Blues Trade Proposals Part XIV

[bleedblue1223]

The bigger key with Sobotka is if we fail horribly again and decide to move on from Backes as captain and as a player, Sobotka can be the 3rd line center, so a Backes trade can have either move future value. When Kesler was traded Vancouver needed Bonino as a replacement, instead we could get a good prospect in place of a center replacement.

Stastny would replace Backes' spot and Son Of a B**** becomes SOS.

Similar thing if Oshie is the core guy to be moved.

 

[StLHokie]

The McClement we knew was that guy. I'm not so sure he's still functioning at the level you're describing.

Could be the case, I'll be honest in saying I haven't been able to watch him as much as of late.

I do recall though that for a while in Toronto he was playing on the 3rd line, so maybe that's why? I'm not sure what he's been doing this year in Carolina, other than when he played against us and had a pretty good game.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Sobotka was on pace for 44 points and is a great possession player. He can work on any line that has another skill guy or 2 one it because he can work in the corners and get pucks for them and he has enough skill playmaking wise to make good passes and keep the link up plays going.

He will produce in the middle of Schwartz and Tarasenko, with some combo of SOB, and on Stastny's wing.

Consistent 40-50 point production is what you want out of the "role" players in the top 9. It's what we want out of Berglund, and the 40-50 point version of Berglund is good enough to slot on any line.

He'd start with Stastny and Jaskin or whoever, but he's of enough quality to slot on a top 9 line if needed.

Sobotka has been anything but a consistent 40-50 point producer. He's had one season where he was on pace for 44 points, fueled in no small part by playing a lot of time between Schwartz and Tarasenko, and hasn't really come close any other season.

He's good enough to be a third liner on many teams, but he shouldn't be in a regular top six role.

I'm not particularly fond of the thought of him playing with Stastny and Jaskin, personally. He'd be fine on the cycle and defensively, but who's going to shoot the puck? Stastny is a natural distributor and Jaskin tends to go to the net. Ideally they'd be complemented by someone with a good shot who is a threat more than a few feet away from the net. That's definitely not Sobotka, who tends to look for passes from the boards or go to the net without the puck (not unlike Berglund).

Ideally, I'd like to see Sobotka replace Lapierre (who is a UFA, I believe) at #4C and on the PK next year, and fill in on higher lines as needed due to injury. In a perfect world, Fabbri plays well enough to earn at least sheltered minutes on the third line with Stastny and Jaskin. If he doesn't, maybe Barbashev does. If he doesn't, maybe Rattie does and Jaskin can slide over to the left side.

I think all three have a lot more offensive upside in that role than Sobotka. Let the kids cut their teeth on the easy minutes, and Sobotka can slide up situationally (high leverage defensive zone starts, protecting leads late in the game, etc.) to replace them.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't want to be the guy overrating Sobotka, but since his play itself is consistent, I believe with any skillful linemates, he can put up that production.

 

[cardinalnation]

I would have little or no interest in Vlad S myself. Nothing personal i just don't think another 4th line player really helps much although i would be happy if he signed and they sent Ott elsewhere. Vlad has zero offensive upside and is really just a grinder. This team needs guys that can shoot and can score IMO and that is not at all what VS brings. He has a great motor and is great on face offs but unless we are talking about him replacing Ott i don't think he helps much. No thanks!

 

[Girth Butcher]

Depth/Experience Trade with Ottawa

What are your thoughts of a trade with Ottawa? They continue to change coaches more than David Backes changes sticks, but I think their issue is higher up in the organization. 10 coaches since 1992, 5 coaches since Murray became GM in 2007...yeah a new coach every season and a 1/2. How's that working out for ya Bryan?

Army made the Rundblad trade at the draft which looked risky at the time because there was a feeling that Frank could get pressured to play in the KHL. We all know it looks pretty lopsided now, but I don't think anyone was sure (back then) what Frank was capable of or even sure he could escape the lure of the KHL and stay and play at home in Russia. Thanks Mike Liut!

