

TLDR; Just no... you're wrong and should feel bad.
Woooooshhhhhhh
 
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Melvin

21/12/05
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I think this is right and I think it could happen even sooner. I think they are convinced Pettersson is a centre and it makes Bo expendable.
 

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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I could see Horvat being moved if Adam Gaudette proves to be a top 6 calibre center, and if Elias Pettersson's abilities translate to that of an NHL center and if the Canucks' select Jack Hughes 1st overall next draft. But that's a lot of "if's".


I would reword this to: I could see Horvat moved if Pettersson proves himself an NHL C and if the Canucks draft a C in 2019. That results in 2 centre prospects with a higher ceiling than Horvat. This makes him the oldest C of the three and the one most easily moved.


This is ridiculous. I will eat my hat if Horvat is traded within the next 10 years (key word traded).


What are the materials contained in this hat? Post on youtube? (only half joking)


Our only good centre. Let's trade him! Yeah, no.

And why would Nashville be adding a 1st round pick to PK Subban to get Horvat exactly? Contracts aren't even nearly that different.


Horvat is the only good centre right now, yes. Will he be for that foreseeable future? Unknown.

NSH would be adding a 1st because of the difference in age. Knowing Benning, he would probably send a high 2nd back to even things out.


Why would we trade Horvat? Any one acquiring him would send futures, which aren't going to be as impactful as he is, or older players who're less useful long term.


The premise of what canuckfan75 is proposing is a pick (future) + mid-aged star defenseman. That would provide better impact now and possibly later.


This isn't an insane take. I could see it.


As could I. Horvat is tradeable if there are two better centres in-house. Right now, that seems like a dream. In a year, it may not seem that far fetched. This will be an interesting story as the year unfolds.
 
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Josepho

i want the bartkowski thread back
Jan 1, 2015
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If we can land one of the big fish centers in the draft while Pettersson also establishes himself down the middle, I have absolutely no problem dealing him for a similar age defenceman.

Carolina would be the obvious team to try it with.
 

DomY

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Aug 11, 2008
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Not that this is related, but EP's brother is a centerman that Emil Pettersson in the Nashville system.

I could see a deal with Nashville happening, but not for Subban.

Maybe Horvat and 2019 4th for Emil Pettersson, Rights to Fabbro, and a 2019 1st and 2020 1st (Top-10 Protected).

That is more or less in line with the Brayden Schenn deal to St. Louis. 4th to Nashville due to Benning tax.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Maybe Horvat and 2019 4th for Emil Pettersson, Rights to Fabbro, and a 2019 1st and 2020 1st (Top-10 Protected).

That is more or less in line with the Brayden Schenn deal to St. Louis. 4th to Nashville due to Benning tax.

Emil Pettersson is already 24. He's not a player one should target.

As for your proposed deal, it's a decent value deal, but I'm not sure it makes sense for either side. The Canucks really shouldn't be trading Horvat for Fabbro and two projected late first round picks. As for Nashville, unless they think Horvat puts them over the top, I'm not sure they want to trade away two more 1st round picks.
 
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DomY

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Emil Pettersson is already 24. He's not a player one should target.

As for your proposed deal, it's a decent value deal, but I'm not sure it makes sense for either side. The Canucks really shouldn't be trading Horvat for Fabbro and two projected late first round picks. As for Nashville, unless they think Horvat puts them over the top, I'm not sure they want to trade away two more 1st round picks.

I agree I also wouldn't target Emil. He's a throw-in in the deal centered around what amounts to 3 mid-to-late 1st rounders. That being said, Corey Pronman of The Athletic ranks Fabbro and Pettersson as the Preds #2 and #3 Prospects. The real intriguing piece is Fabbro, and there has been some noise as to whether Dante Fabbro would sign in Nashville, being blocked by superstars.

Preds get some additional insurance at center, and can even move Horvat or Johansen to wing if they want. Canucks clear $5m of cap, can bring up Gaudette, add two assets they can flip or use at the 2019 draft at home, and most likely lose a bunch more games. Fabbro comes home and takes del Zotto and/or Pouliot's spot next year which comes with a bunch of PP time. Canucks can make a splashy deal in Free Agency in 2019 as well.

Both the Pro-Tank and Pro-Benning crowds should be happy with a deal like this. Signals that 2019 is a "play the kids" year, explains need for the veteran UFA deals, and loads up on assets for 2019. The only ones who would be unhappy are the ones who recently purchased Horvat jerseys.
 
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F A N

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I agree I also wouldn't target Emil. He's a throw-in in the deal centered around what amounts to 3 mid-to-late 1st rounders. That being said, Corey Pronman of The Athletic ranks Fabbro and Pettersson as the Preds #2 and #3 Prospects. The real intriguing piece is Fabbro, and there has been some noise as to whether Dante Fabbro would sign in Nashville, being blocked by superstars.

