Proposal: Blues Blow up it Up

[Taluss]

he should be back in the next 10 days, he participated in his first full team practice since the injury at Thursdays morning skate, and was NOT wearing a non-contact jersey which is great to see

Good to hear!

 

[Evocable Manager]

All we need is a coach who isn't f***ing chicken little, to just waive Bouwmeester and an upgrade in net (or find internal solutions).

No need to blow up anything.

 

[Neutrinos]

Nylander is not even worthy as s starting point for Pietro

And why would Gardiner take a ****ty contract like that, he wants max payment, he wants his retierment contract now (he will get it from Chia)

Pietrangelo is 28 and a UFA after next season. What exactly do you think he'd return in trade that's above and beyond Nylander?

St. Louis would be wise to move him now, and Nylander would be a very solid piece for their future

 

[EastonBlues22]

Pietrangelo is 28 and a UFA after next season. What exactly do you think he'd return in trade that's above and beyond Nylander?

St. Louis would be wise to move him now, and Nylander would be a very solid piece for their future

It would be far wiser for the Blues to simply re-sign Pietrangelo.

 

[Neutrinos]

It would be far wiser for the Blues to simply re-sign Pietrangelo.

Do you really think it's "far wiser" for the Blues to sign him to a 7 year, 65 million dollar contract?

Because history has shown us that it seldom ends well when teams spend big money on a 30-something free-agent

 

[EastonBlues22]

Do you really think it's "far wiser" for the Blues to sign him to a 7 year, 65 million dollar contract?

Because history has shown us that it seldom ends well when teams spend big money on a 30-something free-agent

Well, that contract you just fabricated would currently make him the highest paid defenseman in the game by AAV...a contract I don't think he's earned, nor do I think that it would take the Blues offering that for him to re-sign here. How do you justify basing this discussion on those numbers?

There's no real reason to believe that Pietrangelo can't perform at a high level into his mid 30s. He plays a style of game that ages well, and very talented players tend to have generous tails to their production curves. A seven year contract only takes him to age 36. That's perfectly fine. He likely won't be as good at the end of the contract as he is now, but that doesn't mean it isn't money well spent.

I'd like to know why you think the organization would be better off dumping their upper end #1 defenseman, a guy they simply can't replace, and instead investing most of that money in a RWer who wouldn't currently be one of the best four forwards on the Blues.

 

[TOGuy14]

Damien Cox
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John Tavares is playing so well it does make you think; why not sign Marner and Nylander, and trade Matthews for a whole pile of goodies? Not saying they would, but it’s not such a crazy idea any more. And that’s because of JT.

LOL Damien Cox is an idiot and anyone that lives in Canada and has ever heard or read anything he put out knows as much.

It was embarrassing when HNIC used to trot him out beside Friedman during the Hot Stove segments.

 

[Neutrinos]

Well, that contract you just fabricated would currently make him the highest paid defenseman in the game by AAV...a contract I don't think he's earned, nor do I think that it would take the Blues offering that for him to re-sign here. How do you justify basing this discussion on those numbers?

There's no real reason to believe that Pietrangelo can't perform at a high level into his mid 30s. He plays a style of game that ages well, and very talented players tend to have generous tails to their production curves. A seven year contract only takes him to age 36. That's perfectly fine. He likely won't be as good at the end of the contract as he is now, but that doesn't mean it isn't money well spent.

I'd like to know why you think the organization would be better off dumping their upper end #1 defenseman, a guy they simply can't replace, and instead investing most of that money in a RWer who wouldn't currently be one of the best four forwards on the Blues.

It works out to 9.2 million a year

Doughty will be making 11. OEL just signed for 8.25. Carlson is at 8

I used the OEL as a basis, then added a million predicated on the cap going up


As I said already:

History has shown us that it seldom ends well when teams spend big money on a 30-something free-agent


The real question is: Will the Blues be legit contenders in the coming years with AP? If the answer is 'no', then I think he should be moved

 

[EastonBlues22]

It works out to 9.2 million a year

Doughty will be making 11. OEL just signed for 8.25. Carlson is at 8

I used the OEL as a basis, then added a million predicated on the cap going up


As I said already:

History has shown us that it seldom ends well when teams spend big money on a 30-something free-agent


The real question is: Will the Blues be legit contenders in the coming years with AP? If the answer is 'no', then I think he should be moved

Second highest paid defenseman, then. It's still extremely unlikely that's what he would be getting if he re-signed with the Blues.

