Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part II

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Vincenzo Arelliti

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I live in Finland, and all I have is your knowledge about Thomas being ready to NHL.. is he really? Ready to play 82 games in central division, in a top 9 role? Just curious, I respect all the info I get from you guys. I watch lot of blues games, but this inside info is what I’m really missing.. and I love getting from you guys!! And I’m so pumped about next season, army has been on on fire!!!
Thomas' defensive game is NHL-quality, and he is ready to handle the responsibilities at center, according to both the Blues organization, and a fan like me that watched him in London and then in Hamilton last year. He can take faceoffs, play positionally, has the work ethic to move up and down the ice for a 200 foot game, and he has the knowledge and sense to transition up and down the ice. Armstrong has said that he even envisions Thomas centering O'Reilly and Tarasenko by the end of the year, and London traded Thomas because they believed that there was no way that he would be returning to Juniors (which would be his only option if he were to be sent down from the NHL). By all accounts, Thomas will be on the opening night roster, and he is ready for a top-9 center role in the NHL.
 

bleedblue1223

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Was I the only one that caught the comment from Armstrong’s where he inferred that Buffalo was initially asking for two of the top prospects?
Someone told me that they heard from someone that Buffalo wanted Fabbri, but Army was able to get them to agree to a 1st instead. I really can't say how legit it is, but it seems reasonable. I think that's the only way the deal didn't happen earlier. Whether it was a Fabbri/Dunn or another top prospect, it should be pretty clear that the hang-up was on either a player/prospect vs a 1st. Army won that one in the end.
 

Dbrownss

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Was I the only one that caught the comment from Armstrong’s where he inferred that Buffalo was initially asking for two of the top prospects?
I remember hearing this prior to this artical. He wasnt specific to what team but the list wasn't very big.
 

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Thomas' defensive game is NHL-quality, and he is ready to handle the responsibilities at center, according to both the Blues organization, and a fan like me that watched him in London and then in Hamilton last year. He can take faceoffs, play positionally, has the work ethic to move up and down the ice for a 200 foot game, and he has the knowledge and sense to transition up and down the ice. Armstrong has said that he even envisions Thomas centering O'Reilly and Tarasenko by the end of the year, and London traded Thomas because they believed that there was no way that he would be returning to Juniors (which would be his only option if he were to be sent down from the NHL). By all accounts, Thomas will be on the opening night roster, and he is ready for a top-9 center role in the NHL.

Bolded: Army is exaggerated in here saying he'll put NHL best faceoff guy in the wing and putting rookie taking faceoffs.

blues_hitchcock_hockey_221799076.jpg
 

Stealth JD

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top-3 GMs? Armstrong is closer to 10 than 5 I'd guess.
Cup winners go straight to the head of the line in my rankings, and guys like Yzerman and Wilson who have had just as much success, if not more, are also higher.
 
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Dbrownss

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Bolded: Army is exaggerated in here saying he'll put NHL best faceoff guy in the wing and putting rookie taking faceoffs.

blues_hitchcock_hockey_221799076.jpg
You do know they can switch right? It's also a good idea to have a LHS/RHS combo for faceoffs
 

Reality Czech

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top-3 GMs? Armstrong is closer to 10 than 5 I'd guess.
Cup winners go straight to the head of the line in my rankings, and guys like Yzerman and Wilson who have had just as much success, if not more, are also higher.

Not sure where the top 3 came from, but just in case he misquoted me by mistake I mentioned "top 3rd" of the league meaning top 1/3. When I tried to look it up, he was basically around #10 give or take which sounds about right to me. Naturally the guys you mentioned are at the top, with a few others like Poile, Rutherford, etc.

Since it was brought up, I tried to find the articles I read awhile back. Basically I just googled "best NHL GMs" to see what lists came up, so you guys could easily find the same ones if interested. It's pretty clear that the Blues will need more success on the ice for Army to move up much higher on these lists, which is fair. But I get the sense he is well respected around the league, and deserves credit for getting us to where we are right now.
 

Stealth JD

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yeah...i started looking back through the thread for the top-3 reference and realized nobody was actually of that opinion. :laugh: seems most folks are in agreement with the ~ 10 ranking for GMDA.
 

Dbrownss

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I dont know where I'd rank army but he's done a good to great job depending on how some of the prospects work out.


He deffinently gets a tip of the hat for the Tavares fall out. He had plans A,B and C. Plan A fell through so he went with B and C. While everyone was fawning over Wilson's cap clearance moves....his only plan fell through and he's done nothing to add to the team.
 
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A Real Barn Burner

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yeah...i started looking back through the thread for the top-3 reference and realized nobody was actually of that opinion. :laugh: seems most folks are in agreement with the ~ 10 ranking for GMDA.

