Player Discussion: Blake Wheeler on Situation in Minnesota - Read Mod note in OP

[Eyeseeing]

Liked Dylan DeMelo’s message a lot.
Very well said.

 

[Duke749]

Nice to see the other 3 cops were finally charged and the main charge was moved up to 2nd degree.

I’m a little concerned they will struggle to prove to a full jury that he was intentionally trying to kill him. 3rd degree would be far easier but they have now made their case harder. Not to mention finding an untainted jury is going to be next to impossible. He could plead but if this goes to trial, there’s a decent chance he gets off. Our country could implode if that were to happen.

 

[SM]

@Romang67 - thanks for even considering re-opening the thread.

Echoing the sentiment behind Subban and Bergeron’s statements, if you’re able to, please do some research and find a worthy cause to donate to. I spent a good chunk of yesterday settling on two causes, one at a policy implementation level and the other at a grassroots level. I also convinced a buddy of mine to join me in splitting cash between he two causes (Campaign Zero, and also a Minneapolis based childcare collective focused on providing affordable/free options to POC families in need). Although it wasn’t the $50K each of the players put forth, it still adds a layer of ownership and sense of partnership within this movement.

Not sure if this has been touched on yet, but given their private nature, I am surprised both Crosby and McDavid made statements in the last 24 hours. Understanding not all everyday folk have the means to support financially, it does feel somewhat hollow for a kid making USD12.5M per year for the next 8 years to not put his money where his mouth is. Although, again, knowing their private nature, either 87 or 97 could have donated without sharing publicly.

I also feel that the barrage of corporate statements in the last 2 days has been mind numbing, TNSE included. All have read the same, except for Ben and Jerry’s and LEGO who have either started brazen (but needed!) dialog, or have committed significant $ to the cause. For TNSE, why not lay out examples of what you plan to do differently? Or highlight examples of what you already do (if any)? Similar to McDavid’s statement, it read quite hollow from my perspective.

 

[ps241]

@Romang67 - thanks for even considering re-opening the thread.

Echoing the sentiment behind Subban and Bergeron’s statements, if you’re able to, please do some research and find a worthy cause to donate to. I spent a good chunk of yesterday settling on two causes, one at a policy implementation level and the other at a grassroots level. I also convinced a buddy of mine to join me in splitting cash between he two causes (Campaign Zero, and also a Minneapolis based childcare collective focused on providing affordable/free options to POC families in need). Although it wasn’t the $50K each of the players put forth, it still adds a layer of ownership and sense of partnership within this movement.

Not sure if this has been touched on yet, but given their private nature, I am surprised both Crosby and McDavid made statements in the last 24 hours. Understanding not all everyday folk have the means to support financially, it does feel somewhat hollow for a kid making USD12.5M per year for the next 8 years to not put his money where his mouth is. Although, again, knowing their private nature, either 87 or 97 could have donated without sharing publicly.

I also feel that the barrage of corporate statements in the last 2 days has been mind numbing, TNSE included. All have read the same, except for Ben and Jerry’s and LEGO who have either started brazen (but needed!) dialog, or have committed significant $ to the cause. For TNSE, why not lay out examples of what you plan to do differently? Or highlight examples of what you already do (if any)? Similar to McDavid’s statement, it read quite hollow from my perspective.

I applaud you for taking action (and putting your money where your mouth is ) for something you are passionate about. Allot of people miss the “action” step and honestly it’s critical.

 

[QuietContrarian]

You're part of the problem when you close your ears and say this is a political debate.

This is not a political debate. This has nothing to do with politics. This is everything about human beings.

Educate yourself on what it's like to be a black person or an Aboriginal living in North America.

No, I am not! And please dont pretend you know anything about me and my own personal struggles or even the color of my skin!
No matter how you want to swing it, this is a political debate!

Not wanting the last bastion of the internet (hf) to be politicized is not ignoring the problem.

