Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part IV

[hereisnowhy]

To completely dumb it down from Easton’s well informed and effectively expressed views, I went to the lightning bruins game last night, as I’ve recently relocated to the area from STL. I was completely jealous. Tampa is damned good, obviously, but seeing it live, with the nice arena, great fan vibes and such, I just felt depressed as a Blues fan. Even the tail swishing around Amalie is way beyond good old Savvis... or whatever the name is.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

To completely dumb it down from Easton’s well informed and effectively expressed views, I went to the lightning bruins game last night, as I’ve recently relocated to the area from STL. I was completely jealous. Tampa is damned good, obviously, but seeing it live, with the nice arena, great fan vibes and such, I just felt depressed as a Blues fan. Even the tail swishing around Amalie is way beyond good old Savvis... or whatever the name is.

How u liking Tampa?
I moved down to Clearwater last January, and im liking it a lot. It oddly has quite a bit in common with the midwest.

 

[Mike Liut]

I really hope they don't trade Schenn, I think it'd be a massive mistake. Having ROR and Schenn as a one-two punch down the middle is what's going to allow us to compete with the best teams, I wouldn't want to change that just b/c the team is having a down year. I hope Schenn will want to resign.

I have not been very impressed with Schenn this year. I think he’s been part of the problem.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Easton, do you view Quenneville as being the type of coach to lead this team in the modern NHL? Or is he also past his time, just hadn't been exposed yet?

That's a tough question.

I really liked what he did with the Blackhawks. He was definitely ahead of the curve on several important trends, and he did several things well that I wished at the time the Blues were doing (involving movement in the offensive zone, transition play, and general philosophies on possession). He can be intense, but he's still a player's coach and I think his approach is generally a good fit with many modern players' personalities. He's shown he can win with talented teams and that he's not afraid of playing a more open game if he has the roster for it, but he doesn't seem married to that approach and he's had good success with less talented teams as well. He didn't win Cups with anyone else, but he had consistently good regular season success and won at least one playoff round much more often than not.

Could he replicate his historical success here? Maybe. It might be a bit unfair given that the current Blues roster isn't at the same level the Blackhawks roster was at for much of his tenure there, but I think he's likely to get more out of this roster than Yeo or Hitchcock could.

I think he's a good coach from a tactical standpoint and I'm not particularly worried about him handling that aspect of the job. He might not be pushing the envelope forward at this point, but he's not buried in the past, either. The Blackhawks didn't have to innovate much as the years went on, so was that him becoming static, or simply being smart by not screwing up a good thing that he had created? Impossible to say. I don't really consider him a coach with a "track meet" personality, not to imply that's the best approach for this current Blues team, but maybe he shows us something new with his next team. Even if he doesn't, his philosophies should still be good enough.

From a personality fit standpoint, the Blues psyche is pretty screwed up at the moment, and I can't say with any confidence what sort of guidance will be needed to sort that mess out since I'm not witnessing what's happening in the room firsthand. Are the Blues players as a team mature enough to respond to someone who is willing to give them a longer leash? If not, could he shorten the leash if necessary? I'm not even going to bother speculating how those dynamics might play out.

Overall, I think I would be cautiously excited if the Blues brought him on board. He might not be cutting edge, but I don't think there's a better "proven" alternative out there, and I can't imagine Armstrong would be thrilled to gamble the sweet spot of this core's competitive range on an unproven candidate. The Blues could certainly do a lot worse.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

JR with another article citing locker room issues and wondering whether the players are really trying. He also mentioned #teamsteen and #teampetro.

 

[Stealth JD]

JR with another article citing locker room issues and wondering whether the players are really trying. He also mentioned #teamsteen and #teampetro.

He states that Steen would be tough to trade because of his term remaining and NTC but speculates that one of he, Petro or Tarasenko should probably be traded. If Steen is unmovable then the Blues are left in an unenviable position of possible having to decide between Petro and Tarasenko who should be traded. Yikes.

 

[EastonBlues22]

He states that Steen would be tough to trade because of his term remaining and NTC but speculates that one of he, Petro or Tarasenko should probably be traded. If Steen is unmovable then the Blues are left in an unenviable position of possible having to decide between Petro and Tarasenko who should be traded. Yikes.

JR said that?

Well, I'm convinced.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

JR said that?

Well, I'm convinced.

To my knowledge, JR has more access to this team than anyone on this board. He also has done a great job at asking the tough questions post-games this season, trying to hold players accountable.

