Player Discussion: Blake Wheeler on Situation in Minnesota - Read Mod note in OP

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Duke749

Savannah Ghost Pirates
Apr 6, 2010
47,997
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Canton, Georgia
This is an ignorant take, watch the video I posted.

White privilege is the ability to do anything without having to worry about being discriminated based on the colour of your skin.

Stopping seeing colour pretends that the problem isn't there, saying 'there is racism and there always will be' is not going to help anything. The LA riots were almost 30 years ago, nothing has changed. Peaceful protest hasn't worked, Kap was called a SOB and essentially blacklisted for peacefully protesting. As MLK said: "A riot is the language of the unheard". It appears black people don't feel like they are being heard, and I don't blame them.

Saying I’m “white privilege” still sees color. Why are we seeing color in this? That is my problem. It doesn’t pretend there isn’t a problem but I refuse to see color. I am not going to judge someone on how they look. If that makes me ignorant then so be it.
 

Tommigun

Registered User
Jan 5, 2018
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Are you equating the destruction of property to be worse than losing one's life? I didn't say destruction of property is good. But there is something very messed up, to me, to believe that property being f***ed up is somehow worse than a black person losing their life because they're black.

Duke, I really like and respect your posts in terms of hockey on this board. I have for many years. I'm asking you, even though I am a complete stranger, to do some self-reflection and think about this.

And the guy will be charged for it, there is a process for that. So why start destroying shit? The world is becoming insane.

People are just making up excuses to justify the looting. Crazy.
 
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Duke749

Savannah Ghost Pirates
Apr 6, 2010
47,997
23,188
Canton, Georgia
Are you equating the destruction of property to be worse than losing one's life? I didn't say destruction of property is good. But there is something very messed up, to me, to believe that property being f***ed up is somehow worse than a black person losing their life because they're black.

Duke, I really like and respect your posts in terms of hockey on this board. I have for many years. I'm asking you, even though I am a complete stranger, to do some self-reflection and think about this.

I was not saying that. And I made sure not to accuse you of suggesting one is ok because the other was so severe even though one could easily, and ignorantly, make that assumption. All I’m saying is both are wrong. One being worse does not mean the other is ok. Wrong is wrong no matter the severity. That’s my main point.
 
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JetsWillFly4Ever

Registered User
May 21, 2011
6,301
9,302
Winnipeg MB.
Saying I’m “white privilege” still sees color. Why are we seeing color in this? That is my problem. It doesn’t pretend there isn’t a problem but I refuse to see color. I am not going to judge someone on how they look. If that makes me ignorant then so be it.
Because colour is real! You can't possibly think your experience in life is the same as a black person's? Have you ever worried that you would be shot when pulled over by the cops? Have you ever been pulled over for no reason other than what you look like? Are you afraid to scare white people because your race has been portrayed as 'thugs' for so long? I know I haven't.

You can't just claim 'I don't see colour' and ignore every issue colour has caused. That's not how it works.

Yes everyone should be treated equally and in a utopia nobody would have ever seen colour, but that's not real life and ignoring the racial injustices done in the past and still happening today because 'I don't see colour' is bullshit.
 

irunthepeg

Board man gets paid
May 20, 2010
35,289
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The Peg, Canada
Saying I’m “white privilege” still sees color. Why are we seeing color in this? That is my problem. It doesn’t pretend there isn’t a problem but I refuse to see color. I am not going to judge someone on how they look. If that makes me ignorant then so be it.

Because COLOUR matters in this situation. You saying you're not going to judge someone based on how they look is what people want. But colour still matters. Because only particular coloured people are being discriminated against. Hence, white privilege. I, as a white person, don't get discriminated against because I'm white.

And the guy will be charged for it, there is a process for that. So why start destroying shit? The world is becoming insane.

People are just making up excuses to justify the looting. Crazy.

I will say, I think there are people out there looting and destroying, just because there's an excuse to loot and destroy. And that is wrong. I think white people should be at these protests to physically show support by being there and to form protection from police while POC do what they need to. Now, do I think looting and destroying and rioting are RIGHT? No. But we've seen what peaceful protests do. NOTHING. If they had, Colin Kaepernick wouldn't have been blackballed from the NFL for simply KNEELING during a f***ing song. In a time where nobody needed to be affected by anything when they could simply watch a GAME being played on TV. He tried to peacefully protest. And was shredded for it. Look at all the other peaceful protests. I bet most of us can't name any close to any of them... why? Because they didn't do anything. So I don't blame people who've been oppressed, some for their entire lives, for now doing things that I wouldn't normally consider "right."
 