The internet is awash with people debating this, and I also debate this with friends and family - Just personally want this place to be free of politics and Social justice talks.

Btw, cops in the US are not racist, they are terribly educated, if you look at copblocks fb, you would see white people are just as often Victims of police injustice.

I have aspergers, and it is a big problem in the US with how cops treat people with mental disabilities, does this mean the police are ableist? No, they are poorly screened and poorly educated.

 

[ps241]

No, I am not! And please dont pretend you know anything about me and my own personal struggles or even the color of my skin!
No matter how you want to swing it, this is a political debate!

Not wanting the last bastion of the internet (hf) to be politicized is not ignoring the problem.

The internet is awash with people debating this, and I also debate this with friends and family - Just personally want this place to be free of politics and Social justice talks.

Btw, cops in the US are not racist, they are terribly educated, if you look at copblocks fb, you would see white people are just as often Victims of police injustice.

I have aspergers, and it is a big problem in the US with how cops treat people with mental disabilities, does this mean the police are ableist? No, they are poorly screened and poorly educated.

I find the best way to avoid on HF is using the ignore function. Not kidding it does wonders.

 

[Tommigun]

@Romang67 - thanks for even considering re-opening the thread.

Echoing the sentiment behind Subban and Bergeron’s statements, if you’re able to, please do some research and find a worthy cause to donate to. I spent a good chunk of yesterday settling on two causes, one at a policy implementation level and the other at a grassroots level. I also convinced a buddy of mine to join me in splitting cash between he two causes (Campaign Zero, and also a Minneapolis based childcare collective focused on providing affordable/free options to POC families in need). Although it wasn’t the $50K each of the players put forth, it still adds a layer of ownership and sense of partnership within this movement.

Not sure if this has been touched on yet, but given their private nature, I am surprised both Crosby and McDavid made statements in the last 24 hours. Understanding not all everyday folk have the means to support financially, it does feel somewhat hollow for a kid making USD12.5M per year for the next 8 years to not put his money where his mouth is. Although, again, knowing their private nature, either 87 or 97 could have donated without sharing publicly.

I also feel that the barrage of corporate statements in the last 2 days has been mind numbing, TNSE included. All have read the same, except for Ben and Jerry’s and LEGO who have either started brazen (but needed!) dialog, or have committed significant $ to the cause. For TNSE, why not lay out examples of what you plan to do differently? Or highlight examples of what you already do (if any)? Similar to McDavid’s statement, it read quite hollow from my perspective.

I have never understood why Americans feel a need to pose with a “look at me” check when they donate. Donations are supposed to be done in private, not as a self promotion scheme.

 

[Tommigun]

What I really can’t stand is that a Swedish police officer held up a sign saying “White silence is violence”.
Is it violence, when people on the other side of the earth, don’t get involved in ANOTHER country’s INTERNAL politics?

 

[QuietContrarian]

I find the best way to avoid on HF is using the ignore function. Not kidding it does wonders.

Honestly sometimes forget it’s there.

Don’t think I have ever put anyone on ignore before tbh.

 

[ps241]

Honestly sometimes forget it’s there.

Don’t think I have ever put anyone on ignore before tbh.

on balance I try not to create an eco chamber for myself but I am comfortable curating the content when it comes to my casual hobbies like HFboards or 1290 “sports” radio.

 

[ps241]

I have never understood why Americans feel a need to pose with a “look at me” check when they donate. Donations are supposed to be done in private, not as a self promotion scheme.

I don’t think posing with a donation is uniquely American is it? I see it all the time in Canada too.

I am 100% fine with people giving quietly or wanting to be known for what they give. If they or their company are giving time and or money it’s usually a pretty good act whether it’s done in silence or with a bow.

Honestly some people working in companies really want to know if their employer is giving something back. They want it to be transparent and it can be a source of pride.

