Blowing it up

[Flames Fanatic]

This entire thread is a tad over-reactionary, no?
wait until February for a thread like this. It's not even December for Christ's sake.

Yes and No. This team hasn't been good since like January 2019 realistically. We aren't cooked for this year yet, but we certainly aren't seeing signs of life or doing ourselves any favors.

 

[crackdown44]

I mean yeah we look terrible but at the same time we’re a 5 game win streak where we play well away from everyone turning off the panic button

I don’t believe a complete tear down is realistic until 21/22 where Gio and Johny will be pending UFAs

I do think you try and get value from Hamonic/Brodie/Frolik at the deadline if you’re out of it though

 

[Tofveve]

We're a Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde team. It felt pretty good when we had the best line in the league last year competing with the likes of Kucherov and Company. The rest of the group was playing solid too. Then the All-Star break happened and like every year we pooched it up while somehow acquiring points in the standings.

I think we'll turn a corner on this year at some point soon and tear it up again. The only sucky thing and which is my yearly rant, is why can't we get close to playing well for 82 games and the playoffs? Year after year we've got a bunch of players - and we all know who - that take a third of the season off. Get distracted by whatever and play listless, uninspired, frustrated hockey. And then of course we need the group that showed against Vancouver in 2015 to show up again come April.

My gripe all along has been:

- Brodie is a top 4 guy not a top 2, plays small for his size. Puck mover and agile but coughs up the puck at the weirdest moments costing us regularly. He has small stretches of consistency but those seem to have been with Gio, otherwise he's inconsistent and not that trustworthy.

- Monahan is a 2c on any contending team. Have been waiting to see if he can take that next step and be a consistent, stronger 1c over say 72-75 games instead of the 50-55 games we see yearly.

- Johnny is who he is. My gripe isn't his effort, it's his size and though he is one of the most skilled players in the league, he needs to be with skilled sized players around him who will give him space with protection and taking the focus off of him. Otherwise he gets targeted and thrown off his game and then the soft, bad passes and such start to happen. I'd consider him in a trade, but only for real skilled top-end talent, which is unlikely.

- Janks is slow and immobile as heck. He took a step backward.

- Father time may be catching up to Gio as this year he has been making a lot of mistakes and looking a little lost. His speed and shot appear to be still there, so I haven't thrown in the towel on him.

- Andersson is a solid D and a top 4 guy for a long time, potentially. But I don't think he'll ever be near what we'd want as our #1 guy. His shot isn't anything to write home about and he isn't super fast either.

- Hanafin I'm okay with, but like a 3 D.

- Bennett is our energy guy along with Tkachuk but the experiment is old now and he just doesn't produce near to where anyone thought he might. And he takes dumb penalties, lots of penalties - sometimes at inopportune times and often leading to other team goals. Can he be a 3rd liner/4th liner for life? I guess if he's okay with it. But I don't think he's shown that he deserves to be anything more.

- Backlund . . . He is what he is too. A good defensive forward, but again, I hate to say it, he's shown some inconsistency too. And really, is he a true #2C on a contender? Probably not.

- Frolik is probably done.

- Tkachuk is probably our only untouchable.

- Lindholm, I'm okay with but sometimes I wonder if he's a true first line right winger. I've never been impressed with his right side presence on the PP, at the point or wherever. Pucks seem to get by him with regularity.

- Kylington is slow (I might be wrong about this one . . . May have been thinking about Fantenberg from last season; I have to see K play again).

- Hamonic is sketchy as heck.

- Stone is meh.

- I like Ryan and plays what we need from him.

Anyway, I'm up against a lunch break. Ciao for now.

 

[Kranix]

For whatever reason this is a down year for Gaudreau by his own standards. Players do have those.
Under no circumstances should they trade him. Crazy talk.

 

[Schred]

Like others have said, the time to blow it up would be the offeason.

The boys are just in a slump, holding their sticks to tight, and making panicked plays. They need to start holding onto pucks an extra second and making plays.

Very rarely does an entire team forget how to hockey over an offseason. They just need some sort of spark, whether that's line shuffling or a call up or whatever.

I wouldnt be opposed to Rinaldo getting called up. The guy is a literal sparkplug.

 

[DFF]

Like others have said, the time to blow it up would be the offeason.

