Player Discussion: Blake Wheeler on Situation in Minnesota - Read Mod note in OP

[QuietContrarian]

Kudos to Trouba for this...

I am not going to go deep into political debates on hf, as I kinda like you all, and differing opinions in politics can put a wedge between even the best of friends/family.

However, the word “white privileged male” just sends shivers down my spine.

As does the word white guilt and systemic racism aswell as reperations in this day and age.

My ears just close themselves after those words are utttered.

 

[Duke749]

Of course not, but as it is the police etc. have just been making it worse by adding fuel to the fires, including shooting rubber bullets and gassing media crews and using excessive force against peaceful protesters. That's very disturbing behaviour in a supposedly 'open' society. Also as long as a very large proportion of the population is angry, there's a situation to abuse for the people who want to. A lot of the people doing all the looting etc. currently are 'normal' people, who are acting out and getting caught in chaos. There's always trouble makers, but they can't make significant trouble unless a large enough portion of the normally peaceful people join them.

The little positive news lately have not been because of use of power and showing people their place, but because of actually listening to people and being level with them. I mean you can't first kill a pleading helpless man with excessive and brutal force and then deal with the ensuing riots with excessive force, or you can but I don't think that's the kind of country anyone wants to live in.

People on both sides are making it worse. Let’s quit pretending one side is bad and one has a right to cause problems. Military monuments have been destroyed by rioters. Businesses owned by African Americans have been destroyed by their own and others. Jobs are being lost because of massive riots at major stores in the time of a pandemic. People have had their cars attacked and vandalized for no reason whatsoever. People are protesting with signs to defund the police and them to stand Dow (or something to that effect) which would just cause even more chaos. Politicians don’t care and never have. And the few that do are never heard because it doesn’t generate clicks or great headlines for the media. When people stop trying to look up to politicians and celebrities and start making the change themselves, things may change. But constantly trying to look to the wrong people is going to achieve nothing. People need to stand beside each other in everyday life. Suddenly giving a dam all of the sudden isn’t accomplishing much right now. Maybe showing someone respect and courtesy in everyday life for once to these people that suddenly give a dam all of the sudden.

 

[KCjetsfan]

People on both sides are making it worse. Let’s quit pretending one side is bad and one has a right to cause problems. Military monuments have been destroyed by rioters. Businesses owned by African Americans have been destroyed by their own and others. Jobs are being lost because of massive riots at major stores in the time of a pandemic. People have had their cars attacked and vandalized for no reason whatsoever. People are protesting with signs to defund the police and them to stand Dow (or something to that effect) which would just cause even more chaos. Politicians don’t care and never have. And the few that do are never heard because it doesn’t generate clicks or great headlines for the media. When people stop trying to look up to politicians and celebrities and start making the change themselves, things may change. But constantly trying to look to the wrong people is going to achieve nothing. People need to stand beside each other in everyday life. Suddenly giving a dam all of the sudden isn’t accomplishing much right now. Maybe showing someone respect and courtesy in everyday life for once to these people that suddenly give a dam all of the sudden.

those poor confederate monuments. them and trump are the real victims here.

Since you responded to a comment about trump ordering the gassing of peaceful protesters, but have shifted to a more overall argument, i am curious as to whether 'both sides' were wrong last evening in DC in your opinion?

 

[lomiller1]

If there is no rule of law what exactly do you have?

There is a difference between rule of law and police state. The US is showing itself to be the latter.

Well when people start assaulting others and destroying property are we supposed to just let that happen? There’s a group of people that just want to see America burn.

Attacking reporters, marching though quite neighborhoods and shooting them up with rubber bullets to enforce obedience and assaulting people who have done nothing other than protest for their basic rights doesn’t seem like a good way to protect anything. The damage "law" enforcement is doing vastly outweighs the property damage they are supposedly trying to prevent.

There’s a group of people that just want to see America burn.

For good or ill, revolution is built into the American system as a last resort in the face of oppression and tyranny.

 

[koth]

I am not going to go deep into political debates on hf, as I kinda like you all, and differing opinions in politics can put a wedge between even the best of friends/family.

However, the word “white privileged male” just sends shivers down my spine.

As does the word white guilt and systemic racism aswell as reperations in this day and age.

My ears just close themselves after those words are utttered.

You're part of the problem when you close your ears and say this is a political debate.

This is not a political debate. This has nothing to do with politics. This is everything about human beings.

