Blues Trade Proposals 2020-21

[sfvega]

Blues need to move Dunn for a 1st and hit on that player. The future needs it

That I agree 100% with. Dunn is a solid player whose growth has not been linear. But he's no longer a need on this team. We now have holes in the line-up and gaping holes in the pipeline. Gotta start rebuilding the prospect pool.

 

[sfvega]

He may be physically ready, but his limited production in AHL (and now KHL) don't suggest he currently has NHL-level game.

People here are always ready for our prospects, even if they themselves are not ready. Kostin should get a look at some point, but it would be foolhardy to dedicate a spot in the line-up going forward to him.

 

[Blueston]

That I agree 100% with. Dunn is a solid player whose growth has not been linear. But he's no longer a need on this team. We now have holes in the line-up and gaping holes in the pipeline. Gotta start rebuilding the prospect pool.

Would rather have similarly aged forward. Want someone who could help us next couple years.

 

[sfvega]

Would rather have similarly aged forward. Want someone who could help us next couple years.

That would also be a good route, but not sure it's in the cards before the ED. A team would have to need him enough to protect him and have an abundance of forwards, but also guys who have what we lack. It's a smaller target to hit, where as a 1st is more likely IMO.

 

[ezcreepin]

Not really liking where you are going here, lol. I thought our defense was what made us successful, and I am hoping that continues. The recent changes to our roster has me a bit nervous about that, however. As for Granlund, I just don't think we need to get any smaller or softer.

Taking a flier on Granlund, assuming no one else wants to, is not even remotely a bad idea. Tarasenko will be out and you have to add another body who can at least manage some sort of point production within the first two lines. If we trade Bozak at the supposed deadline, then at least you have someone who is able to take faceoffs when need be. He is a decent forward acquisition for literally zero assets, can score 50 points, and would fill a need of the time being.

To me, his role in Nashville was undefined and he flipped linemates pretty regularly (Turris to Duchene to Bonino), but I view our center depth much more highly than Nashville's. I mean last year Johansen was their leading scorer, and he only hit 64 points; Josi was the second leading scorer. This year, Josi was their leading scorer at 65 pts in 69 games, Forsberg being behind him with 48 pts in 63 games. Compare that with the Blues where they had ROR, Perron, Schwartz, and Schenn all hit above 50 pts (all of them either hit 60 or were quite close) in 71 games AND they were without Tarasenko for the majority of the year. So yes, I would say the Blues are more offense oriented than Nashville, which is apparent given that Nashville's top scorer has been a defenseman for the past 2 years.

There's nothing bad with saying that about the Blues. They proved they could win a cup with the recipe they have going. But you're not going to replace top tier defense lost in Petro with a guy like Granlund, let alone a forward, so I don't think it's necessary to put it in that light.

 

[simon IC]

Taking a flier on Granlund, assuming no one else wants to, is not even remotely a bad idea. Tarasenko will be out and you have to add another body who can at least manage some sort of point production within the first two lines. If we trade Bozak at the supposed deadline, then at least you have someone who is able to take faceoffs when need be. He is a decent forward acquisition for literally zero assets, can score 50 points, and would fill a need of the time being.

To me, his role in Nashville was undefined and he flipped linemates pretty regularly (Turris to Duchene to Bonino), but I view our center depth much more highly than Nashville's. I mean last year Johansen was their leading scorer, and he only hit 64 points; Josi was the second leading scorer. This year, Josi was their leading scorer at 65 pts in 69 games, Forsberg being behind him with 48 pts in 63 games. Compare that with the Blues where they had ROR, Perron, Schwartz, and Schenn all hit above 50 pts (all of them either hit 60 or were quite close) in 71 games AND they were without Tarasenko for the majority of the year. So yes, I would say the Blues are more offense oriented than Nashville, which is apparent given that Nashville's top scorer has been a defenseman for the past 2 years.

There's nothing bad with saying that about the Blues. They proved they could win a cup with the recipe they have going. But you're not going to replace top tier defense lost in Petro with a guy like Granlund, let alone a forward, so I don't think it's necessary to put it in that light.