Do you feel like you have a pretty good read on how competitive the Blues will be over the next 7 years with Pietrangelo? How do you even begin to forecast that when there's so much roster turnover every year, and it's pretty likely the Blues will be changing coaches in the near future.

IMO, a better series of questions would be:
-Are the Blues more likely to be in a competitive window during that span or not? It think they are pretty clearly positioned to be competitive, their current struggles notwithstanding.

-Does having Pietrangelo on the team fill a need commensurate with the contract he would be earning? Again, it seems pretty clear to me that he would.

-Is the contract it would take to retain Pietrangelo something the Blues can practically afford? We're completely speculating at this point without hard numbers to consider, but the Blues currently seem to be well positioned to afford him.

-Is there a better alternative available? Again, we're largely dealing with unknowns here, but I feel pretty confident saying there isn't a better defenseman available for the Blues to spend that money on. A goalie isn't worth spending that money on. There *might* be a forward available depending on what happens with guys like Taylor Hall, but the chances are pretty good that most (if not all) of the premium talents don't make it to free agency. Regarding Nylander specifically since that was your proposal, you're going to have to work hard to convince me that Nylander at $7-ish million would better position this team to win than paying Pietrangelo $8-ish million (or even $9-ish million).

 

[VoidCreature]

No chance the Devils move a first round pick right now, never mind two of them.

 

[Neutrinos]

Second highest paid defenseman, then. It's still extremely unlikely that's what he would be getting if he re-signed with the Blues.

Do you feel like you have a pretty good read on how competitive the Blues will be over the next 7 years with Pietrangelo? How do you even begin to forecast that when there's so much roster turnover every year, and it's pretty likely the Blues will be changing coaches in the near future.

IMO, a better series of questions would be:
-Are the Blues more likely to be in a competitive window during that span or not? It think they are pretty clearly positioned to be competitive, their current struggles notwithstanding.

-Does having Pietrangelo on the team fill a need commensurate with the contract he would be earning? Again, it seems pretty clear to me that he would.

-Is the contract it would take to retain Pietrangelo something the Blues can practically afford? We're completely speculating at this point without hard numbers to consider, but the Blues currently seem to be well positioned to afford him.

-Is there a better alternative available? Again, we're largely dealing with unknowns here, but I feel pretty confident saying there isn't a better defenseman available for the Blues to spend that money on. A goalie isn't worth spending that money on. There *might* be a forward available depending on what happens with guys like Taylor Hall, but the chances are pretty good that most (if not all) of the premium talents don't make it to free agency. Regarding Nylander specifically since that was your proposal, you're going to have to work hard to convince me that Nylander at $7-ish million would better position this team to win than paying Pietrangelo $8-ish million (or even $9-ish million).

I'm of the opinion that it's not enough just to be competitive. If your goal as an organization is to make the playoffs and get ousted in the 1st or 2nd round, then by all means, re-up AP

Personally, I think if you're not a legit contender, you're better off rebuilding until you are


I never proposed a Pietrangelo for Nylander swap. I had asked what the poster would expect in return "above and beyond" Nylander

Meaning that given their respective ages and talent level, an AP for Nylander swap is about right value-wise, however, that's not to say the fit would be right from St. Louis' perspective

 

[JThorne]

How is Nylander signing for 6.5 in STL but not in Toronto?

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm of the opinion that it's not enough just to be competitive. If your goal as an organization is to make the playoffs and get ousted in the 1st or 2nd round, then by all means, re-up AP

Personally, I think if you're not a legit contender, you're better off rebuilding until you are


I never proposed a Pietrangelo for Nylander swap. I had asked what the poster would expect in return "above and beyond" Nylander

Meaning that given their respective ages and talent level, an AP for Nylander swap is about right value-wise, however, that's not to say the fit would be right from St. Louis' perspective

The bolded is a great example of a false dilemma. There's absolutely nothing mutually exclusive about having success in the playoffs and re-signing Pietrangelo.