Tommigun

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Jan 5, 2018
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Because COLOUR matters in this situation. You saying you're not going to judge someone based on how they look is what people want. But colour still matters. Because only particular coloured people are being discriminated against. Hence, white privilege. I, as a white person, don't get discriminated against because I'm white.



I will say, I think there are people out there looting and destroying, just because there's an excuse to loot and destroy. And that is wrong. I think white people should be at these protests to physically show support by being there and to form protection from police while POC do what they need to. Now, do I think looting and destroying and rioting are RIGHT? No. But we've seen what peaceful protests do. NOTHING. If they had, Colin Kaepernick wouldn't have been blackballed from the NFL for simply KNEELING during a f***ing song. In a time where nobody needed to be affected by anything when they could simply watch a GAME being played on TV. He tried to peacefully protest. And was shredded for it. Look at all the other peaceful protests. I bet most of us can't name any close to any of them... why? Because they didn't do anything. So I don't blame people who've been oppressed, some for their entire lives, for now doing things that I wouldn't normally consider "right."

Who will protect the police then if 'white people should protect the black from the police'? Policemen have died in the riots. If I was there I'd protect the police who are unjustly attacked by a villainous mob, while on a dangerous job protecting the public and their property.

How many policemen must die before Floyd is avenged? I thought we were over the lynch mob 'justice' but seems like we are back in medieval times.
 
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irunthepeg

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Who will protect the police then if 'white people should protect the black from the police'? Policemen have died in the riots. If I was there I'd protect the police who are unjustly attacked by a villainous mob, while on a dangerous job protecting the public and their property.

How did this whole particular situation start? A policeman murdered someone. I've seen the video. Have you? Do you think George Floyd did something to warrant being killed on the street? If you have 1,000 good cops and 15 bad cops but those 1,000 never do anything to correct or call out the 15 bad cops you have 1,015 bad cops. None of that officer's peers did anything to stop him from killing George Floyd. And I don't recall seeing Floyd fight back, pull a knife, pull a gun or swing at the officer. All I recall is him shouting for his mother before he died.

Do you think those same police need protection for "protecting" others?

If there was no public outcry for this whole situation, do you think that cop that killed George Floyd would even have been arrested? I have my doubts.
 

Tommigun

Registered User
Jan 5, 2018
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How did this whole particular situation start? A policeman murdered someone. I've seen the video. Have you? Do you think George Floyd did something to warrant being killed on the street? If you have 1,000 good cops and 15 bad cops but those 1,000 never do anything to correct or call out the 15 bad cops you have 1,015 bad cops. None of that officer's peers did anything to stop him from killing George Floyd. And I don't recall seeing Floyd fight back, pull a knife, pull a gun or swing at the officer. All I recall is him shouting for his mother before he died.

Do you think those same police need protection for "protecting" others?

If there was no public outcry for this whole situation, do you think that cop that killed George Floyd would even have been arrested? I have my doubts.

The ones responsible for a crime will be prosecuted.

The policemen who died in the riots are innocent and were murdered as well. They also had families. How many more policemen will die before enough blood has been spilled? How can people think this is morally right?
 
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kcin94

Registered User
Jul 17, 2011
1,169
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“White privilege” just comes across as an insult. That itself can cause resentment. People need to STOP seeing color. It doesn’t help either side and people need to just see a person. We all know there is discrimination and racism and there likely always be. That will never fully be eliminated no matter how far we try and go. All this violence is not helping anything.

White privilege is not by itself an insult. Neither is any kind of privilege. People have all types of privilege. Living in North America on it's own is a privilege over living in a lot of the world. Being born into a rich family is a privilege.

However understanding you have that privilege leads to empathy. I don't come from a rich family, but not a poor one either. In other words I was privileged. I had parents who loved me. That's a privilege. Yes, I'm white. In a lot of the world, that's a privilege. It shouldn't be, but it is.

When I look at people less privileged than me. I don't feel like I owe them something. I don't feel like I need to do something for them. That may make me look bad, but in my opinion, that's not what it's about.

However, unlike some people (not singling out anyone, but we all know a few) who claim that privilege doesn't exist, I don't look at someone less privileged and think that they should just work harder, or get over it, or anybody giving them a handout is offensive, or the worst one that somehow it's an attack on me.