I sat on a volunteer board for a good cause and the lead sponsor was an arrogant asshole that wanted his name on the project. The thing is though he had really rich friends and he brought in allot of money which was a critical element. Every time I drive by the project with his family name on it I am still proud of what was accomplished and the miserable sod played a key role.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I don’t think posing with a donation is uniquely American is it? I see it all the time in Canada too.

I am 100% fine with people giving quietly or wanting to be known for what they give. If they or their company are giving time and or money it’s usually a pretty good act whether it’s done in silence or with a bow.

Honestly some people working in companies really want to know if their employer is giving something back. They want it to be transparent and it can be a source of pride.

I sat on a volunteer board for a good cause and the lead sponsor was an arrogant asshole that wanted his name on the project. The thing is though he had really rich friends and he brought in allot of money which was a critical element. Every time I drive by the project with his family name on it I am still proud of what was accomplished and the miserable sod played a key role.

Don’t mind it perse, what I do mind is rich Hollywood assholes tellings us all to do more/give more and be better - Sitting in their mega mansions living very comfortsble lives.

Somehow I find it easier to stomach a self made arrogant asshole, over a virtue signalling pampered hollywood star.

The smug assholes...

Ricky Gervais had it right! “Shut up and entertain me”.

 

[Tommigun]

I don’t think posing with a donation is uniquely American is it? I see it all the time in Canada too.

I am 100% fine with people giving quietly or wanting to be known for what they give. If they or their company are giving time and or money it’s usually a pretty good act whether it’s done in silence or with a bow.

Honestly some people working in companies really want to know if their employer is giving something back. They want it to be transparent and it can be a source of pride.

I sat on a volunteer board for a good cause and the lead sponsor was an arrogant asshole that wanted his name on the project. The thing is though he had really rich friends and he brought in allot of money which was a critical element. Every time I drive by the project with his family name on it I am still proud of what was accomplished and the miserable sod played a key role.

I should have qualified it as North American then

In Europe it is considered extremely rude to in any way publicly “boast” about donating, which I agree with.

If it is truely done from an altruistic perspective then other people don’t need to know. Drawing attention to yourself takes away from the actual cause and comes off as self promotion in the wake of the campaign. It is as with your salary, keep it private or you are an asshole.

Also, aren’t donations often tax deductible over there? So it’s not really that large a sacrifice under certain conditions?
When people donate here, it really is giving away 100% of the sum, often after having already payed 50% in income tax.

Donating under those conditions, while keeping it private, is the only noble way to do it and everything else seems extremely tacky, even repulsive, to a large portion of Europeans.

Companies can do whatever they want. You said it’s a pride of employees? Would they still find it prideful if nobody outside knew, or are they just in it for the “holier than thou when it’s not even my money” points?

 

[QuietContrarian]

I should have qualified it as North American then

In Europe it is considered extremely rude to in any way publicly “boast” about donating, which I agree with.

If it is truely done from an altruistic perspective then other people don’t need to know. Drawing attention to yourself takes away from the actual cause and comes off as self promotion in the wake of the campaign. It is as with your salary, keep it private or you are an asshole.

Also, aren’t donations often tax deductible over there? So it’s not really that large a sacrifice under certain conditions?
When people donate here, it really is giving away 100% of the sum, often after having already payed 50% in income tax.

Donating under those conditions, while keeping it private, is the only noble way to do it and everything else seems extremely tacky, even repulsive, to a large portion of Europeans.

Companies can do whatever they want. You said it’s a pride of employees? Would they still find it prideful if nobody outside knew, or are they just in it for the “holier than thou when it’s not even my money” points?

How else are they gonna get the “philanthropist” tag on their wiki.

 

[ps241]

I should have qualified it as North American then

In Europe it is considered extremely rude to in any way publicly “boast” about donating, which I agree with.

If it is truely done from an altruistic perspective then other people don’t need to know. Drawing attention to yourself takes away from the actual cause and comes off as self promotion in the wake of the campaign. It is as with your salary, keep it private or you are an asshole.