Lol that was me I meant too 1/3 rd but put top three edited thanks
 

TheDizee

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watch the opening 3 minutes hull loves playing for keenan!
 

Ranksu

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You do know they can switch right? It's also a good idea to have a LHS/RHS combo for faceoffs

ROR did say pretty clearly he likes to play Center and where he feels he's best of. Tho he mentioned If coach tell him to play winger then he'll do it. Idk, what Thomas prefer, but him play too LW'er is natural? I only remember Thomas played RW spot at last camp. Don't know what position he did play at Juniors?

What comes to right or left handedless combos. Do we need If ROR is The NHL best faceoffs Guy?
 
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Dbrownss

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ROR did say pretty clearly he likes to play Center and where he feels he's best of. Tho he mentioned If coach tell him to play winger then he'll do it. Idk, what Thomas prefer, but him play too LW'er is natural? I only remember Thomas played RW spot at last camp. Don't know what position he did play at Juniors?

What comes to right or left handedless combos. Do we need If ROR is The NHL best faceoffs Guy?
Thomas always been a center from what I've seen. Though I doubt cry about any position if he's on the NHL. It could have been Army just being a fanboy too. I wouldnt look for it to really matter in the end.

The LH/RH thing has to do with which side of the ice they are taking the faceoff
 

Ranksu

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Thomas always been a center from what I've seen. Though I doubt cry about any position if he's on the NHL. It could have been Army just being a fanboy too. I wouldnt look for it to really matter in the end.

The LH/RH thing has to do with which side of the ice they are taking the faceoff

Yes, Army was exaggrated.

I know what advance you get If you've both handedless forwards in same line, but I doubt Thomas is his rookie season over 50% at faceoffs.

Then If you have Bozak and ROR at same line its really dominant and clearly advance, but would you put Bozak - ROR in in the same line just for having them upperhand just in FO dot and same Time asking your Center to play spot which isn't best for him and for team.
 

Dbrownss

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Yes, Army was exaggrated.

I know what advance you get If you've both handedless forwards in same line, but I doubt Thomas is his rookie season over 50% at faceoffs.

Then If you have Bozak and ROR at same line its really dominant and clearly advance, but would you put Bozak - ROR in in the same line just for having them upperhand just in FO dot and same Time asking your Center to play spot which isn't best for him.
I think all of our centers will be good in the dots this year. ROR and Bozak are going to take them to school in practice :laugh:.

One reason I can see them using Thomas at center is the speed and offense he generates. No other centers on the Blues have his hands and vision.

This is such a breath of fresh air to discuss as opposed to what winger we have to force to be a center
 

Ranksu

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I think all of our centers will be good in the dots this year. ROR and Bozak are going to take them to school in practice :laugh:.

One reason I can see them using Thomas at center is the speed and offense he generates. No other centers on the Blues have his hands and vision.

This is such a breath of fresh air to discuss as opposed to what winger we have to force to be a center
Ofc Thomas is right choice for Center, but not in same line where is ROR or Bozak. Maybe with Schenn and Schwartz.
 

TruBlu

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His only issue is jumping the gun on extensions. He signed Lehtera and Allen to early thinking they would improve. He's usually more cautious, which is weird. He kind of jumped the gun on Sobotka without knowing what he'd look like on his return. Those were bad deals. Berglund's was bad due to term, so we'll have to see how he plays when he's older, but we don't have to worry about that anymore.

I wouldn't say he's a top 3, but he's a top 10 GM IMO.
Was Berglund's deal bad? DA was able to flip him in a deal to get a 1C. I think it is more likely that the contract isn't as bad on its face. When you look at it in terms of stand alone value, it wasn't bad for a team who needed it. DA knew he'd be able to move that contract when the need came. I think it is more likely we as fans think only in terms of our team and don't see the grand scheme of things.
 

Blanick

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Sep 20, 2011
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I think he'll start on the 4th behind those guys with a 4 line system.

I could see this. I am warming up to the idea of running a 4 line system, keeping minutes low and legs fresh throughout games. I would try to keep every line under 20 minutes rolling all 4 lines and if a line is particularly on that night, give them a few extra.
 

Brian39

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Was Berglund's deal bad? DA was able to flip him in a deal to get a 1C. I think it is more likely that the contract isn't as bad on its face. When you look at it in terms of stand alone value, it wasn't bad for a team who needed it. DA knew he'd be able to move that contract when the need came. I think it is more likely we as fans think only in terms of our team and don't see the grand scheme of things.