Ignoring that to "stop seeing color" will not make it go away. In a fantasy it might, but it doesn't work like that.

My favourite analogy (which is flawed I know) is if you put cold water in a glass and room temperature in a glass in a room with room temperature. The cold water will warm up, but will never be the same temperature as the other glass. The only way to make that happen is to add hot water into the glass.
 

irunthepeg

Board man gets paid
May 20, 2010
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The Peg, Canada
The ones responsible for a crime will be prosecuted.

The policemen who died in the riots are innocent and were murdered as well. They also had families. How many more policemen will die before enough blood has been spilled? How can people think this is morally right?

I don't think policemen dying is morally right. I saw a post on Twitter where it said "these policemen just want to go home to their families." With an accompanying post saying "so did George Floyd" and so did the countless other people who lost their lives to unprovoked police brutality. Nobody is arguing that police dying in these riots is right. The reason this is happening is because innocent black people are dying because of corrupt police officers, and nobody in power has done anything about it. Nobody is stopping it. It just keeps carrying on as another case happens. You do see how that would be angering if you were a black person and you ran the risk of dying every time you stepped outside of your house simply for being black? That a police officer could profile you and force you to the ground for no reason.
 

Tommigun

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Jan 5, 2018
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I don't think policemen dying is morally right. I saw a post on Twitter where it said "these policemen just want to go home to their families." With an accompanying post saying "so did George Floyd" and so did the countless other people who lost their lives to unprovoked police brutality. Nobody is arguing that police dying in these riots is right. The reason this is happening is because innocent black people are dying because of corrupt police officers, and nobody in power has done anything about it. Nobody is stopping it. It just keeps carrying on as another case happens. You do see how that would be angering if you were a black person and you ran the risk of dying every time you stepped outside of your house simply for being black? That a police officer could profile you and force you to the ground for no reason.

If that was the case and happened to me, I would be angered for sure. But I wouldn't start killing officers for that.
 
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irunthepeg

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May 20, 2010
35,289
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If that was the case and happened to me, I would be annoyed for sure. But I wouldn't start killing officers for that.

I think it's much easier to say that from a point of view where I've never watched or heard about family and friends being killed because of our heritage/skin colour. I don't think I'd be simply annoyed. The point of the protesters isn't killing police officers. I'd argue there's likely a lot more innocent black people being murdered over this issue than there are innocent police officers. I don't have the stats to back it up, but I'd wager on that bet. Again, I think there are people taking advantage of the fact that riots are simply happening as an excuse to be involved in riots. I saw a video on Twitter of some idiot dressed up like The Joker dancing around like the character on the streets. People like that aren't helping. They're there for themselves. The people who truly care about this are there because they care about freedom for those who are oppressed. Like I stated earlier in a different post, white people going to these protests shouldn't be rioting or looting. They should be simply standing there in solidarity and defending black people. And if that means separating black protesters from police then so be it.
 

Hammettf2b

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Jul 9, 2012
22,564
4,695
So California
It wont change until better cops are being produced. Problem is, fewer and fewer ppl want to become a cop in the US thus the system settling for lower standard ppl. There needs to be better standards and far better training in the US police departments.
 
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Tommigun

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Jan 5, 2018
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I think it's much easier to say that from a point of view where I've never watched or heard about family and friends being killed because of our heritage/skin colour. I don't think I'd be simply annoyed. The point of the protesters isn't killing police officers. I'd argue there's likely a lot more innocent black people being murdered over this issue than there are innocent police officers. I don't have the stats to back it up, but I'd wager on that bet. Again, I think there are people taking advantage of the fact that riots are simply happening as an excuse to be involved in riots. I saw a video on Twitter of some idiot dressed up like The Joker dancing around like the character on the streets. People like that aren't helping. They're there for themselves. The people who truly care about this are there because they care about freedom for those who are oppressed. Like I stated earlier in a different post, white people going to these protests shouldn't be rioting or looting. They should be simply standing there in solidarity and defending black people. And if that means separating black protesters from police then so be it.

"I think it's much easier to say that from a point of view where I've never watched or heard about family and friends being killed because of our heritage/skin colour."