I thought we were 1.2m over the cap right now, so I didn't know that we could sign anyone. In any case, you make a good argument, so sure. Why not? I don't really care either way anymore.

 

[MissouriMook]

Would rather have similarly aged forward. Want someone who could help us next couple years.

I agree, especially if we still see ourselves as having a 5 year window with the remaining core. Trading Dunn for a similarly aged, similarly blocked forward prospect who can potentially join the likes of Sanford, Thomas, Kyrou, and Kostin as part of the next core of forwards while increasing our ability to keep the window open now would be a good use of organizational capital.

 

[Stealth JD]

I agree, especially if we still see ourselves as having a 5 year window with the remaining core. Trading Dunn for a similarly aged, similarly blocked forward prospect who can potentially join the likes of Sanford, Thomas, Kyrou, and Kostin as part of the next core of forwards while increasing our ability to keep the window open now would be a good use of organizational capital.

wonder how many RFA-forwards pending arbitration are out there, and if their teams need a D-man more than a forward?

 

[Blueston]

wonder how many RFA-forwards pending arbitration are out there, and if their teams need a D-man more than a forward?

DeBrusk comes to mind. But isn’t just RFAs. Kempe in LA perhaps.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I thought we were 1.2m over the cap right now, so I didn't know that we could sign anyone. In any case, you make a good argument, so sure. Why not? I don't really care either way anymore.

They can be 10% over the Cap. I believe the number you cited includes paying Steen and Tarasenko about 13M. If you’re looking at Capfriendly, you are missing a salary for Dunn’s new contract added in.

The way they count LTIR on there, they’re only adding the amount the Blues are over from the 13,250,000 that Steen and Tarasenko are due. Say Dunn gets 4M (he won’t get that much) they’d still have a large margin under the cap. But they’re also still lacking a forward position in that scenario.

Bottom line, there is plenty of room to sign a guy like Granlund.

 

[WeWentBlues]

They can be 10% over the Cap. I believe the number you cited includes paying Steen and Tarasenko about 13M. If you’re looking at Capfriendly, you are missing a salary for Dunn’s new contract added in.

The way they count LTIR on there, they’re only adding the amount the Blues are over from the 13,250,000 that Steen and Tarasenko are due. Say Dunn gets 4M (he won’t get that much) they’d still have a large margin under the cap. But they’re also still lacking a forward position in that scenario.

Bottom line, there is plenty of room to sign a guy like Granlund.

Blues have 45 guys under contract with four RFAs who received qualifying offers (49 total contracts in the system). Since there is no 23 man roster during the offseason, the cap threshold is 110% of the cap ceiling (81.5M + 8.15M = 89.65M) and includes all contracts. There is some prorating that occurs for guys that are on 2-way contracts based on how many games days they played in the NHL, with 186/186 days equaling 100% of salary counting toward 2020-2021 cap.

There is an excellent article that goes into the math for the Maple Leafs.
The Maple Leafs are up against the salary cap

If you take all of the players on a contract with the Blues, we are at $99.7M (excluding our 4 RFAs). This is without the prorating piece mentioned above. The LTIR rules are also different in the offseason. Of the guys in the system, the only ones who I can recall seeing time at the NHL level last year are Kyrou, Kostin, Walker, Poganski, Mikkola, Walman.

It's anyone's guess at the actual amount of offseason cap space the Blues have to make additional moves but I am coming up with an offseason cap figure of 83-85M depending on how many days those mentioned above were active in the NHL.

tl/dr version
I agree with you @Stupendous Yappi. Blues have flexibility to sign someone and remain under the offseason cap and use LTIR to stay under the cap when the roster gets reduced to the 23-man version.

 

[ezcreepin]

I thought we were 1.2m over the cap right now, so I didn't know that we could sign anyone. In any case, you make a good argument, so sure. Why not? I don't really care either way anymore.

I mean technically yes, we're over the cap. But we'll have over 13 mil in cap space once the season starts. Although I'm not sure what percent you can be over the cap during free agency to be cap compliant

 

[Stealth JD]

I'd rather the Blues hang onto the extra cap-space and weaponize it next off-season as we saw teams like the Avs (Toews) and Canucks (Schmidt) do recently. No need to spend the money just for the sake of spending it. They should have enough talent/depth on the roster to make the playoffs without maxing-out the salary cap. And the revenue is certainly going to be a fraction of what it would be in a normal year, so I'm sure Stillman and his investors wouldn't mind reining in spending for at least one season.

