Better Player at their Peak: Ilya Kovalchuk vs Nikita Kucherov

[Thenameless]

I didn't believe in Kucherov a few seasons ago, but he's changed my mind. Kucherov.

 

[Ivo]

I’m shocked people are actually voting Kovalchuk here.

“He had no help” sure but he was also fed tons of favourable minutes because of it. If all he needed was more help to score more, why would he only score 76 points when Hossa scored 100 on the same team? (he was also outscored by Vyacheslav Kozlov that year)

To be fair, Kozlov was being carried by Hossa on the same line. Kovalchuk played on another line. But you make a good point. Hossa was clearly better than Kovalchuk when they were on the same team. Kucherov is also clearly better.

 

[jbeck5]

Kucherov. Kovalchuk never put up the numbers kucherov is putting and it's not like he didn't have elite players to play with like Heatley, Hossa, Savard, etc.

Sure, Atlanta wasn't a deep or good team, but with one of the best playmakers in the game in Savard, one of the best snipers in the game in Heatley, and one of the best 2 way players in the game in Hossa, he had the means to rack up points, but couldn't do so at kucherovs level.

So it's kucherov for me.

 

[wetcoast]

Kucherov. Kovalchuk never put up the numbers kucherov is putting and it's not like he didn't have elite players to play with like Heatley, Hossa, Savard, etc.

Sure, Atlanta wasn't a deep or good team, but with one of the best playmakers in the game in Savard, one of the best snipers in the game in Heatley, and one of the best 2 way players in the game in Hossa, he had the means to rack up points, but couldn't do so at kucherovs level.

So it's kucherov for me.

This for me but I'm not a huge fan of either player overall.

Kovo tends to get under rated by playing for a poor team and being more of a goal scorer and Kuch plays in an ideal situation and is a fantasy beast but isn't as impactful overall as his counting stats suggest.

 

[bobbyking]

Correct.

Put Kucherov on the Thrashers and see how he would have done.

he still would beat kovis best

 

[River Meadow]

Y'all trifling

 

[River Meadow]

So you have anyone above Kovalchuk Lindros and Forsberg in points as better talents?

Interesting. So you think Messier is actually the second greatest player ever, dont you?

People need to address the points above, since y'all saying POINTS = BETTER PLAYER.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Y'all trifling

Seriously.

It's Kovalchuk, rather easily for me.

Calling those Thrasher teams hot garbage would be an insult to hot garbage.

And apparently we're all going to ignore the fact that Kovalchuk played in a much lower scoring NHL?

 

[Regal]

Seriously.

It's Kovalchuk, rather easily for me.

Calling those Thrasher teams hot garbage would be an insult to hot garbage.

And apparently we're all going to ignore the fact that Kovalchuk played in a much lower scoring NHL?

He didn't really though. Outside of 03-04, his prime was all after the lockout, which wasn't much different in terms of scoring than Kucherov's career. GPG was a bit lower, but PP time was much higher which meant that scoring was more concentrated at the top, and Kovalchuk in particular was given gobs of PP time. League GPG in 05-06 was 3.02 compared to 2.98 in 18-19, and Kovalchuk was on the 5th highest scoring team with fellow 90 point players in Savard and Hossa, and played over 8 minutes a game on the PP. He still was 30 points short of Kucherov's top season.

 

[authentic]

Seriously.

It's Kovalchuk, rather easily for me.

Calling those Thrasher teams hot garbage would be an insult to hot garbage.

And apparently we're all going to ignore the fact that Kovalchuk played in a much lower scoring NHL?

2005-06 and 2006-07 were just as high and it especially benefitted someone like Kovalchuk who had like 5-7 powerplay minutes per game lol

 

[JasonRoseEh]

It's close, but Kovalchuk. The result here is hilarious.

 

[nashpreds]

It’s Kucherov

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Kovalchuk was both the leagues best goal scorer and one of the best 2 way wingers in the game, but he was never both at the same time. 52 goal Kovalchuk was not NJ Kovalchuk, they were completely different players. Absolute peak, the answer is Kucherov, who would’ve likely outperformed Kovalchuk on a powerplay with Marc Savard and Marian Hossa as well.

 

[psycat]

It’s Kucherov

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Kovalchuk was both the leagues best goal scorer and one of the best 2 way wingers in the game, but he was never both at the same time. 52 goal Kovalchuk was not NJ Kovalchuk, they were completely different players. Absolute peak, the answer is Kucherov, who would’ve likely outperformed Kovalchuk on a powerplay with Marc Savard and Marian Hossa as well.

I mean to be fair the vast majority are voting for Kucherov so I don't get your first sentence.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Slightly off-topic, does anyone remember if that Kovy, Hossa and Savard line had a nickname?

I think Kovalchuk had more pure talent and had more physical tools, but Kucherov just seems to produce.

 

[drktmplr12]

And I've been watching hockey for well over 30 years, and my memory is great.

yes but what about your brain?

is it BIG?

 

[authentic]

He didn't really though. Outside of 03-04, his prime was all after the lockout, which wasn't much different in terms of scoring than Kucherov's career. GPG was a bit lower, but PP time was much higher which meant that scoring was more concentrated at the top, and Kovalchuk in particular was given gobs of PP time. League GPG in 05-06 was 3.02 compared to 2.98 in 18-19, and Kovalchuk was on the 5th highest scoring team with fellow 90 point players in Savard and Hossa, and played over 8 minutes a game on the PP. He still was 30 points short of Kucherov's top season.