Nah, it's just basic moral values and a good upbringing. I take it for granted that you don't kill officers. Not under any circumstances.
 

irunthepeg

Board man gets paid
May 20, 2010
35,289
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The Peg, Canada
"I think it's much easier to say that from a point of view where I've never watched or heard about family and friends being killed because of our heritage/skin colour."

Nah, it's just basic moral values and a good upbringing. I take it for granted that you don't kill officers. Not under any circumstances.

In a perfect world where police officers are not corruptible and only stand for protecting EVERY civilian, that is easy to comply with. Not so much when humans are able to become police officers.
 

Jetfaninflorida

Southernmost Jet Fan
Dec 13, 2013
15,695
18,986
Florida
White privilege and white guilt are nonsense liberal terms in order to make ones self feel somehow more enlightened.
Every race is capable of extreme prejudices and inhuman behaviour towards not only other races but sometimes towards their own race.
Rival gangs of the same race routinely kill each other ... pick any race and they all operate the same.
Hatred and bigotry are a universal human trait not a white privileged trait.


So you don't agree with the term 'White privilege', because you view it as a liberal term. Not sure what you mean here by liberal, but by the context it sounds like you are using it as a pejorative.

Setting the term aside, how would you describe what I experienced as a white person looking for an apartment? Do you at least agree that I was provided a benefit that someone of color may not have been given? Let me repost what happened to me:

When I moved to the states for work, I was looking for an apartment. I called all 5 apartment complexes in the near vicinity to my work. Everyone of them was full. I was talking to a friend, 'dude, I can't find an apartment here. There is no vacancy'. He giggled and tells me. "Go drive up and walk into the leasing office. They won't acknowledge availability over the phone because they can't see what you look like (pasty white guy)." The next weekend, I went in to the three that seemed the best, and all three had multiple apartments available for me to move in.

As an FYI, there is only one human race.
 

Tommigun

Registered User
Jan 5, 2018
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So you don't agree with the term 'White privilege', because you view it as a liberal term. Not sure what you mean here by liberal, but by the context it sounds like you are using it as a pejorative.

Setting the term aside, how would you describe what I experienced as a white person looking for an apartment? Do you at least agree that I was provided a benefit that someone of color may not have been given? Let me repost what happened to me:

When I moved to the states for work, I was looking for an apartment. I called all 5 apartment complexes in the near vicinity to my work. Everyone of them was full. I was talking to a friend, 'dude, I can't find an apartment here. There is no vacancy'. He giggled and tells me. "Go drive up and walk into the leasing office. They won't acknowledge availability over the phone because they can't see what you look like (pasty white guy)." The next weekend, I went in to the three that seemed the best, and all three had multiple apartments available for me to move in.

As an FYI, there is only one human race.

"Setting the term aside, how would you describe what I experienced as a white person looking for an apartment?"

It is always important to understand what is cause and what is effect. If, for example, there had been prior unpleasant tenants of a specific race/socio-economic group, it is natural for the hosts to be aversive of renting out to them. On the other hand, if it's not based on any personal experiences/facts and is pure prejudice, then it is unfortunate and immoral.

Change needs to also come from the black communities themselves. The current murdering spree will set them back a lot in this regard and doesn't do them any favours.

Personally I don't think this will ever end as it's just too polarising for you guys over there, and I'm sorry for that.
 
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BatVader

"nothing is true; everything is permitted"
May 16, 2015
12,838
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Imperial Gotham
White privilege doesn’t mean you haven’t had a hard life... it means that the colour of your skin wasn’t a factor in any of that hardship.
It means you are given the benefit of the doubt and not immediately judged and dismissed based solely on your skin tone.
It means every door of opportunity is always, at the very least, a crack open instead of closed, locked, and barred.
It means you are given a chance to explain instead of being brushed off, locked up, and forgotten about.
It means you are immediately granted the basic rights of being human, instead being considered and treated like an inferior subclass of humanity.
 
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NotCommitted

Registered User
Jul 4, 2013
2,819
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The ones responsible for a crime will be prosecuted.

The policemen who died in the riots are innocent and were murdered as well. They also had families. How many more policemen will die before enough blood has been spilled? How can people think this is morally right?

It's not a moral dilemma or an exercise in logic and I don't see people arguing it's morally right. I think you are missing the scope of what's happening, things are out of hand. Also it was only the 1 policeman who was arrested this far, the other 3 who just stood by and watched are still on the loose though suspended. I don't think people have that much faith in the system as it is.

