Blowing it up

[Mobiandi]

Team should've traded Monahan last year

 

[JPeeper]

Trading Monahan would be the dumbest thing this franchise ever did in its 40+ year history. Even at his worst he is a 2nd line guy, when he's on he's a #1.

You now go from having 1 good center to no good centers.

Mikael Backlund on the top line? Really. He's on pace for 26 points.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Team should've traded Monahan last year

For what though? Trading him means we need another 1C back. Who was available really?

 

[GumbyCan2]

Here's the thing.....

Last year was the best chance the Flames had at doing something. They had the Norris wining D-Man. They had the offensive core over achieving. They had a goalie playing at a Vezina level (playoffs). They had all that going for them.....and got taken out back and ****ed in the ass by a team that couldn't get put of the second round.

The league has so much parody now that you need something to tip the scales in your favor, no matter how small it is. We've been laughing at the Oilers for over a decade, but they will be laughing soon, starting next year when they have cap space they are going to be scary.

We don't have a McDavid to tip the scale, hell we don't even have a Drai. We have Johnny and Chucky, that's it. Let's be honest here. And that's not enough. Johnny needs the right people around him to succeed , and Money ain't it. We are what we are.....a middling team that will always be a bubble team. We've never been bad enough to get a McDavid, and the one time we should have found a "star" player, we ended up with Sam.

Blowing it up will do nothing, as we would need to ship out our best players to get anything decent back. So how is that going to help? Johnny could probably get you a good #1C, but how good? And then would he even replace the points Johnny puts up?? Probably not.

The only way we ever get better is to tank, because we don't have the pieces to do a quick re-tool. And would you trust this leadership group to lead the tank? I don't think I would........

Basically we are where we have always been......middle of the pack. Never good enough, never bad enough.

Could tipping the scales in our favor be acquiring Brady Tkachuk from Ott?
I would be willing to send Johnny Hockey and Janko for him and a young center maybe?

 

[Kranix]

Team should've traded Monahan last year

pfffff

 

[Body Checker]

Treliving is in a bad spot; GM vultures are circling looking to make a lopsided deal; Treliving needs to hold tight for now unfortunately other than trading any pending UFAs for picks/prospects

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Trading Monahan would be the dumbest thing this franchise ever did in its 40+ year history. Even at his worst he is a 2nd line guy, when he's on he's a #1.

You now go from having 1 good center to no good centers.

Mikael Backlund on the top line? Really. He's on pace for 26 points.

Upgrading on Monahan has to be the priority. It's been plainly obvious for the better part of 2 seasons. Whether that means packaging him to get someone better, or getting someone better that slides him down to 2C. We need someone who can drive offense and take the load off Johnny. And when he's 'on', it's 100% because Johnny is 'on'.

 

[viper0220]

Upgrading on Monahan has to be the priority. It's been plainly obvious for the better part of 2 seasons. Whether that means packaging him to get someone better, or getting someone better that slides him down to 2C. We need someone who can drive offense and take the load off Johnny. And when he's 'on', it's 100% because Johnny is 'on'.

Best thing right now is trade Brodie, Hamonic and all the other crap for picks and get a high pick and pick a center and pray you get a chance at Byfield.

Than at the draft trade Johnny east for king's ransom.

 

[JPeeper]

Upgrading on Monahan has to be the priority. It's been plainly obvious for the better part of 2 seasons. Whether that means packaging him to get someone better, or getting someone better that slides him down to 2C. We need someone who can drive offense and take the load off Johnny. And when he's 'on', it's 100% because Johnny is 'on'.

There is literally no one available better than Monahan. This notion that we need to upgrade him is ludicrous since there is nothing to upgrade him with. The only option is through the draft.

There have been like 3-4 #1 centers traded in the past 20 years. It pretty much doesn't happen.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

There is literally no one available better than Monahan. This notion that we need to upgrade him is ludicrous since there is nothing to upgrade him with. The only option is through the draft.

There have been like 3-4 #1 centers traded in the past 20 years. It pretty much doesn't happen.

The dismissiveness that upgrading on him is ludicrous because there is nothing to upgrade him with is such a deflection from the fact that we aren't going to win with him as our 1C.

Are you saying we can win with him as our 1C and that all criticisms aren't valid?

 

[Kranix]

The dismissiveness that upgrading on him is ludicrous because there is nothing to upgrade him with is such a deflection from the fact that we aren't going to win with him as our 1C.

Are you saying we can win with him as our 1C and that all criticisms aren't valid?

The Pens were never going to win with Fleury in net. The Caps were never going to win with Ovechkin.
If you have a good enough team, a player of Monahan's calibre is okay as the number 1 centre.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

The Pens were never going to win with Fleury in net. The Caps were never going to win with Ovechkin.
If you have a good enough team, a player of Monahan's calibre is okay as the number 1 centre.