Educate yourself on what it's like to be a black person or an Aboriginal living in North America.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I am not going to go deep into political debates on hf, as I kinda like you all, and differing opinions in politics can put a wedge between even the best of friends/family.

However, the word “white privileged male” just sends shivers down my spine.

As does the word white guilt and systemic racism aswell as reperations in this day and age.

My ears just close themselves after those words are utttered.

White privilege is real. When I moved to the states for work, I was looking for an apartment. I called all 5 apartment complexes in the near vicinity to my work. Everyone of them was full. I was talking to a friend, 'dude, I can't find an apartment here. There is no vacancy'. He giggled and tells me. "Go drive up and walk into the leasing office. They won't acknowledge availability over the phone because they can't see what you look like (pasty white guy)." The next weekend, I went in to the three that seemed the best, and all three had multiple apartments available for me to move in.

Systemic racism is real. Scientifically, in genetics there is only one race that being the human race. The use of the word “race,” even when criticizing racism, is just reinforcing the false belief that human beings are of more than one race. Ethnic diversity and adaptive traits are often used to describe a difference in 'race'. The fact that the question of 'race' is on government forms is absolute proof of systemic racism.

 

[Analyst365]

You are definitely privileged when you get to use twitter to absolve yourself.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Everyone should watch this video and try to understand a perspective you have never experienced.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

These are thoughtful words by Wheels. More people should reflect deeply on what is happening.

The President of the United States yesterday stated that he would use the US Military against US Citizens on US Soil. The President of the United States tear gassed peaceful protesters (who have a constitutional right to protest where they were protesting), so that he could cross the street to take a picture of himself with a bible in front of an empty church. Reportedly some of the parishioners of that church were in the crowd that was tear gassed.

I don't understand why there is no outrage from other conservative minded people like me, or Republican legislators. Even the Military leaders are reportedly concerned. If a Democrat President had done the tear gassing, or called for using the US Military against US Citizens on US Soil, Fox News and Republicans would be running around with their hair on fire - rightfully so. But because it is Trump - crickets. The Hypocrisy is outrageous and disgusting.

We need more people with a public profile to have the balls like Wheeler to acknowledge that there is a problem and hopefully get commitments to meaningful change.

 

[Duke749]

those poor confederate monuments. them and trump are the real victims here.

Since you responded to a comment about trump ordering the gassing of peaceful protesters, but have shifted to a more overall argument, i am curious as to whether 'both sides' were wrong last evening in DC in your opinion?

No I’m not talking about the f***ing confederate monuments. I’m talking about war monuments and grave sites of fallen US soldiers within the last century. There are pics circulating on social media but they don’t get the same attention for some god known reason. There’s a guy I graduated with that is in the Georgia National Guard that has been posting pics from the rioters or sharing stuff from across the country. But again, that doesn’t divide the country the same way other things do.

EDIT: It really won’t matter either way because rioters will continue to overshadow anything good done right now and the media will always cover the bad and not the good.
There is another group of pics circulating from Indianapolis about a group of African American teens cleaning up the graffiti. There are people all over the country cleaning up the damage done but you won’t see that in the media. There was reportedly a Chick-fil-a with its windows smashed out giving away free sandwiches the other day.

 

[Tommigun]

I am not going to go deep into political debates on hf, as I kinda like you all, and differing opinions in politics can put a wedge between even the best of friends/family.

However, the word “white privileged male” just sends shivers down my spine.

As does the word white guilt and systemic racism aswell as reperations in this day and age.

My ears just close themselves after those words are utttered.

I am not convinced that blacks are in any way more susceptible to being killed by police than any race, see my prior post where I calculated on the stats. I came to the conclusion that it is absolutely equal odds for blacks and whites to be killed by the police if adjusted for violent crime rate per race. Some may find stats racist though so it's a touchy subject. I just don't think people should behave like this if it's not based on facts. But people are herd animals and do what is 'in' right now, even if not based in reality.

 

[Duke749]

“White privilege” just comes across as an insult. That itself can cause resentment. People need to STOP seeing color. It doesn’t help either side and people need to just see a person. We all know there is discrimination and racism and there likely always be. That will never fully be eliminated no matter how far we try and go. All this violence is not helping anything.

 

[Tommigun]

I am not going to go deep into political debates on hf, as I kinda like you all, and differing opinions in politics can put a wedge between even the best of friends/family.

However, the word “white privileged male” just sends shivers down my spine.

As does the word white guilt and systemic racism aswell as reperations in this day and age.

My ears just close themselves after those words are utttered.