The boys are just in a slump, holding their sticks to tight, and making panicked plays. They need to start holding onto pucks an extra second and making plays.

Very rarely does an entire team forget how to hockey over an offseason. They just need some sort of spark, whether that's line shuffling or a call up or whatever.

I wouldnt be opposed to Rinaldo getting called up. The guy is a literal sparkplug.

Except they didn't forget nothing.

They are what they are, a Fringe playoff team. They had a good stretch last year.. it's starting to look like a fluke than the norm.

BT needs to find at least one or two top players and the only option is at the top of the draft ...

 

[Schred]

Except they didn't forget nothing.

They are what they are, a Fringe playoff team. They had a good stretch last year.. it's starting to look like a fluke than the norm.

BT needs to find at least one or two top players and the only option is at the top of the draft ...

Maybe you're right, but I wouldnt risk blowing up the team 25 games into a season in case you're not.

We've all seen them play better than they are now. Almost nobody is playing to their potential. No one can even make a tape to tape pass right now. Its gotta be in their heads.

Get a few bounces our way and watch this team turn it around.

 

[Dack]

- Kylington is slow

Que?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I'm for any situation that gives Bennett 20+ minutes a night as a center with quality wingers, even if it means jettisoning Sean Monahan for draft picks and losing 30 goals a year in the process. I'd also ship out Hamonic... warrior but he's become our 6th best defenseman and at 3.85M per that is poor value.

Let's also work out a Lucic - Kovalchuk swap with the Kings

Tkachuk - Bennett - Zavgorodniy
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Kovalchuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Phillips
Dube - Ryan - Jankowski

Giordano-Brodie
Kylington-Andersson
Hanifin-Valimaki

try that for a whole tbh

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I'm for any situation that gives Bennett 20+ minutes a night as a center with quality wingers, even if it means jettisoning Sean Monahan for draft picks and losing 30 goals a year in the process. I'd also ship out Hamonic... warrior but he's become our 6th best defenseman and at 3.85M per that is poor value.

Let's also work out a Lucic - Kovalchuk swap with the Kings

Tkachuk - Bennett - Zavgorodniy
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Kovalchuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Phillips
Dube - Ryan - Jankowski

Giordano-Brodie
Kylington-Andersson
Hanifin-Valimaki

try that for a whole tbh

You wanna call up Zav from the minors to play top line? Really?

Even ignoring the usual Bennett worship and Monahan hate, that really blows my mind.

I'm all for calling up Gawdin, Phillips and Lomberg to inject some energy.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

I'm for any situation that gives Bennett 20+ minutes a night as a center with quality wingers, even if it means jettisoning Sean Monahan for draft picks and losing 30 goals a year in the process. I'd also ship out Hamonic... warrior but he's become our 6th best defenseman and at 3.85M per that is poor value.

Let's also work out a Lucic - Kovalchuk swap with the Kings

Tkachuk - Bennett - Zavgorodniy
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Kovalchuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Phillips
Dube - Ryan - Jankowski

Giordano-Brodie
Kylington-Andersson
Hanifin-Valimaki

try that for a whole tbh

Looks like a team that would finish in the old not good enough for the playoffs, but not good enough to tank zone.. Probably the worst C depth in the NHL.

 

[Tofveve]

Que?

I'm thinking a lot about the end of last season and the playoffs. He was pulling the Regehr of knowing he couldn't get to either corner in time to challenge other teams offense so stood in front of the net a lot. He may be a bit quicker this year but last year he for sure looked really slow.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Wanna blow it up?

Gaudreau and Frolik (1M retained) to Nashville for Arvisdsson, Granlund, 1st round pick
Hamonic, Jankowski, 2nd to Toronto for Kapanen and Barrie


Tkachuk - Lindholm - Arvidsson
Granlund - Monahan - Kapanen
Mangiapane - Backlund - Bennett
Dube - Ryan - Lucic

Giordano - Barrie
Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Brodie

 

[Kranix]

Wanna blow it up?

