Blowing it up

[Dack]

I'm thinking a lot about the end of last season and the playoffs. He was pulling the Regehr of knowing he couldn't get to either corner in time to challenge other teams offense so stood in front of the net a lot. He may be a bit quicker this year but last year he for sure looked really slow.

Are you sure you're thinking of the right guy? Kylington has his faults but he's a phenomenal skater, he might be the single best skater on the team.

I don't even think he played towards the end of last season that was mainly Fantenberg and Valimaki.

 

[DFF]

Are you sure you're thinking of the right guy? Kylington has his faults but he's a phenomenal skater, he might be the single best skater on the team.

I don't even think he played towards the end of last season that was mainly Fantenberg and Valimaki.

Yeah he is not slow. He just doesnt know where he is supposed to be but he is not the only one. Even Gio does it now. Count how many 2 on 1 or breakaways they give up nightly

I am pretty sure Peters knows how to fix it...NOT

 

[viper0220]

I don't disagree. The chances of that happening however are virtually non existent. Nobody is moving a comparably productive top line center for a diminutive winger that has struggled for the most part in big games.

Than just keep him, if you are trading Johnny, than it is a package and if that package does not get you something worthwhile, than don't trade him.

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

Fast track a rebuild, Trade for Taylor hall and win the lotto next year. It worked for jersey now they just need a goalie.

 

[Tofveve]

Are you sure you're thinking of the right guy? Kylington has his faults but he's a phenomenal skater, he might be the single best skater on the team.

I don't even think he played towards the end of last season that was mainly Fantenberg and Valimaki.

Maybe I was thinking of Fantenberg last year. Interesting stuff. Good catch and I take it back until I see him play again.

 

[Fig]

If Zucker and Kadri trades are an indication. Treliving is trying to insulate the core, not blow it up.

 

[HugginThePost]

Here's the thing.....

Last year was the best chance the Flames had at doing something. They had the Norris wining D-Man. They had the offensive core over achieving. They had a goalie playing at a Vezina level (playoffs). They had all that going for them.....and got taken out back and f***ed in the ass by a team that couldn't get put of the second round.

The league has so much parody now that you need something to tip the scales in your favor, no matter how small it is. We've been laughing at the Oilers for over a decade, but they will be laughing soon, starting next year when they have cap space they are going to be scary.

We don't have a McDavid to tip the scale, hell we don't even have a Drai. We have Johnny and Chucky, that's it. Let's be honest here. And that's not enough. Johnny needs the right people around him to succeed , and Money ain't it. We are what we are.....a middling team that will always be a bubble team. We've never been bad enough to get a McDavid, and the one time we should have found a "star" player, we ended up with Sam.

Blowing it up will do nothing, as we would need to ship out our best players to get anything decent back. So how is that going to help? Johnny could probably get you a good #1C, but how good? And then would he even replace the points Johnny puts up?? Probably not.

The only way we ever get better is to tank, because we don't have the pieces to do a quick re-tool. And would you trust this leadership group to lead the tank? I don't think I would........

Basically we are where we have always been......middle of the pack. Never good enough, never bad enough.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

We've been laughing at the Oilers for over a decade, but they will be laughing soon, starting next year when they have cap space they are going to be scary.

Point of Order. Oilers have just shy of 24 million in space with only a roster of NINE players. Even if you fill the roster with a lot of ELC's, which I'm not convinced they have ready on some, that's still needing to fill 12-14 roster spots with $24 million in space to do it. They also need to re-sign Nurse, Jones, Benning and Bear in there as RFA's. Kassian who has been a pretty big piece for them is a UFA.

They have MORE cap space than they have had yes, but they are not exactly swimming in it either.

 

[HugginThePost]

Point of Order. Oilers have just shy of 24 million in space with only a roster of NINE players. Even if you fill the roster with a lot of ELC's, which I'm not convinced they have ready on some, that's still needing to fill 12-14 roster spots with $24 million in space to do it. They also need to re-sign Nurse, Jones, Benning and Bear in there as RFA's. Kassian who has been a pretty big piece for them is a UFA.

They have MORE cap space than they have had yes, but they are not exactly swimming in it either.

I'll be honest with you, I thought they had a lot more free space......

.......but even so, they have the best duo in hockey, and it's really not even close.

They can fill in spare parts as required. Where as the Flames have no real difference makers.