Also, aren’t donations often tax deductible over there? So it’s not really that large a sacrifice under certain conditions?
When people donate here, it really is giving away 100% of the sum, often after having already payed 50% in income tax.

Donating under those conditions, while keeping it private, is the only noble way to do it and everything else seems extremely tacky, even repulsive, to a large portion of Europeans.

Companies can do whatever they want. You said it’s a pride of employees? Would they still find it prideful if nobody outside knew, or are they just in it for the “holier than thou when it’s not even my money” points?

Good post I enjoy hearing the different takes culturally.

Personally I look at it pragmatically. The goal is to maximize the amount of money flowing into charities. If that comes silently or with a Big Bang as long as the tap is turned on and the money or time is flowing in it’s all good. Style points are less relevant to me.

The tax deductible component as I understand it is a factor but as an individual you don’t benefit dollar for dollar. There is still a cost.

To be clear I prefer the silent way but I am mostly focused on how can the maximum dollars for good be extracted. If you talked to any person looking for donations they would gladly pose for Big Cheque photo ops all day if the money was rolling in. I realize there are more noble ways to give but when the donations are piled up on the table it’s hard to identify which euros were given quietly and which euros were given with fanfare.

On the business front I can tell you it has changed allot and continues to change. Younger employees Increasingly want to know their companies give a shit and often the employees are a big part of giving back. I look at it as a very positive development.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Good post I enjoy hearing the different takes culturally.

Personally I look at it pragmatically. The goal is to maximize the amount of money flowing into charities. If that comes silently or with a Big Bang as long as the tap is turned on and the money or time is flowing in it’s all good. Style points are less relevant to me.

The tax deductible component as I understand it is a factor but as an individual you don’t benefit dollar for dollar. There is still a cost.

To be clear I prefer the silent way but I am mostly focused on how can the maximum dollars for good be extracted. If you talked to any person looking for donations they would gladly pose for Big Cheque photo ops all day if the money was rolling in. I realize there are more noble ways to give but when the donations are piled up on the table it’s hard to identify which euros were given quietly and which euros were given with fanfare.

On the business front I can tell you it has changed allot and continues to change. Younger employees Increasingly want to know their companies give a shit and often the employees are a big part of giving back. I look at it as a very positive development.

If you enjoy that, you should give this a look to better understand Northern Europeans, especially Scandinavians/Nordics.

Law of Jante - Wikipedia

 

[SM]

I have never understood why Americans feel a need to pose with a “look at me” check when they donate. Donations are supposed to be done in private, not as a self promotion scheme.

Not when you have a platform of hundreds of thousands of people who have subscribed to listen to you, your thoughts, and beliefs.

Then the “look at me” is a “do with me”.

 

[irunthepeg]

Not when you have a platform of hundreds of thousands of people who have subscribed to listen to you, your thoughts, and beliefs.

Then the “look at me” is a “do with me”.

I think that promoting the fact of giving donations is a fine line between boasting and what SM is saying here "do with me." It's almost impossible to know the intent.

The only time I would clarify on whether or not I've supported anything financially would be if someone was trying to check me on if I was just talking the talk on supporting something or walking the walk.

PS. Thanks to Romang for re-opening this thread. I understand that a topic like this is not one that can be easily moderated and could potentially cause for some headaches for the mods.

 

[irunthepeg]

Nice to see the other 3 cops were finally charged and the main charge was moved up to 2nd degree.

I’m a little concerned they will struggle to prove to a full jury that he was intentionally trying to kill him. 3rd degree would be far easier but they have now made their case harder. Not to mention finding an untainted jury is going to be next to impossible. He could plead but if this goes to trial, there’s a decent chance he gets off. Our country could implode if that were to happen.

I'm not very educated on the different degrees of murder. As per What Do 2nd-Degree Murder, 3rd-Degree Murder, Manslaughter Charges Mean?:

Second-degree murder: According to the Minnesota statute, whoever causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting” is guilty of murder in the second degree.
Someone found guilty faces a prison sentence of no more than 40 years.