Also, that is an American thing only. Finland, where I live, have never had slaves. They themselves have been enslaved though, so there is no "guilt" whatsoever here.

Also, it's unfair to blame the USA. Only 5% of the slaves that went into the Americas ended up in USA, the rest went to Brazil etc. USA was never a country with a substantial amount of slaves as compared to other countries. But facts have never prevented a nice outrage, have they?

 

[Tommigun]

I am not going to go deep into political debates on hf, as I kinda like you all, and differing opinions in politics can put a wedge between even the best of friends/family.

However, the word “white privileged male” just sends shivers down my spine.

As does the word white guilt and systemic racism aswell as reperations in this day and age.

My ears just close themselves after those words are utttered.

And one more thing; it's Trouba. Never seemed to have much of a personality so that's probably a calculated attempt to gain popularity.

 

[irunthepeg]

“White privilege” just comes across as an insult. That itself can cause resentment. People need to STOP seeing color. It doesn’t help either side and people need to just see a person. We all know there is discrimination and racism and there likely always be. That will never fully be eliminated no matter how far we try and go. All this violence is not helping anything.

I think if "white privilege" comes across as insulting to you, and I'm assuming you're white?, maybe it's something from your conscience. As a white person myself, I know I gain privilege from that. Watch the video JetsWillFly4Ever posted. As a white person, I never have to worry about being out and randomly worrying for my life just because of how I look. I know I don't have to worry about my skin colour affecting my job opportunities.

"People need to STOP seeing color." I think that's wrong now. Here's an article about a wrestler, Cody Rhodes, who's married to Brandi, who is black: Wrestler Cody Rhodes made an incredible speech about diversity that has gone viral | JOE.co.uk

"I am in an interracial marriage and I have learned a lot that I would have never known," Cody told reporters. "I told Brandi one time that I don’t see colour and she said 'well, then you don’t see my experience'".
"And I thought, 'oh, you can't just say that'. You need to be able to see that experience, or at least understand it."

I used to think similar to you in that sentiment of not seeing colour but in order to understand someone's perspective, we can't ignore things like colour. Like you said, there may very well be discrimination and racism for a long, long time, and if we choose to "not see colour" then we're turning a blind eye to that.

 

[irunthepeg]

People on both sides are making it worse. Let’s quit pretending one side is bad and one has a right to cause problems. Military monuments have been destroyed by rioters. Businesses owned by African Americans have been destroyed by their own and others. Jobs are being lost because of massive riots at major stores in the time of a pandemic. People have had their cars attacked and vandalized for no reason whatsoever. People are protesting with signs to defund the police and them to stand Dow (or something to that effect) which would just cause even more chaos. Politicians don’t care and never have. And the few that do are never heard because it doesn’t generate clicks or great headlines for the media. When people stop trying to look up to politicians and celebrities and start making the change themselves, things may change. But constantly trying to look to the wrong people is going to achieve nothing. People need to stand beside each other in everyday life. Suddenly giving a dam all of the sudden isn’t accomplishing much right now. Maybe showing someone respect and courtesy in everyday life for once to these people that suddenly give a dam all of the sudden.

While I don't believe destruction of property is in any way a "good" thing, I have a question for you. Do you see the destruction of military monuments worse or equal to people losing their lives based on the colour of their skin, which is something they had no control over?

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

“White privilege” just comes across as an insult. That itself can cause resentment. People need to STOP seeing color. It doesn’t help either side and people need to just see a person. We all know there is discrimination and racism and there likely always be. That will never fully be eliminated no matter how far we try and go. All this violence is not helping anything.

This is an ignorant take, watch the video I posted.

White privilege is the ability to do anything without having to worry about being discriminated based on the colour of your skin.

Stopping seeing colour pretends that the problem isn't there, saying 'there is racism and there always will be' is not going to help anything. The LA riots were almost 30 years ago, nothing has changed. Peaceful protest hasn't worked, Kap was called a SOB and essentially blacklisted for peacefully protesting. As MLK said: "A riot is the language of the unheard". It appears black people don't feel like they are being heard, and I don't blame them.

 

[KCjetsfan]

“White privilege” just comes across as an insult. That itself can cause resentment. People need to STOP seeing color. It doesn’t help either side and people need to just see a person. We all know there is discrimination and racism and there likely always be. That will never fully be eliminated no matter how far we try and go. All this violence is not helping anything.

you're contradicting yourself. how do you stop seeing color yet acknowledge there is discrimination and racism that will never go away based on color? 'It is what it is' is not a helpful response. It refuses to acknowledge the differences in experiences people have based solely the color of their skin, which you've already acknowledged happens.