 

[Blueston]

I'd rather the Blues hang onto the extra cap-space and weaponize it next off-season as we saw teams like the Avs (Toews) and Canucks (Schmidt) do recently. No need to spend the money just for the sake of spending it. They should have enough talent/depth on the roster to make the playoffs without maxing-out the salary cap. And the revenue is certainly going to be a fraction of what it would be in a normal year, so I'm sure Stillman and his investors wouldn't mind reining in spending for at least one season.

If we do wade into UFA market on one of remaining forwards would like to see us stick to 1 year deal.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If we do wade into UFA market on one of remaining forwards would like to see us stick to 1 year deal.

Hoffman on a 1-year deal is realistic. That would be ideal if we could make the cap work.

And I agree about keeping cap room for next summer, it's going to be a pivotal summer. Not only will we have flexibility with Steen and Bozak gone, and the obvious Schwartz extension to figure out and Parayko's future soon after, our goaltending situation will be something too. Is Binnington the future or do we look at someone else on the market?

 

[HighNote]

Put me in the camp that would love to bring Hoffman aboard.

 

[Ranksu]

Tough to say in this environment.

Yeah, really hard to predict now what is his value. Its buyers time to shine.

 

[kimzey59]

I mean technically yes, we're over the cap. But we'll have over 13 mil in cap space once the season starts. Although I'm not sure what percent you can be over the cap during free agency to be cap compliant

10%
For this year; 8.15 mil.
Once Dunn signs, close to half of the overage allowance will be gone(we're already at 1.2 mil over).

However; the important thing is that you still have to be Cap compliant on day 1 of the season, even if that means sending them down on paper and recalling them the next day.
That why I say you won't see Army bring in a forward until after the paperwork can be finagled. IMO The question is whether we bring that forward in on a PTO to training camp.

 

[Blueston]

10%
For this year; 8.15 mil.
Once Dunn signs, close to half of the overage allowance will be gone(we're already at 1.2 mil over).

However; the important thing is that you still have to be Cap compliant on day 1 of the season, even if that means sending them down on paper and recalling them the next day.
That why I say you won't see Army bring in a forward until after the paperwork can be finagled. IMO The question is whether we bring that forward in on a PTO to training camp.

You can have guy on ltir on day 1.

 

[Ranksu]

DeBrusk comes to mind. But isn’t just RFAs. Kempe in LA perhaps.

What I've followed LA, Kempe is real deal. Physical and have hockey IQ. He looks Blues type of player. Have to say, we need to pay a lot of to get him. Not gonna be cheap.

 

[TK 421]

I know several people have mentioned getting a 1st for Dunn and I'm wondering if that's a realistic target?

So if the return is purely picks what do you see his value as?

I was thinking 2nd in 2021 + 3rd or 4th in 2021 as more realistic.

What do you think?

 

[The Note]

I know several people have mentioned getting a 1st for Dunn and I'm wondering if that's a realistic target?

So if the return is purely picks what do you see his value as?

I was thinking 2nd in 2021 + 3rd or 4th in 2021 as more realistic.

What do you think?

There’s no shot I’m trading Dunn for a 3rd and 4th rounder. If the market is that low hold onto him.

 

[TK 421]

There’s no shot I’m trading Dunn for a 3rd and 4th rounder. If the market is that low hold onto him.

2nd in 2021 + 3rd or 4th in 2021, so I was proposing both picks coming in return for Dunn.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

2nd in 2021 + 3rd or 4th in 2021, so I was proposing both picks coming in return for Dunn.

That’s still really low from where I’m sitting.

Dunn has more value to the Blues than what that offer could bring right now.

 

[TK 421]

That’s still really low from where I’m sitting.

Dunn has more value to the Blues than what that offer could bring right now.

Ok so in that case what do you think a realistic pure picks for Dunn deal would look like?