Third-degree murder: According to the Minnesota statute, whoever causes the death of a person “by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree.”
Someone found guilty faces a prison sentence of no more than 25 years or a fine of no more than $40,000, or both.

Second-degree manslaughter: According to the Minnesota statute, when someone “creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another” is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree.

I agree with Duke based on what this article explains the differences as. Third-degree seems much more suited for things?

 

[QuietContrarian]

I'm not very educated on the different degrees of murder. As per What Do 2nd-Degree Murder, 3rd-Degree Murder, Manslaughter Charges Mean?:



I agree with Duke based on what this article explains the differences as. Third-degree seems much more suited for things?

2nd degree is higher risk higher reward.

Risk being harder to prove, reward being longer sentence.

3rd degree has a max sentence of 25 years in Minny.

2nd degree is just under 40 years in Minny.

2nd degree might aswell be life for the guy, 3rd degree would probably mean he gets to come out again.

 

[Jets 31]

I'm not very educated on the different degrees of murder. As per What Do 2nd-Degree Murder, 3rd-Degree Murder, Manslaughter Charges Mean?:



I agree with Duke based on what this article explains the differences as. Third-degree seems much more suited for things?

If there wasn't 10 minutes of video i would totally agree but with that video and probably 90% of people in the world seeing it i don't think he will get off. If there wasn't a video though all 4 cops would still be working right now and there in lies the whole problem.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

There is nothing wrong with donating publicly if you are a big name/brand. You donating will lead to other people donating and raising awareness, it is overall a good thing.

If you are only donating to look good though then you are a shitty person but in the eyes of those receiving the donation it is still better than not donating at all.

I am glad this thread was reopened, this is a discussion that needs to happen and though I understand it will be a lot of work to moderate and this is a hockey board, I am proud we are able to discuss things like this. People need to be educated, myself included, in the experiences of people who are black around the world and here at home.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I have never understood why Americans feel a need to pose with a “look at me” check when they donate. Donations are supposed to be done in private, not as a self promotion scheme.

A friend of mine runs food and shelter programs for the Los Angeles Mission, and has celebrities volunteer their time, unannounced, quite often.

Pharrell volunteered a full day there, and I love what my friend quoted him saying that day, that stuck with me.

He asked him if it was ok to post a picture of him on IG. Pharrell somewhat reluctantly agreed, stating:

"I came here to serve, not to shine....these are vastly different things."

 

[irunthepeg]

2nd degree is higher risk higher reward.

Risk being harder to prove, reward being longer sentence.

3rd degree has a max sentence of 25 years in Minny.

2nd degree is just under 40 years in Minny.

2nd degree might aswell be life for the guy, 3rd degree would probably mean he gets to come out again.

If there wasn't 10 minutes of video i would totally agree but with that video and probably 90% of people in the world seeing it i don't think he will get off. If there wasn't a video though all 4 cops would still be working right now and there in lies the whole problem.

Yeah, I fully admit I have no idea how any of that stuff works. The higher risk, higher reward thing makes sense.

A friend of mine runs programs for the Los Angeles Mission, and has celebrities volunteer their time, unannounced, quite often.

Pharrell volunteered a full day there, and I love what my friend quoted him saying that day that stuck with me:

"I came here to serve, not to shine....these are vastly different things."

Really cool to hear. Sadly, the ones who do it quietly are the ones we never think are that doing that much good in the world. Really makes you want to not assume anything about anyone.

 

[Duke749]

If there wasn't 10 minutes of video i would totally agree but with that video and probably 90% of people in the world seeing it i don't think he will get off. If there wasn't a video though all 4 cops would still be working right now and there in lies the whole problem.

It’s still going to be hard to prove he intentionally killed him and wasn’t just being reckless.