I've been a huge critic of that contract, largely because I thought it would be difficult to move. I didn't mind the early years, but I had concerns about the back half. Credit where credit is due, I was incorrect about that. There is no indication that we had to give up any extra asset to shed that contract. The worst thing you could say is that we had to eat ROR's bonus, but I think that was going to be a part of any deal not involving Kyrou/Thomas/Dunn. There is a decent argument to be made that Bergie (contract and all) was a positive asset for that trade.
 

bleedblue1223

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Was Berglund's deal bad? DA was able to flip him in a deal to get a 1C. I think it is more likely that the contract isn't as bad on its face. When you look at it in terms of stand alone value, it wasn't bad for a team who needed it. DA knew he'd be able to move that contract when the need came. I think it is more likely we as fans think only in terms of our team and don't see the grand scheme of things.
In the same sense, Lehtera's contract wasn't that bad because we still got Schenn out of it. We won't know if Bergy's deal will be bad until the end of it, but that's not our concern anymore, so who cares. Just need to deal with Allen now. Luckily Army's few bad deals aren't on big ticket items either.
 

Mike Liut

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Need to make a deep run this year to convince Panarin to come here. I’m not buying that big city thing. Show him the money and a good team, and he’ll come. Especially with the Tarasenko connection. Winning will solve a lot of problems. Will go a long way in the Petro and Schenn extensions too. Can we even afford Panarin with the Schenn and Petro extensions? With the expiring contract of JBo and would need to move Gunnar and Steen and then possibly losing Perron to Seattle in 2 years and maybe its possible.
 

A Real Barn Burner

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Need to make a deep run this year to convince Panarin to come here. I’m not buying that big city thing. Show him the money and a good team, and he’ll come. Especially with the Tarasenko connection. Winning will solve a lot of problems. Will go a long way in the Petro and Schenn extensions too. Can we even afford Panarin with the Schenn and Petro extensions? With the expiring contract of JBo and would need to move Gunnar and Steen and then possibly losing Perron to Seattle in 2 years and maybe its possible.

It looks like we will go into this season near the cap. Going off that as a Base.

8.3 mil off the books with Gunn and Jaybo; if DA let’s some of our prospects fill the gap (Walkman and Mikkola at 650 k x 2 = 1.3 mil) it would be 7 mil savings.

No idea how much Maroon would eat into that if he signs this year then needs to be extended let’s assume he isn’t for best case of signing Panarin.

Burtozzo come of the books as well but he will be replaced with a UFA or schmaltz at nearly same cost.

Pie could get anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 mil dollar raise. On outside 3 mil but I doubt it. But assume 3 mil worst case 1.5 best case.

Schenn? If he puts up another 70 point season do you lock him up before he does a third? It also possible teams will have more footage of him and Schwartz and he can go back to his Philly production. Just to hard to tell. If he puts up the same production as ROR id assume he would want at least that amount even if he isn’t as good of a two way player. That would be 2.1 mil however, the cap has went up a lot since ROR signed. Have to take that in to account as well so 3 mil worst case and 2 mil best case.

Worst case scenario maybe 6 mil and best case 3.5 mil.

Along with Schenn and Petro due two years from now you have Vince Dunn as well. If he continues to progress like we hope it might be a little bit. Hard to tell what Army will do. Army has gone for the bridge deal (I think) with every RFA not named Tarasenko, Payarko, and Pietrangelo. It doesn’t have to be huge since he can bridge him and I’d think that would be likely considering the raises to Pie and Schenn. So bridge Dunn at 2.5 mil to 3 mil.

Then you have Fabbri, Barbshev, Jaskin, Shosnikov, Sundqvist, Sanford, Blais, and Rienke all RFA.

Fabbri is the only one I think that could demand any type of huge raise but just to many variables with his situation. If he has a great season do you lock him up on a Parkyo/Schwartz deal around five years (two RFA three UFA)? If you bridge him only paying for 2 RFA years your looking to trade him or give him up to Vegas imho. So giving him a Schwartz contract put you at a 4.5 mil raise he has less years of production but at same time cap has went up since Schwartz signed.


——————————————Best Case—————- Worst Case
Pie and Schenn:—————- 3.5 mil.———————6 mil
Dunn:———————————2 mil.———————- 2.5 mil
Fabri:———————————4.5 mil.———————4.5 mil.
Cost:———————————-9 mil.————————13 mil.

Let’s hope the salary cap goes up 2 mil over the next year 2 years lol.

Panarin as a UFA of course is going to get paid (9 mil?). Even with best case scenario you would have to trade Steen even without Maroon in the mix. I guess if Fabri does poorly then you have a lot more room but I’m hoping no one is hoping for that.

As you brought up it causes all types of trouble with the expansion draft. So if Fabri does well you can trade Steen and Fabri for an expansion exempt prospect and sign Panarin? If Fabri doesn’t do well just trade Steen.

I might not be the best person to analyze probably way off but was bored so gave it a shot.
 
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