Even Chuck, as good as he is, doesn't come close to a McDavid or Drai.

They are, and seem to be forever destined, to be a middling team.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I wouldn’t deal Tkachuk for Leon.

 

[Fig]

Any old timers with some stories to chime in? Didn't we get to a certain point in the 80s where we were playoff locks, but it took the team a few years to fine tune before winning the grail in 89?

What was that like in terms of the "missing mental fortitude" to make it to the end of the playoffs?

We had something in 2015 that allowed us to properly play as an excellent sum of our parts even though our overall talent was horrendous. Even then, there was always belief and hope. We easily have 2-3 times more talent now, but we seem to have far more issues in terms of our belief and hope. What gives? I really do not think it's an intentional laziness. I literally think there's something psychological that the players themselves might not be aware of that's causing them to play inconsistently.

Hartley's system was bare bones simple. It gets it in trouble when the other teams counter it, but the players played it like freaking clockwork.
Gully's and Peter's system is more advanced and modern. It has its responses for other teams counter, but the players play it super inconsistently. Also, it's like a phalanx. If one guy fails, likely, the whole team dies as well.

 

[bronco73]

I wouldn’t deal Tkachuk for Leon.

In the words of Yoda... "That, is why you fail."

 

[Bounces R Way]

My kingdom for a elite #1 Center. Heaven and earth. A first born. All the Grade A bitumen you could possibly dream of. I'll even throw in one of my testicles, pick your favourite.

Until the Flames have a guy that owns the center of the ice for 20+ minutes a game in all 200 feet of the rink there shall be no salvation. They will toil and mire in mediocrity.

In the words of Yoda... "That, is why you fail."

I have spoken​

 

[cheechoo]

Trading a 26 year old Johnny Gaudreau barring him saying he doesn't want to come back is such a shorsighted play. He's going to rock this league for another 5-7 years at least.

If we do miss the playoffs, some lotto luck would be nice. Byfield looking like a big dynamic 1C, Laf is Laf, Lucas Raymond looking like a Panarin/Marner breed. Look at how much tinkering it took STL, you don't explode a decent young core because of an off year.

Finding another 1D to take the reigns from Gio is going to be tough though. This is why Brad held on to Valimaki, we have to pray he can make a smooth recovery and possibly one day bloom into that all situations defender.

Lucic... oof, we have to find another sucker. Throw in compensation, take on another horrid contract. Lucic + 4th for Turris. Lucic + something for Kovalchuk. Like he has to be nuked.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Any old timers with some stories to chime in? Didn't we get to a certain point in the 80s where we were playoff locks, but it took the team a few years to fine tune before winning the grail in 89?

What was that like in terms of the "missing mental fortitude" to make it to the end of the playoffs?

The team in the 80s was built on the backs of shrewd NCAA scouting/drafting, and was built to basically compete with the powerhouse Oilers. Like it or not, that Oilers team through the 80s was basically two lines deep of HOF talent. There's a reason that the Stanley Cup finals had a team from Alberta from 1983-1990.

I still think the leadership group of that 89 team was likely the best this team has ever had, and coupled with the "win it for Lanny" (it was known he was retiring at the end of the season) helped propel them to the Cup.

Funny thing about the Flames in 1990 onwards though. Lanny McDonald retired. Hakan Loob retired (age 29) to return to Sweden. Traded Joe Mullen for a bag of pucks. The Gilmour trade. Hiring Doug Risebrough as GM. (not in that order) all contributed to the dark ages between 92-04.

 

[bronco73]

Trading a 26 year old Johnny Gaudreau barring him saying he doesn't want to come back is such a shorsighted play. He's going to rock this league for another 5-7 years at least.

If we do miss the playoffs, some lotto luck would be nice. Byfield looking like a big dynamic 1C, Laf is Laf, Lucas Raymond looking like a Panarin/Marner breed. Look at how much tinkering it took STL, you don't explode a decent young core because of an off year.

Finding another 1D to take the reigns from Gio is going to be tough though. This is why Brad held on to Valimaki, we have to pray he can make a smooth recovery and possibly one day bloom into that all situations defender.

Lucic... oof, we have to find another sucker. Throw in compensation, take on another horrid contract. Lucic + 4th for Turris. Lucic + something for Kovalchuk. Like he has to be nuked.

