Better Player at their Peak: Ilya Kovalchuk vs Nikita Kucherov

[Fataldogg]

Kovalchuk. Absolute machine on the ice who never had the surrounding talent that Kucherov has.

 

[the]

Kovalcuk ainec

 

[Mickey Marner]

Lol, Kovalchuk was one of my favourite players and I think the romanticism in this thread is ridiculous. He wasnt even that much better of a goal scorer and was generally brutal defensively outside of a year and half under Lemaire.

 

[The Nuge]

Prime, I take Kovalchuk as of now, but Kucherov’s 1 peak season is the best.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Kucherov without hesitation and I’ve been watching hockey long before Kovalchuk ever stepped foot on North American ice so you can save the “you must be new to watching hockey” crap.

 

[Albatros]

The purpose of "tilting the ice" is so pucks go into the net.

Where the eye test falls apart is when guys "look" impressive but don't have the production (over large samples) to match how good they look, versus a guy who doesn't "look" impressive but seems to fill the net at an astonishing rate.

I don't give a shit about how Kovalchuk or Lindros or Forsberg or anyone else you throw out there "looks". I want to see what benefit they get from tilting the ice - and that's reflected in the wins column and the scoresheet.

Kovalchuk had six straight seasons with 40+ goals. Many of those goals required him to skate through the opposition on his own. To criticize him for not getting that many wins with AHLers as linemates is just bullshit.

 

[nowhereman]

This is very clearly Kucherov, elite team or not. The guy had close to 130 points in his Hart-winning season.

But I must have only started watching hockey since Kucherov came into the league and have never seen Kovalchuk play, obviously, so what do I know?

 

[BLNY]

Kovalchuk had six straight seasons with 40+ goals. Many of those goals required him to skate through the opposition on his own. To criticize him for not getting that many wins with AHLers as linemates is just bullshit.

He played his peak years in the dead puck era too. Prime Kovy would be lighting this league up.

 

[Regal]

He played his peak years in the dead puck era too. Prime Kovy would be lighting this league up.

The majority of his prime was after the lockout with ample PP time and similar scoring to today

 

[BLNY]

The majority of his prime was after the lockout with ample PP time and similar scoring to today

Nope. The game between work stoppages wasn't nearly as wide open as the current era. Just cause it was an improvement over 95-05 doesn't mean it was as open for speed as it is today. Kuch would still be a better 200ft player, but Kovy's goal scoring would only elevate in the modern game.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Kucherov is the smarter player.

 

[IdontSpitOnTheIce]

Kovalchuck kinda has a unique style. One of the most exciting sniper I’ve watched.

 

[Offtheboard412]

I'm a huge fan of Kovalchuk. He was an amazing player one of the funnest to watch with one of the best shots ever. With that said this is Kucherov easily and by a big margin. Can't believe there are any votes for Kovalchuk.

 

[biturbo19]

Kovalchuk in his prime, with the kind of supporting cast Kucherov has had in Tampa, would've be absolutely insane.

 

[North Cole]

Kucherov for me, but Kovalchuk was one of the most electric players I ever watched. His grainy SC top 10 is still nuts by todays standards. Guy had one of the best snap shots I've ever seen with speed to burn...Kucherov is leagues better as a play maker though and the trifecta puts his peak over the edge IMO.

 

[Video Nasty]

The votes have Kucherov winning in a landslide, but many of the Kovalchuk voters chose to comment, so I'm responding to that.

I don't know if I've ever seen such a great player as Kucherov get disrespected on a near constant basis, as he does around here.

He missed the entire 2020-2021 campaign and still has the 6th most points across the entire NHL over the last 5 seasons. He's second in PPG.

He won a Hart, Lindsay, and Art Ross. Until McDavid and a full healthy season for 2021-2022, his 128 points are the most since Mario and Jagr in the 1995-1996 season.

His 27 assists in last years playoffs are the most ever in a playoff run by someone not named Gretzky and Lemieux.

Kovalchuk was an excellent player and fun to watch, but he's no Kucherov.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Kovalchuk in his prime, with the kind of supporting cast Kucherov has had in Tampa, would've be absolutely insane.

Marian Hossa isn't exactly an anchor to have on your line.

 

[BostonBruins11]

Kovalchuk, won the Rocket with almost zero support.

He played with prime Marc Savard.
One of the best playmakers of that era

 

[Albatros]

Savard had four primary assists to Kovalchuk's goals in his Rocket-winning season (Frantisek Kaberle had ten), it wasn't exactly Hull & Oates with them.

 

[ricky0034]

Most people here obviously either just started watching hockey or have a terrible memory because the answer is Kovalchuk and it's not close. He was basically a bigger and faster version of Patrick Kane who either played with a terrible supporting cast or through bad injuries.

Kucherov won an Art Ross by 12 points(and lead his team in points by 30)

people really exaggerate his lack of support on those Thrashers teams too, he had a couple years where he lead his team by 30 points or so because of guys having down years or missing games for various reasons(injuries, getting traded during the season etc) but most years he had guys like Heatley,Hossa,Kozlov,Savard either ahead of him or just behind him in points and then in New Jersey he had Elias right up there with him in production and guys like Zajac and Parise around as well

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Excellent poll. Shows that about 75% of voters didn't see Kovy during his peak. No disrespect to Kuch, he's also fantastic.

 

[trentmccleary]

Kovalchuk was a lazy cherry picker who abandoned defensive play to pad his stats. Kucherov, hands down!

Career EVGA / GP

Player	EVGA/GP
Kucherov	0.66
Kovalchuk	0.91

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That 0.25 difference may not look like much, but it's 20 extra goals against per 82 game season.

 

[Mobiandi]

Kovy by an absolute mile

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

He’s only 27 ffs wait a few years

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Kovalchuk was a lazy cherry picker who abandoned defensive play to pad his stats. Kucherov, hands down!

Career EVGA / GP

Player	EVGA/GP
Kucherov	0.66
Kovalchuk	0.91

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That 0.25 difference may not look like much, but it's 20 extra goals against per 82 game season.

I agree Kucherov is the better player (and find a lot of the Kovalchuk romanticism in this thread puzzling) - but wouldn't you agree that this says a lot about their teams, rather than their individual performance?

Kucherov played seven seasons so far - five of which were in front of a Vezina finalist, and four of which were in front of a Norris finalist. Kucherov missed the entire 2021 regular season and the Lightning's rank in goals against actually improved. (Yes, it's a shortened season with a weird schedule, but that's evidence that he's not that important to his team's goal prevention - though the numbers clearly show he's vital to their offense).

Kovalchuk started on a team only two years out from expansion. They ranked last and 2nd last in goals against before he joined. After he joined, they ranked last, 6th worst, 7th worst, league average (2007), then two more years finishing last and 2nd last in goals against. The Thrashers then ranked 3rd worst in 2011 (the first full year without Kovalchuk). Sure, you can argue that Kovalchuk didn't help his team much defensively, but the Thrashers were terrible at goal prevention both before and after his time there, so it's not like he was the root cause of the Thrashers' problem.

I think there's some value in comparing goals against data between players, but the team context here is so different the comparison is meaningless.