Just a couple weeks ago the police in another state broke into the wrong house and shot the couple who lived there. It was not the home of criminals, the woman was a first responder and was shot 8 times into her bed. There was no trace of the drugs they were searching for in that house and allegedly they were searching for a person they had already arrested earlier that day. The details around this incident are extremely shady, many witness reports claim the officers didn't even announce themselves or that they were from the police before breaking down the door. Imagine the police broke the doors of your house and killed you and your significant other just because they suspected you of something, or suspected someone they suspect of something might be in the house. Or imagine it happened to your brother, your sister, son, cousin, whatever. That kind of thing happens in the US pretty regularly. Going by stats and averages, the police in the US kill more people in 3 days than the police in Finland kill in 10 years. They have roughly 60 times as much people, trying to crudely adjust for that, it would still mean over 20 times as many fatal police shootings. But there's no video of that, but there is a video of a black man being slowly strangled to death by a police officer, while 3 other police officers stand by. Said black man is pleading for help, begging for mercy, crying for his mother, meanwhile 4 police officers kill him, slowly but surely. Let's face it, those 3 officers standing by doing nothing are just as guilty as the one doing the choking.

Some of the police shootings etc. you can probably rationalize and explain away, or at least somehow emotionally understand as a scared officer with a gun in a bad situation making a bad call, but there's none of that here or in many other cases, which come off more as massacres than anything else. I'm sure most of the police officers are good people, I only know 1 US police officer personally and she is one of the most amazing human beings I've ever met, but that doesn't change anything about the deep systematic problems there. It's been like that for decades, nothing seems to change. The first responses to these protests and eventual riots were all wrong and it starts from the top down. There was no sense of hearing the people, Mr. President himself was just provoking people. It's not the police officers' fault but as it is, they represent the state and are the hammer that hits the nail. It's not fair to them. There seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel, local people rising up to turn away "protesters" who have come from elsewhere just to riot, some police chiefs etc. showing understanding and compassion instead of driving police vehicles into the crowd.

It's a lot of bent up emotion and anger set loose on the world, the COVID restrictions and tanking economy certainly play a part I'm sure, people have lost jobs etc. and seemingly have nothing left to loose, enough things pile up and some people go crazy, enough people go crazy and people get dragged into it just because of being in the wrong place in the wrong time. This far the authorities have handled things very poorly, they have not acted in ways to calm things down, they have needlessly provoked things further. Sometimes the use of force is necessary, but it's a fine line and use of excessive force in a situation that don't seemingly need any looks very bad. Just because people act like idiots, doesn't mean the authorities should act the same. It's reasonable to expect and hold the police, military etc. to a higher standard than a rioting crowd. That doesn't mean the crowd is 'right'.

Bottom line, it's easy for someone like myself, who isn't there, to act all sane and logical and high and mighty, but the reality of the situation is it's extremely complex and runs deep and there probably is no easy ways out at this point. I mean if it was my neighborhood that was burned down by rioting idiots, my post would probably look very different. Anyway, best case at least something good will come out of it all.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
29,834
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Evanston, IL
I wholeheartedly approve of Wheeler's message, and I'm proud of him as our captain to come out and clearly state it. However, as much as I think this is a conversation worth having, this is not the place. We have a no-politics rule on here, and unless something drastically changes, we will stand by it. Closed.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
29,834
22,126
Evanston, IL
Because of the severity and importance of the situation, we are going to try to open this up again.

Note that if this becomes a partisan political discussion, which it was in danger of becoming when I closed it, and it creates an unreasonable amount of work for the moderators, we have no choice but to close it down.

To add onto the OP:

Wheeler's thoughts:



DeMelo's thoughts:



Statement from the Jets:



A multitude of other NHLers have also spoken out about this. From what I have seen, most of these statements have had the same tone.

I hope that we can keep this thread open, because I think it's a discussion that not only should, but must, be had. To do that, as per admin instruction, we are free to discuss what teams and players are saying regarding this. Discussing what random people are saying about this, however, is not allowed. Sharing your own thoughts and experiences is obviously okay, but keep it contained to this issue.

If you feel so strongly about this topic that you will be unable to participate without hurling insults toward other users, instead of trying to explain your view or share your experiences, I highly recommend you turn around and go to a strictly hockey-related thread.

We are all adults here, and this is an issue that affects people globally, and at a scale where people feel so desperate that they're taking to the streets in frustration. Please keep the discussion civil.
 
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