If we have better C depth behind him and better forward depth overall it's probably quite doable.

 

[Body Checker]

It will be easier for this team to add two scoring wingers than try to add a center. You could go Lindholm, Monohan and Backlund as 1-3 next season and add a couple wingers say Hoffman as UFA and Kapanen through trade. Johnny, Tkachuk, Mangiapane and Dube could round out the top 9. I would move Bennett for Kapanen personally.

 

[JPeeper]

The dismissiveness that upgrading on him is ludicrous because there is nothing to upgrade him with is such a deflection from the fact that we aren't going to win with him as our 1C.

Are you saying we can win with him as our 1C and that all criticisms aren't valid?

Hardly dismissive, I have just watched this league for 20 years and in that time have seen 3 #1 centers (Thornton, Seguin, O'Reilly) traded in that span (two of which were Boston).

You tell me how we can upgrade on Monahan and who is moving their #1 center and maybe I won't be so dismissive of such a pointless argument.

People talking about upgrading on Monahan when our 2nd line center is on pace for 26 points, our 3rd line center is a soon to be 33 year old Derek Ryan and our 4th line center is one of the worst players in the league in Jankowski.

 

[Dack]

The Pens were never going to win with Fleury in net. The Caps were never going to win with Ovechkin.
If you have a good enough team, a player of Monahan's calibre is okay as the number 1 centre.

The Penguins won with Fleury in net in 2009 when he was an elite goalie and then they won with him as their backup twice and he almost won again in 2018.

Ovechkin is one of the best playoff performers of this millennium and is the greatest pure scorer in the history of the game. I don't think either of those are good examples of winning with a clear weakness.

The worst Center duos to win the cup in the last two decades are what? McDonald and Getzlaf and Bergeron Krejci? Those blow our current centers out of the water and the Bruins still needed Tim Thomas to play out of his mind behind a stacked defence and the ducks had like 3 hall of famers playing for them at the time. The Devils also made due without a legit 1C by having three good centers (2000) and/or great wingers and a couple of the greatest D men of all time, playing in front of one of the greatest goalies of all time.


Winning with Monahan as the 1C is like winning with Trent Dilfer as your QB. It can be done but you need to be absolutely loaded everywhere else. Personally I think it would be easier to just draft an elite center. Perhaps a young 6'4-6'5 man who's tearing up the OHL?

 

[Kranix]

The Penguins won with Fleury in net in 2009 when he was an elite goalie and then they won with him as their backup twice and he almost won again in 2018.

Ovechkin is one of the best playoff performers of this millennium and is the greatest pure scorer in the history of the game. I don't think either of those are good examples of winning with a clear weakness.

The worst Center duos to win the cup in the last two decades are what? McDonald and Getzlaf and Bergeron Krejci? Those blow our current centers out of the water and the Bruins still needed Tim Thomas to play out of his mind behind a stacked defence and the ducks had like 3 hall of famers playing for them at the time. The Devils also made due without a legit 1C by having three good centers (2000) and/or great wingers and a couple of the greatest D men of all time, playing in front of one of the greatest goalies of all time.


Winning with Monahan as the 1C is like winning with Trent Dilfer as your QB. It can be done but you need to be absolutely loaded everywhere else. Personally I think it would be easier to just draft an elite center. Perhaps a young 6'4-6'5 man who's tearing up the OHL?

Very good stuff here. Good analysis.
Stanley cup winners don't need to be loaded. It's easier to draft Quinton Byfleif and let him win the cup than put together a good team.
Were you also one of the "how many rings though" type personalities in the Toews versus Player X debates?

 

[Dack]

Very good stuff here. Good analysis.
Stanley cup winners don't need to be loaded. It's easier to draft Quinton Byfleif and let him win the cup than put together a good team.
Were you also one of the "how many rings though" type personalities in the Toews versus Player X debates?

How about do both? Lol, why handicap yourself and build around a guy who isn't a 1C when you could build around a guy who will be? You have to have a great team to win a cup that much us obvious but that's even more important if your 1C isn't a 1C.


No I shit all over Toews for years because he's been overrated for years. He's a good player (was) but he's consistently been overrated due to his rings. Still he was undeniably a 1C in his prime when he could put up 70 points along with good two-way play.


But I get it it's the Calgary Flames way.

1. Don't get a 1C Langkow or Conroy or Monahan is good enough
2. Your best offensive players should be wingers
3. Be mediocre
4. ????
5. Profit

 

[Kranix]

How about do both? Lol, why handicap yourself and build around a guy who isn't a 1C when you could build around a guy who will be? You have to have a great team to win a cup that much us obvious but that's even more important if your 1C isn't a 1C.