In fact, most would consider having a true #1 defenseman borderline mandatory for being considered a legitimate contender. Stating that retaining the one you have is somehow building towards a goal of mediocrity is an absurd notion on the face of it.

Until someone can come up with a "fit" involving Pietrangelo that makes the Blues more competitive instead of less, there's not really much point to discussing moving him. The better option will continue to be to simply re-sign Pietrangelo.

 

[Mike Liut]

How is Nylander signing for 6.5 in STL but not in Toronto?

He’s a big fan of the Arch

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

I remember getting into an argument with a ridiculous blues fan saying AP was gonna get the doughty deal and lead the blues to the Stanley cup. Seems legit.

 

[stl76]

I feel dumber having read this thread.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

How is Nylander signing for 6.5 in STL but not in Toronto?

Better Swedish meatballs, let’s make this happen. The Leafs are one solid upgrade away on D from being strong cup contenders.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Came in here expecting to read some goalie trades seeing as that’s literally the biggest problem in STL! Yet the OP has none. Wtf

 

[simon IC]

Sorry, we have enough forwards, and our team is soft enough as it is. We don't want or need Nylander, especially as he would likely want to be our highest paid player. The Blues aren't blowing anything up. The biggest move I see them making is trading Jake Allen.

 

[Colt55]

1st Trade Leafs
Pietrangelo, Alex 6.5
Schwartz, Jaden 5.35
Mikkola, Niko

Nylander, William Extends 6yrs 6.5m
Gardiner, Jake (Extends 4yrs 5.5 AAV)
1st rd pick '19

#2 Trade New Jersey
Schenn, Brayden 5.125 two yrs
Steen, Alexander 5.75 34 and 3 more yrs
Schmaltz, Jordan
2nd '19

Zacha, Pavel (undervalued)
Severson, Damon 4.16
1st rd pick 19 and 1st rd pick in 21

Only thing that needs to be said is why. Why would they answer that

 

[67Blues]

How is Nylander signing for 6.5 in STL but not in Toronto?

He was promised a string of Imo's commercials.

 

[Colt55]

Nylander for Parayko with some tweaks and you very much have my attention.

Your not getting parayko. If the poster was a blues fan I apologize. Both these deals suck.

 

[Colt55]

I think St.Louis should try a new goaltender and coach first, however if they decide to go the rebuild route, here you go;

Nylander
Liljegren
Zaitsev
1st

for Pietrangelo and some kind of forward help, ideally at LW.

Yeah no thanks your not getting petro or parayko.

 

[NYR94]

Hire Coach Q.

 

[Colt55]

Leafs say no to 1
Blues say no to 2

How about:

Pietrangelo, J.Bo (50% retained) and Fabbri to Toronto for Kadri, Nylander and Gardiner (Do leafs add a 2nd?)

Steen, Allen, Kyrou and a 2nd for Panarin and Bobrovsky

Thomas and Perron for Pesce and Williams (STL needs to add here, but not sure what --- 2020 1st?)

Panarin/ROR/Tarasenko
Schwartz/Schenn/Nylander
Maroon/Kadri/Williams
Sanford/Barbashev/Soshnikov

Edmundson/Parayko
Gardiner/Pesce
Gunner/Schmaltz

Bobrovsky

Likely that they can resign both Bob and Panarin together; quite a few Russians in STL, and Panarin/Tarasenko are good friends. Blues lose Pietrangelo but add Gardiner and Pesce so their defensive group while worse is still solid; they add a true #1 goaltender and their offensive depth gets a lot better.

Toronto gets a #1RD, and a young (Ontario boy) winger to replace Nylander.

Carolina gets offensive help, and a young C who has a TON of promise to further develop their under 24 offensive corps.

Columbus gets stop-gap replacements for Panarin and Bob in Steen and Allen, and also get a blue chip prospect and a pick.

Wow, these are brutal you just traded a 1c rookie your top 6 prospect a top 6 lw your top 5 right handed Dman in the league for 2 ufas a 2c and a 60 or winger who has missed first 20 games and expects an overpayment. Just aweful