It's actually crazy he never approached 60 goals being used like that in a high scoring season with his skillset.

 

[authentic]

It’s Kucherov

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Kovalchuk was both the leagues best goal scorer and one of the best 2 way wingers in the game, but he was never both at the same time. 52 goal Kovalchuk was not NJ Kovalchuk, they were completely different players. Absolute peak, the answer is Kucherov, who would’ve likely outperformed Kovalchuk on a powerplay with Marc Savard and Marian Hossa as well.

Also Kucherov has scored 40+ twice himself and even finished 2nd in the NHL in the NHL goals while missing 8 games before, and has done this with way less favourable ice time distribution than Kovalchuk. I just don't see logically how someone could believe Kovalchuk is the better player especially with the playoff performances Kucherov has had.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Well is it peak or prime?

Kovalchuk never had anything like Kucherov's Art Ross season, but he did have two 90-point seasons and three 80-point seasons, which easily puts him in Kucherov's company.

 

[Brovalchuk]

Kucherov clearly has the better stats. If I had to choose one though, its Kovy. I cannot and will not provide statistics or reasons other than "I'd prefer him".

And i did not come back to this forum after a 7 year hiatus to vote on this poll. You can't prove it.

 

[Offtheboard412]

It's actually crazy he never approached 60 goals being used like that in a high scoring season with his skillset.

He had some ridiculous hot streaks but always cooled off. The year Ovechkin scored 65 Kovalchuk had like 33 in 37 games but completely fell off in the second half of the year. When he was on he looked like the greatest sniper ever, literally going bar down at will from everywhere in the offensive zone. Problem was when his shot cooled off he didn't score enough greasy goals to carry his numbers when going through those rough patches that inevitably happen throughout an 82 game season.

 

[bobholly39]

People need to address the points above, since y'all saying POINTS = BETTER PLAYER.

This is peak, not career.
Messier doesn't have the second highest ever regular season point total, that's for career. Also - you have to "adjust" points for scoring rates in era. A much as Momma Nichols would like it - her son isn't the 5th best player of all-time despite his 150 point season.

Kovalchuk's highest point total is 98. After that 91.
Kucherov's highest point total is 128. Than, 100. The league scoring was actually higher in Kovalchuk's 98 point season than Kucherov's 128 point season.
Want to do playoffs too? Bigger gap for Kucherov.

Anyway you slice it - this is Kucherov, and it's not that close.

yes but what about your brain?

is it BIG?

HUGE.

Well is it peak or prime?

Kovalchuk never had anything like Kucherov's Art Ross season, but he did have two 90-point seasons and three 80-point seasons, which easily puts him in Kucherov's company.

Thread title clearly says peak, not prime. And those 90 and 80 point seasons don't even compare that well to Kucherov. If you put their 3 best seasons head to head, I think all of Kucherov's are better. Maybe by the 4th one it gets closer. And if you include playoffs for prime - the gap grows.

Kucherov clearly has the better stats. If I had to choose one though, its Kovy. I cannot and will not provide statistics or reasons other than "I'd prefer him".

And i did not come back to this forum after a 7 year hiatus to vote on this poll. You can't prove it.

You can chose whoever you want. If I had a choice between one of my favorites player - and a neutral player whose somewhat better - i'd probably choose to keep my guy too. But question isn't who you'd choose for your team - it's who did better.

To me - it's clearly Kucherov

 

[Voight]

Only making 2 AST is kind of a disappointment for Kovalchuk. He played a weak position and while there was Ovechkin taking all the first AST's, he finished behind the likes of Heatley, Zetterberg, Parise for 2nd.

I went with Kucherov just because his 2016-present run has resulted in 1 Hart, 1 Pearson, a historic Art Ross win, 2x first AST, 2x second AST, point finshes of 1/3/5/7, goal finishes of 2/6/9 and assist finishes of 1/6/8.

On top of this, he had a Smythe Worthy playoff run last year as well.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I feel like people saying the Thrashers supporting cast sucked are the ones with awful memories. They had no depth, no defense, and no goalie. But their top line talent was fantastic. Marian Hossa, Marc Savard, Dany Heatley, and Ilya Kovalchuk were far from terrible.

Hossa played on different lines to Kovalchuk in Atlanta. Heatley started with Kovalchuk on the same line as rookies but also towards the end of Heatley's Atlanta career ended on a separate line as Atlanta tried to establish two different scoring lines.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

People forget that Kovalchuk was a defensive force when he played for the Devils and probably the best two way winger outside of Hossa at the time.

Defensive force is way too strong of word in describing Kovalchuk.

He became a responsibile two way player in NJ after being allowed to freewheel in Atlanta. That's it.

 

[GeNeXt]

Kucherov. Kovalchuk never put up the numbers kucherov is putting and it's not like he didn't have elite players to play with like Heatley, Hossa, Savard, etc.

Sure, Atlanta wasn't a deep or good team, but with one of the best playmakers in the game in Savard, one of the best snipers in the game in Heatley, and one of the best 2 way players in the game in Hossa, he had the means to rack up points, but couldn't do so at kucherovs level.

So it's kucherov for me.

His best season, 98 points, did come with Savard and Hossa on the squad, but come on. Look who Kucherov also plays with.

Kovalchuk put up 91 points in 2008-09 with a 36 year old Vyacheslav Kozlov and 33 year old Todd White.

The man could've flirted with 40 goals as an 18 year old rookie had he played all 82 (29 in 65GP)... this being a few seasons before the 04-05 lockout when the game opened up more for goal scorers.