So, would a package consisting of Chris Neil, Chris Phillips (Methot is going to cost major assets) give us an upgraded 4th line agitator and little better 3/4 D option? Neil is a willing combatant and would settle the score against the John Scotts, Brian Bickells, Daniel Carcillo's, Patrick Bordeleau's, Brandon Bolligs, Brian McGrattans, Nolans/Cliffords/ Mcleods, etc which we need to contain so our D can survive a couple playoff series. Phillips is serviceable with loads of experience. They are both older and will cost some cap space, but it's a low risk move because of our depth on D.

The Sens will probably elect to rebuild and should ask for at least 1 or 2 young NHL roster players (or 1 plus a "good" prospect) for two older, experienced players. Together Neil and Phillips have 200+ NHL playoff game appearances vs Reaves, Cole, Butler, Gunnar with 30 games, TOTAL). Would they want one of our young depth D 5/6/7 along with Reaves, or add another piece (not named Rattie, Barbeshev , Jaskin, Fabbri or Rattie) and maybe grab one of their second round picks since we don't have a 1st this year? It would take a lot to get their 1st pick, which may end up as a lottery pick if they collapse, but they do have 2-2nd rounders and will probably add more if the move Methot, Anderson, etc. Their second round pick will likely be top 35 if they become sellers. Could Army pull another miracle with an Ottawa pick?

STL
SOB
Patrick/Paul/Joak/Jask
Ott/Max/Neil

Bo/Pie
Gunn/Shatty
Phillips/Jax (Cole/Butts/lindbolm)

 

[Dbrownss]

Our 4th line wasn't the problem. Hitch didn't want them fighting. The series was neck and neck till the last 20min of it. A retaliatory act would have ended it sooner.

 

[Hooliganx3]

I'd take Reaves over Neil every day of the week. Phillips is not very good anymore at all I would not want him paired with Jackman.

 

[Oberyn]

I don't understand the notion that Sobotka is terrible offensively. He had limited point totals because he played primarily 4th line minutes and had no PP time. The season he finally gets an increase in ice time, he shows that he can produce at a reasonable clip. He never piggybacked off of Schwartz and Tarasenko, he had great chemistry with them which is why his point totals increased.

It feels like some people are trying to devalue Sobotka to justify Armstrong's decision to not meet his contract demands. If you don't want him back, that's fine, but he's a legit top nine player on any team in the league.

 

[Dbrownss]

Sobokta - Stastny - Jaskin may not be ideal...but I'd easily take Sobokta over Berglund. Same benefits with more.

 

[STLBloosiers]

Sobokta - Stastny - Jaskin may not be ideal...but I'd easily take Sobokta over Berglund. Same benefits with more.

amen

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I don't understand the notion that Sobotka is terrible offensively. He had limited point totals because he played primarily 4th line minutes and had no PP time. The season he finally gets an increase in ice time, he shows that he can produce at a reasonable clip. He never piggybacked off of Schwartz and Tarasenko, he had great chemistry with them which is why his point totals increased.

It feels like some people are trying to devalue Sobotka to justify Armstrong's decision to not meet his contract demands. If you don't want him back, that's fine, but he's a legit top nine player on any team in the league.

Is he better offensively than Jaskin? I don't think he is.
Is he better offensively than Berglund this season on the wing? I think that's really the only top 9 spot you could argue he may produce better.

Even last season, he started the year projected as the 4C until injuries moved him up the line-up (and inept play, Roy's fade, etc). On this year's Blues he could create a log-jam that hinders Jaskin's development, or he could function in Berglund's role. But if you are targeting a player to replace Berglund, is a guy like Sobotka the prototype of what you'd want?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Jaskin will be better offensively, but Sobotka is still currently better.

 

[Frenzy31]

I don't understand the notion that Sobotka is terrible offensively. He had limited point totals because he played primarily 4th line minutes and had no PP time. The season he finally gets an increase in ice time, he shows that he can produce at a reasonable clip. He never piggybacked off of Schwartz and Tarasenko, he had great chemistry with them which is why his point totals increased.

It feels like some people are trying to devalue Sobotka to justify Armstrong's decision to not meet his contract demands. If you don't want him back, that's fine, but he's a legit top nine player on any team in the league.

I disagree with you. Berglund had his best point streak in Jan and Dec when Sobi was out and he was playing w/ Tank and JS. I think Sobi road the coat tails offensively.