No I **** all over Toews for years because he's been overrated for years. He's a good player (was) but he's consistently been overrated due to his rings. Still he was undeniably a 1C in his prime when he could put up 70 points along with good two-way play.


But I get it it's the Calgary Flames way.

1. Don't get a 1C Langkow or Conroy or Monahan is good enough
2. Your best offensive players should be wingers
3. Be mediocre
4. ????
5. Profit

But your plan is draft elite centre(as if that's a menu option)....then Cup!
The Blues had paul stastny and patrick berglund at centre and there best forward was and still is probably Tarasenko. They trade pricey assets for Schenn(never considered a 1C) and O'Reilly and look at them now. They still don't win without a deep team, elite goaltending, and magic dust, and neither does Sakic's Avs or Crosby's penguins.
Eichel may never win a cup.
What if a very good centre came available in trade or FA, and the flames got him and kept monahan?

 

[Fig]

The Flames were never dealt a hand to try and win with elite 1C + 1D + 1G. So instead, the only way we can continue is via depth. Treliving has done a pretty damn good job at that but the coaches are implementing systems that aren't quite jiving with the players.

Look how far we got with Hartley in 2015 and how far we fell in 2016. Look at the roster and pipeline since then and the ploff record. That's a crazy difference in talent.

 

[Mobiandi]

As the years go by, Monahan seems like a prime candidate to have a Stajan-like regression in his points total w/o Gaudreau. I just don't see him doing enough with the puck on his own

 

[Dack]

But your plan is draft elite centre(as if that's a menu option)....then Cup!
The Blues had paul stastny and patrick berglund at centre and there best forward was and still is probably Tarasenko. They trade pricey assets for Schenn(never considered a 1C) and O'Reilly and look at them now. They still don't win without a deep team, elite goaltending, and magic dust, and neither does Sakic's Avs or Crosby's penguins.
Eichel may never win a cup.
What if a very good centre came available in trade or FA, and the flames got him and kept monahan?

That's not the point cup winners always have good teams the issue is it's a hell of a lot easier to build that team when you've got a franchise center down the middle. The Flames have been awful down the middle for 30 years and I think it's a huge factor in how bad the team has been over that time period. We haven't had a tonne of luck with 1Ds either outside of Gio IMO, this team needs elite talent and preferably it's down the middle and on the backend rather than on the wing.

With regards to RoR I was in favor of offering Hamilton for him, back in 2017. 1Cs are very rarely traded because of how valuable they are RoR is the one guy whose been traded as a clear 1C IMO compare that to the elite wingers Hall, Panarin Kessell x2.

 

[Kranix]

Keep clinging to that dream, man. Or you cobble together the best team possible with what you can.
What if they don't get a top 5 pick, and the BPA is a winger! 5 more years of futility

 

[HugginThePost]

Could tipping the scales in our favor be acquiring Brady Tkachuk from Ott?
I would be willing to send Johnny Hockey and Janko for him and a young center maybe?

So much room for it being a disaster.......

......but it's a gamble I'd take.

I never thought I'd say I was ready to move on from JH, ever. Guy is my favorite player. But I think it's time.

 

[Dack]

Keep clinging to that dream, man. Or you cobble together the best team possible with what you can.
What if they don't get a top 5 pick, and the BPA is a winger!

I take Tim Stutzle, Marco Rossi or Cole Perfetti. You take the BPA but you still need to have a plan and draft a 1C down the line. You don't need top 5 picks to get 1Cs it helps but drafting well can overcome a lack of top 5 picks. Off the top of my head Scheifele, Kopitar, Bergeron, RoR, Couturier, Kuznetsov, Point, Getzlaf, Hertl, Aho, Larkin were all guys outside of the top 5 and most were outside of the top 10.


The Flames best isn't good enough for me, they don't need to win a cup but how about not being a guaranteed first round out on the off chance we even make the playoffs.

 

[Kranix]

I take Tim Stutzle, Marco Rossi or Cole Perfetti. You take the BPA but you still need to have a plan and draft a 1C down the line. You don't need top 5 picks to get 1Cs it helps but drafting well can overcome a lack of top 5 picks. Off the top of my head Scheifele, Kopitar, Bergeron, RoR, Couturier, Kuznetsov, Point, Getzlaf, Hertl, Aho, Larkin were all guys outside of the top 5 and most were outside of the top 10.


The Flames best isn't good enough for me, they don't need to win a cup but how about not being a guaranteed first round out on the off chance we even make the playoffs.

Stop pretending the draft isn't a complete shot in the dark after pick #2. Stop pretending.