 

[Stealth JD]

If it's true that the Blues have a locker-room issue and one of Steen, Petro or Tarasenko must go to restore cohesion that's a problem. Army would have to package an asset with Steen, if you're to believe his conjecture about having no desirability in a trade, which hampers the depth. Or you sabotage the roster by trading your premiere talent, but get back some nice pieces for a rebuild. Hypothetically if Buffalo were to offer the Blues 1st back, and another one of the two 1sts that they have for either Petro or Tarasenko, Army could certainly change the dynamic of the club and accept a minor rebuild.

 

[hereisnowhy]

How u liking Tampa?
I moved down to Clearwater last January, and im liking it a lot. It oddly has quite a bit in common with the midwest.

Take my son fishing at Sand Key Park a lot. Job market is rough for my line of work. Dig wearing shorts and T-shirts in December, though.

 

[EastonBlues22]

To my knowledge, JR has more access to this team than anyone on this board. He also has done a great job at asking the tough questions post-games this season, trying to hold players accountable.

And that makes him, what, some sort of hockey authority?

His access doesn't mean he has any insight into what this team "needs" from a roster management standpoint, or even that he has any sort of insight at all related to anything that happens on the ice.

He's a journalist, and notably one without any sort of background in the sport. Nothing more, and nothing less. You can trust him to report something that he's been told, but any of his own opinions should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

And that makes him, what, some sort of hockey authority?

His access doesn't mean he has any insight into what this team "needs" from a roster management standpoint, or even that he has any sort of insight at all related to anything that happens on the ice.

He's a journalist, and notably one without any sort of background in the sport. Nothing more, and nothing less. You can trust him to report something that he's been told, but any of his own opinions should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

What does JR's lack of playing expierence have to do with reporting suspected locker room issues?

 

[TK 421]

He states that Steen would be tough to trade because of his term remaining and NTC but speculates that one of he, Petro or Tarasenko should probably be traded. If Steen is unmovable then the Blues are left in an unenviable position of possible having to decide between Petro and Tarasenko who should be traded. Yikes.

I'm going to see J.R. on Monday so I'll ask him straight up what he bases that on.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

And that makes him, what, some sort of hockey authority?

His access doesn't mean he has any insight into what this team "needs" from a roster management standpoint, or even that he has any sort of insight at all related to anything that happens on the ice.

He's a journalist, and notably one without any sort of background in the sport. Nothing more, and nothing less. You can trust him to report something that he's been told, but any of his own opinions should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

I do think he hears some things off the record from team reps at times (not this I’d wager). But it can still be informative to see what messaging the team try to do through him. Not that it’s all true. But it can still tell us something to know what the front office is choosing to leak.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Armstrong should be walked out of the building if he would pick trading Tarasenko or Pietrangelo over Steen. Someone would be willing to take Steen. If Steen isn’t willing to waive, then you make him miserable and bench him. If this is true, and it’s adding smoke to already reported rumors over the last few years, then Steen needs to be the one traded and it needs to happen immediately.

 

[EastonBlues22]

What does JR's lack of playing expierence have to do with reporting suspected locker room issues?

As I said, it has to do with him having any sort of insight into what takes place on the ice, or what the Blues should do from a roster management standpoint...i.e., him speculating that the Blues should trade one of Pietrangelo or Tarasenko to "fix" things. Or Steen, but he also says that Steen is really hard to trade, so he's essentially advocating for one of the other two.

Beyond that, he's clearly not reporting facts with this "suspected" locker room issue, but people are inevitably going to misinterpret it as such simply because he wrote it. His readers need to understand when he's speaking with some sort of authority and when he's not if they want to be discerning. For this, he's not.

 

[Stealth JD]

The thought of any of Rutherford’s speculation on the Steen/Tarasenko/Petro situation being true is crazy and terrifying. But if tonight shows us anything it’s that Steen and Tarasenko are absolutely not the problem and Petro is a loser who single-handedly has destroyed this season. Tonight’s shutout shows the D is better without the Captain.

 

[Dbrownss]

What am I missing here. JR has just said some of the guys have ragged on Tarasenko for effort. He directly asked and quoted Pietrangelo on the whole Steen/Petro thing. Unless I missed something he said yea... it's a small thing but it's not the problem.


I just see JR constantly asked over and over on his opinion as to what the Blues might do. He's said If you trade Pietrangelo or Tarasenko....you better be damn sure you know what your doing.

 

[HighNote]

The thought of any of Rutherford’s speculation on the Steen/Tarasenko/Petro situation being true is crazy and terrifying. But if tonight shows us anything it’s that Steen and Tarasenko are absolutely not the problem and Petro is a loser who single-handedly has destroyed this season. Tonight’s shutout shows the D is better without the Captain.

Yikes.

 

[Renard]

I have hopes for Zach Sanford, but he really struggled in last night's game in Winnipeg. And I'm talking about defensively. He failed at least three times to clear the defensive zone when he had the puck on his stick, and appeared to have adequate time and space to do so.