I love his hustle and mocksy. I think he is a very good 3rd liner. But, he has more offensive limitations then Berglund. He doesn't control the boards very well, could be out muscled down low due to size.

I like Berglund better in our system. I think he is better offensively, especially scoring. Jaskin will likely be better goal scorer also. Sobi is better in the dzone and at creating turnovers.

Him going off to Russia, well based on our cap issues, I was actually fine with it. Ment that we didn't have to trade him. If I was in his shoes, I would have done the same thing.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sobotka got out-muscled just how Schwartz gets out-muscled...

He's a less skilled version of Schwartz, just how Berglund is a lesser version of Lehtera. Both are top 9 quality, but we need a guy like Sobotka more than Bergy.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I don't understand the notion that Sobotka is terrible offensively. He had limited point totals because he played primarily 4th line minutes and had no PP time. The season he finally gets an increase in ice time, he shows that he can produce at a reasonable clip. He never piggybacked off of Schwartz and Tarasenko, he had great chemistry with them which is why his point totals increased.

It feels like some people are trying to devalue Sobotka to justify Armstrong's decision to not meet his contract demands. If you don't want him back, that's fine, but he's a legit top nine player on any team in the league.

I think it's more of him just not being a great fit on that line. That line needs a trigger man, and frankly Sobotka just isn't that.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I wonder how much Sobotka's departure to the KHL limits his trade value. There really is no guarantee that he'd stay in the NHL since he's chosen to leave once before in response to contract negotiations. I can't imagine a team trading much at all for him unless they planned to try and re-sign him.

Sure, he can try to reassure a potential trade team that he wants to come back....but I don't think significant assets can be included if you're a GM making that gamble.

For this reason I think its very likely Sobotka DOES play with the Blues when he returns.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Yeah, I don't see his value being higher than a 3rd. Too much risk involved with his injury history, not many RFA years left, and chance of going back to KHL.

 

[izzy]

Sobokta - Stastny - Jaskin may not be ideal...but I'd easily take Sobokta over Berglund. Same benefits with more.

Berglund is a better goal scorer for Stas. Sobotka would go 4th line.

 

[Frenzy31]

Sobotka got out-muscled just how Schwartz gets out-muscled...

He's a less skilled version of Schwartz, just how Berglund is a lesser version of Lehtera. Both are top 9 quality, but we need a guy like Sobotka more than Bergy.

Way different responsibilities down low. Wingers cover the d, Centers play down low. He has overpowered down low.

Lehtera also has difficulty down low. Berglund never really has as a center. Bigger then Sobi, more physical then Lehtera (I don't mean checking, but coverage and board play). Lehtera has better vision and hands and may be faster.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Way different responsibilities down low. Wingers cover the d, Centers play down low. He has overpowered down low.

Lehtera also has difficulty down low. Berglund never really has as a center. Bigger then Sobi, more physical then Lehtera (I don't mean checking, but coverage and board play). Lehtera has better vision and hands and may be faster.

Thought you were talking on offense, not defense. Berglund's problem defensive lyrics has been foot speed against centers that he can't physically control.

 

[Dbrownss]

Berglund is a better goal scorer for Stas. Sobotka would go 4th line.

Not to be all anti Berglund.....but only on paper.

Stastny has served up cross crease passes left and right and Bergy couldn't capitalize

 

[izzy]

Not to be all anti Berglund.....but only on paper.

Stastny has served up cross crease passes left and right and Bergy couldn't capitalize

I have no doubts whatsoever that Sobotka would put up less goals than Berglund in his situation.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I have no doubts whatsoever that Sobotka would put up less goals than Berglund in his situation.

I bet it would be similar. Both wold be around 15 in a full season on a line with Stastny with limited PP time. Berglund might get a couple more.

 

[BlueOil]

I bet it would be similar. Both wold be around 15 in a full season on a line with Stastny with limited PP time. Berglund might get a couple more.

This is just wishful thinking and an attempt to overrate Sobotka and underrate Berglund in my opinion.

Sobotka has never, even when he played with Schwartz and Tarasenko, scored more than 9 goals in a season. Only has 9 goals in the KHL this year too. He's obviously not a goal scorer.

Hitch understands Sobotka very well, which means he'll largely see 4th line time barring an injury.