Preds get some additional insurance at center, and can even move Horvat or Johansen to wing if they want. Canucks clear $5m of cap, can bring up Gaudette, add two assets they can flip or use at the 2019 draft at home, and most likely lose a bunch more games. Fabbro comes home and takes del Zotto and/or Pouliot's spot next year which comes with a bunch of PP time. Canucks can make a splashy deal in Free Agency in 2019 as well.

Both the Pro-Tank and Pro-Benning crowds should be happy with a deal like this. Signals that 2019 is a "play the kids" year, explains need for the veteran UFA deals, and loads up on assets for 2019. The only ones who would be unhappy are the ones who recently purchased Horvat jerseys.

My main issue with your proposal is trading Horvat for a uncertain return. Whether Horvat improves defensively or not, if he's a 25+ goal 60 point C, he's worth his cap hit. The question is whether he is a core player you can win with. If he's not, the Schenn type trade is certainly an option. If he is, you don't trade him for the type of return Schenn got. Personally, I think the Flyers got lucky that the 2018 1st became Farabee, even then, I think the Blues win the trade.
 
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DomY

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My main issue with your proposal is trading Horvat for a uncertain return. Whether Horvat improves defensively or not, if he's a 25+ goal 60 point C, he's worth his cap hit. The question is whether he is a core player you can win with. If he's not, the Schenn type trade is certainly an option. If he is, you don't trade him for the type of return Schenn got. Personally, I think the Flyers got lucky that the 2018 1st became Farabee, even then, I think the Blues win the trade.

Totally agree with everything you're saying here. However, IMO it is less important to have star players playing at their peak while wearing Canucks colours (and being worthwhile investments on their contracts) than it is to make sure that the Canucks' competitive core is all peaking at the same time.

Not to suggest a 28 or 29 year old, 60 point Horvat would not be able to meaningfully contribute to a SC-calibre team, but I'm picturing a situation where the two late-firsts get packaged with additional resources to get at least two top-5 assets in 2019 (our own pick being one of them). That would mean the core of Boeser, Pettersson, Q. Hughes, Fabbro, Juolevi, Demko/DiPietro, and in a perfect world, J. Hughes and another top asset acquired in 2019 (Newhook? Kakko? Cozens?) would all be 25 or younger.

This is also not to say that Horvat would be any less valuable at the 2019 draft, 2019 off-season, or any further season. If I recall correctly, he only has a NTC in the final two years of the deal.

None of this is a reflection on Horvat as a player, a leader, or a person. It's just bad timing that he was too young to contribute meaningfully to recharge the old core, and Horvat may be less effective than the sum of the parts he could bring back to the new core, both in terms of team control and overall effectiveness. It's like the Linden to NYI deal in '98 without the Keenan/Messier backstory.

Thanks for the discussion.
 
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MadaCanuckle

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I could see Horvat being moved if Adam Gaudette proves to be a top 6 calibre center, and if Elias Pettersson's abilities translate to that of an NHL center and if the Canucks' select Jack Hughes 1st overall next draft. But that's a lot of "if's".
More likely we move Gaudette for D help.
 

Breakers

Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
Aug 5, 2014
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Hmm
A Horvat trade would mean Brandon Sutter is our first line Center for probably 2 years.

Let that sink in
 
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M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
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We have way too many top 6 centers on our roster right now like sutter beagle petterson and gaudette so why not?
Beagle and Sutter are 3rd/4th line centres, Gaudette hopefully lives up to the hype of a top 6 C, and still UNDERMINED if PBP will be a winger of centre. If hold off on even the IDEA of trading Bobo for a LONG time
 

Cogburn

Pretend they're yachts.
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The premise of what canuckfan75 is proposing is a pick (future) + mid-aged star defenseman. That would provide better impact now and possibly later.

I disagree, mostly because even if we will loosely call Horvat a top six center, he has been improving year over year after all, he would still have more of an impact over a longer period then which ever D we we can trade him for.

I'd rather start with solid center depth (assuming Gaudette and Pettersson both make it as NHL center in top six roles) then trade someone for a defender than move our only bonafide NHL offensive center and hope one of our guys make, and have better D (I feel even with an elite D our defense is still a write off).

We have a lot out of maybes and probablys on our depth charts, I'm in no hurry to move one of the few success stories we have had. Even for someone like Karlsson or Subban, I'd rather trade futures than Horvat or Bowser.
 

DL44

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If Bo is what he is (A 20g 50-60pt center), then sure... I would shop him for a great young RHD.

But i think he's still got some room left under his ceiling... I would need to see another step this season for that to materialize.

I'm optimistic he has 70 pt capability.
Now just stay healthy.
 
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