And of course he hasn't been lighting the lamp either.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I have hopes for Zach Sanford, but he really struggled in last night's game in Winnipeg. And I'm talking about defensively. He failed at least three times to clear the defensive zone when he had the puck on his stick, and appeared to have adequate time and space to do so.

And of course he hasn't been lighting the lamp either.

He will get there.

We seem to be so short focused on our players.

I think he needs about 10 more pound of muscle and he won't get knocked off the puck as much. As to decision making, this can be fixed if they spend time with him.

 

[HolyJumpin]

I really think the Blues don't need to make a huge facelift this season. Removing anyone from the core players is going to set us back more than help us. Wait until the offseason and see if we can't move Bozak or Perron if we're really looking for a shakeup.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I think this is similar to a TBL situation. Do a quick re-tool, grab another high pick and come back with a vengeance.

No big moves need to be made outside of finding more CONSISTENT goaltending. It doesn’t matter if Allen gets 15 shutouts if he lets in 4+ goals in 30 other games; even if we went .500 in the games without a shutout, we’d still end up losing more than we win with a record of 40-42.

 

[Spektre]

As much as everyone doesn’t want to watch another rebuild happen it could be the best alternative for this organization.

Alternative #1

Try to salvage this season by making trades. Is this really feasible? The Blues have had a goalie situation for what seems like forever. It’s true Allen has played better as of late but so what. He’s a mental merry-go-round of results. Expecting Allen to continue playing well one would have to not put any credence into his entire career. Hockey trades would be bringing in established NHL players. The Blues have some trade chips like Schwartz, Schenn, Tarasenko, and possibly Pietrangelo. There’s zero chance they part ways with O’Reilly. Some of the kids have value but the Blues don’t have the cap space to trade futures for NHL players.

I don’t see how trading Schenn, Schwartz, Tarasenko, and Pietrangelo for other NHL players will improve the team. What team is going to give up better players in return? Even if the Blues pulled off the impossible and somehow upgraded the roster via trades they’re still stuck with Allen. Trading Allen would most likely be a lateral or marginal upgrade like Howard.

So let’s pretend the Blues trade Tarasenko and Schenn for defense and a forward. They trade Allen for another non-franchise goalie. You’re jumbling up players again and relying on Berube to make the playoffs. Does anyone see that actually working out? I don’t.

Alternative #2.

Make marginal trades and ride out the season. Trade players like Maroon, Bozak, Gunnarsson, Steen, and Dunn. I know the left side is weak but Dunn is part of the problem. Does the organization see him as part of the solution in strengthening the left side long term? I doubt it. He has offensive upside but he can’t be a defensive liability. These trades are not going to improve the roster but it could clear some cap space and roster positions going forward, especially with Bozak and Steen.

If they go this route they could possibly add some other veterans in the offseason. Barring a unexpected huge splash in signing a goalie like Bobrovsky it’s still the same roster. They bring in yet another coach to start all over with this same group. I don’t see Quenneville coming here. If he wanted to be here I think it would have already happened. Is yet another coach going to accomplish success that other coaches can’t attain with this roster? If your expecting that to happen I’d have to question why. I think it’s on the players at this point. I’ll put it another way. No matter what coach is brought into this organization I don’t believe winning the Cup is remotely realistic with this roster.

Alternative #3

Blow it up. This is probably the least likely to happen but could actually be the fastest way to long term success. Trade the pieces that will return the best futures package and plan on picking in the top 10, but top 5 preferred. Find a solution to the goalie position. The organization isn’t going to trade all of Pietrangelo, Schwartz, Schenn, & Tarasenko. How many 1st round picks could some return and maybe more importantly from which team. Trading those names should result in top 10 picks and no higher than 15th. Knowing that could make trading them for the right package more difficult.

The obvious drawbacks to this move is less revenue for the organization this year and very possibly next year. The upside would be an influx of cost controlled, and hopefully some cornerstone pieces of the next core. There’s a 100 different variables going this route and it’s a completely different direction from the current one. The current direction hasn’t worked out so well either. I’d say it’s been a complete failure.

I can’t think of another alternative. With the complete failure of this year, after everything the organization has thrown at it, it just feels like a couple major pieces are going to get traded.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Dunn, like Parayko and any other player is goin through growing pains in an extended and more exposed role. Two weeks ago everyone was scared that Parayko “had stopped progressing and hadn’t looked like a 1 or even 2D”, and then he had two games and everyone is ready to win his praises again. Let the players make mistakes learning the ropes - it’s the first year in a long time when we can actually afford to do that. I think our recent years have demanded that players don’t get a shot until they’ve already proven themselves, but now that we aren’t really in the playoff hunt we should be developing players for their roles for the future.