Gaudreau has never really rocked the league, he's had great years but that's about it. Gio is already on the downhill and you won't be moving Lucic unles you retain salary and lots of it. Tough decisions coming in Calgary for sure

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Gaudreau has never really rocked the league, he's had great years but that's about it. Gio is already on the downhill and you won't be moving Lucic unles you retain salary and lots of it. Tough decisions coming in Calgary for sure

Gaudreau literally finished 4th in Hart voting despite Gio finishing top 10 as well. Short of actually winning the Hart, how would you qualify rocking the league? Let alone how many top 10 scoring seasons in his career already?

 

[cheechoo]

Gaudreau literally finished 4th in Hart voting despite Gio finishing top 10 as well. Short of actually winning the Hart, how would you qualify rocking the league? Let alone how many top 10 scoring seasons in his career already?

he's trolling, i hope?

 

[Janks]

Gaudreau literally finished 4th in Hart voting despite Gio finishing top 10 as well. Short of actually winning the Hart, how would you qualify rocking the league? Let alone how many top 10 scoring seasons in his career already?

Let's see him do it against actual NHL D-men though first.

 

[Basko34]

My kingdom for a elite #1 Center. Heaven and earth. A first born. All the Grade A bitumen you could possibly dream of. I'll even throw in one of my testicles, pick your favourite.

Until the Flames have a guy that owns the center of the ice for 20+ minutes a game in all 200 feet of the rink there shall be no salvation. They will toil and mire in mediocrity.

I have spoken​

Sounds like Barkov to me.

 

[BigRangy]

After losing tonight, playing the rest of the season at a 107 point (last year’s total) pace will give the Flames 97 points on the year.

I think this season is over, and it certainly will be by the end of the road trip if they don’t win out.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Maybe you're right, but I wouldnt risk blowing up the team 25 games into a season in case you're not.

We've all seen them play better than they are now. Almost nobody is playing to their potential. No one can even make a tape to tape pass right now. Its gotta be in their heads.

Get a few bounces our way and watch this team turn it around.

Are we missing Hathaway? Look, he's even learned Tom Wilson "goonery arts" in Washington DC

 

[viper0220]

Until we fix the center position, this team is not going anywhere.

 

[Dack]

Gaudreau is done in Calgary IMO, this is his last season as a Flame whether or not he's traded in season is my question. He's going to do great for who ever ends up getting him, this kind of reminds me of Carolina Jeff Skinner under Peters but Johnny has just given up whereas Skinner was unhappy but still trying his best.

Monahan should be traded when you could still maybe convince a few GMs that he's a 1C. I don't really want to build around him again, we tried Monahan as our 1C and its let us down time and time again. I think his ideal situation is 2C behind a Bergeron type player with lots of PP time or on the wing, we don't have a Bergeron and IMO we should look to maximize value.

Trade Brodie and Hamonic and look into what you could get for Gio. This is a deep draft and this doesn't have to be a long process Vegas took a team of scraps to the finals with great coaching and shrewd GMing. It's really not that hard.

 

[Tofveve]

Going to quote what I said in the game day:

"I've seen it for three years that Mony isn't a contending team's first line center. Our management team should have seen this too.

I've seen for at least 3 years that Brodie was overvalued when he was thought of as a Norris candidate. Calgary management should have seen this too.

Brodie for sure should have been traded while he had high value between 2 and 5 years ago.

Mony could still garner good return for a team with some depth up the middle. This was Toronto's case last year with Kadri on the books.

Regardless, blockbuster trades can happen with a bunch of bodies going for a superstar. We need a bonafide #1 center. If we do that and Johnny still is struggling he'll have to go. But that would still be a year or two later with lots of prime and value left.

Flames management screwed up.

The book is out on Brodie, Bennett and now Mony. It's a bloody shame because now what? What can we offer to get a superstar (or close to it)?"

And:

"Also, it wasn't just that we got dominated in the playoffs last year.

We were effing dominant up until the All-Star break last year. And it wasn't immediately apparent that Johnny dropped off at that point.

It was effing apparent that Mony disappeared for the rest of the season at that point. At the All-Star break. Dunzo. And hasn't been back.

We picked up points after that by fluke.

But make no mistake prior to the All-Star Break last year our top line was a top 3 line in the league for give or take 3 months.

So let's figure that out.

And yes, maybe there are off-ice issues."