Gaudreau and Frolik (1M retained) to Nashville for Arvisdsson, Granlund, 1st round pick
Hamonic, Jankowski, 2nd to Toronto for Kapanen and Barrie


Tkachuk - Lindholm - Arvidsson
Granlund - Monahan - Kapanen
Mangiapane - Backlund - Bennett
Dube - Ryan - Lucic

Giordano - Barrie
Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Brodie

Absolutely, horrendously awful

 

[Nanuuk]

We don't need to blow it up, but we may need to swap out a player or two from the core.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Absolutely, horrendously awful

Certainly any deal in which you have Gaudreau leaving town will look sub par on paper.. and will be a tough sell. Just further illustrates how difficult it is to "blow it up" or to move a core piece. Obviously not a serious proposal.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Certainly any deal in which you have Gaudreau leaving town will look sub par on paper.. and will be a tough sell. Just further illustrates how difficult it is to "blow it up" or to move a core piece. Obviously not a serious proposal.

True. I highly doubt the preds move Arvidsson too, too much of a heartbeat of the team kinda guy.

 

[HighLifeMan]

True. I highly doubt the preds move Arvidsson too, too much of a heartbeat of the team kinda guy.

Which is exactly why he is the "type" of player I would target. This team needs more guys like him.

 

[lightstorm]

You'd have to be mad to target guys like Barrie and Granlund if you were going to blow it up.

 

[HighLifeMan]

You'd have to be mad to target guys like Barrie and Granlund if you were going to blow it up.

Not considering what we would be giving up (Hamonic and Frolik). The goal would be to seriously shake up the core while staying competitive. Trading Gaudreau for pure futures would be a much crazier idea in my opinion.

Johhny's play post all star break has me seriously concerned - and I don't think it's all on him. I honestly believe the book is out on him - and he has yet to find a way to adapt.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Not considering what we would be giving up (Hamonic and Frolik). The goal would be to seriously shake up the core while staying competitive. Trading Gaudreau for pure futures would be a much crazier idea in my opinion.

Johhny's play post all star break has me seriously concerned - and I don't think it's all on him. I honestly believe the book is out on him - and he has yet to find a way to adapt.

Flames need someone else on that top line who can gain the line with the puck and not have to dump it in all the time. JG, is at his best when he has the puck in the zone and we're set up spreading the other team out, which isn't happening.. teams are challenging the other guys to make plays and are focusing on JG and it's working. Sadly, Derek Ryan seems to be the only one gaining the with the puck and occasionally the second line.

It seemed like for the good parts of last year we were transitioning quick and taking it right through without dumping it, but now it's dump, pass back to the point and then get a low danger point shot.. repeat. Nobody is taking it into the middle of the ice.

 

[viper0220]

Certainly any deal in which you have Gaudreau leaving town will look sub par on paper.. and will be a tough sell. Just further illustrates how difficult it is to "blow it up" or to move a core piece. Obviously not a serious proposal.

If you are trading Gaudreau, you need a very top center coming back, if you don't get that, than there is no point in trading him.

And Johnny does have a NTC.

 

[HighLifeMan]

If you are trading Gaudreau, you need a very top center coming back, if you don't get that, than there is no point in trading him.

And Johnny does have a NTC.

I don't disagree. The chances of that happening however are virtually non existent. Nobody is moving a comparably productive top line center for a diminutive winger that has struggled for the most part in big games.

 

[Gettin Iggy With It]

I don't see the organization blowing it up or moving on from Monahan and Gaudreau any time soon. Monahan is not an elite 1C, and we are probably stuck with him. Unfortunately the only way we can get a better 1c is by drafting and I highly doubt the flames will be in the position to draft an elite centre anytime soon. If they do try to trade for another 1C it'll probably be a lateral move since teams likely won't part with a star centre. I think realistically the Flames will just try to upgrade the 2c spot with someone who is more offensively skilled than Backlund.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - 2C - Mang.
Lucic- Backlund - Bennett
Reider - Ryan - Czarnik/-

We will probably have a forward group like this by the end of the year with a couple guys like Quine, Dube, Gawdin etc. getting called up for stints.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

This thread is a tad premature and at best about two months early. Hopefully not required at all but all signs point to a serious issue.

In this case, "blowing it up" is trading marketable assets that are pending UFA like Brodie & Hamonic at (near) the trade deadline. There's no reason the Flames can't get at least a 1st round pick or more. Look for replacements in the off-season, via trade or (barf) free agency, perhaps even bringing one/both back.