Side note, as a white person, I'd rather be 'insulted' than dead.

 

[Duke749]

While I don't believe destruction of property is in any way a "good" thing, I have a question for you. Do you see the destruction of military monuments worse or equal to people losing their lives based on the colour of their skin, which is something they had no control over?

Either way you’re still disrespecting someone or something. Both are wrong. Does the severity of one make the other ok?

 

[Eyeseeing]

White privilege is real. When I moved to the states for work, I was looking for an apartment. I called all 5 apartment complexes in the near vicinity to my work. Everyone of them was full. I was talking to a friend, 'dude, I can't find an apartment here. There is no vacancy'. He giggled and tells me. "Go drive up and walk into the leasing office. They won't acknowledge availability over the phone because they can't see what you look like (pasty white guy)." The next weekend, I went in to the three that seemed the best, and all three had multiple apartments available for me to move in.

Systemic racism is real. Scientifically, in genetics there is only one race that being the human race. The use of the word “race,” even when criticizing racism, is just reinforcing the false belief that human beings are of more than one race. Ethnic diversity and adaptive traits are often used to describe a difference in 'race'. The fact that the question of 'race' is on government forms is absolute proof of systemic racism.

White privilege and white guilt are nonsense liberal terms in order to make ones self feel somehow more enlightened.
Every race is capable of extreme prejudices and inhuman behaviour towards not only other races but sometimes towards their own race.
Rival gangs of the same race routinely kill each other ... pick any race and they all operate the same.
Hatred and bigotry are a universal human trait not a white privileged trait.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

White privilege and white guilt are nonsense liberal terms in order to make ones self feel somehow more enlightened.
Every race is capable of extreme prejudices and inhuman behaviour towards not only other races but sometimes towards their own race.
Rival gangs of the same race routinely kill each other ... pick any race and they all operate the same.
Hatred and bigotry are a universal human trait not a white privileged trait.

Nobody is saying that is what white privilege is. Watch the video I posted, have an open mind. Educate yourself.

 

[KCjetsfan]

Either way you’re still disrespecting someone or something. Both are wrong. Does the severity of one make the other ok?

well, that's telling.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think I am still optimistic by nature but some issues seem bigger than others. Mort you and I have more years under our belt than most on this site. Do you think we will see an end to racial injustice in our life time? This is not rhetorical I am wondering what your take is? When I was a kid I assumed this stuff would sort itself out in my lifetime.

I remember before I fired “following politics” from my life I use to watch the round table on NBC. They had an expert on international relations as a guest and they were digging in for the millionth time on the Middle East crisis. When the interviewer pressed him on what a solution for the problem might look like he referenced how long the conflict had been in place and said:

“sometimes there are no solutions to problems, the only option is to manage them”

At the time I felt he was being cynical but decades later looking back maybe I was being naive?

Racial injustice will never end. We are tribal in nature. We look for ways to associate ourselves with groups. But we are making progress. It isn't linear though. It is 2 steps forward and 1 step back. The emergence of Trump has been several steps back. He has emboldened bigots and legitimized ignorance.

I have a naivete story too. I remember noticing that there were beginning to be black cops and thinking that would make a difference. But cops are tribal too. Their tribe is all the other cops. Their culture emphasizes having each others backs and supporting each other over everything else. I don't know how that gets changed. Until it does, the bigoted thugs will continue to murder and get away with it.

Edit: This too shall pass. Trump and Trumpism won't last. Society will swing in the other direction.

 

[irunthepeg]

Either way you’re still disrespecting someone or something. Both are wrong. Does the severity of one make the other ok?

Are you equating the destruction of property to be worse than losing one's life? I didn't say destruction of property is good. But there is something very messed up, to me, to believe that property being f***ed up is somehow worse than a black person losing their life because they're black.

Duke, I really like and respect your posts in terms of hockey on this board. I have for many years. I'm asking you, even though I am a complete stranger, to do some self-reflection and think about this.

 

[H3ckt1k]

White privilege and white guilt are nonsense liberal terms in order to make ones self feel somehow more enlightened.
Every race is capable of extreme prejudices and inhuman behaviour towards not only other races but sometimes towards their own race.
Rival gangs of the same race routinely kill each other ... pick any race and they all operate the same.
Hatred and bigotry are a universal human trait not a white privileged trait.

lol