Better forward group: Tampa, Toronto or Other?

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Is Gourde your new Jake Dotchin?

Jake Drouin...

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Tampa AINEC

 

[Sticksandsun]

Lightning

 

[A1LeafNation]

SiriusXM did their rankings and have TOR > TBL. I think the hockey guy has the Leafs winning the division too. Obvious we know what Vegas thinks.

It will be interesting to see everyone else's predictions.

I know some on HFboards are slow but they will come around I guess.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Speaking of ignoring, not sure how you could ignore the part where he implied anyone who didn't pick the Leafs was anti-Leaf.

Yeah, like there's definitely anti-leaf element to hfboards, but this wasn't a good example at all. People not agreeing with that 3centres take isn't anti-leafs.
Wasn't the hill I'd pick to die on, but volcanologist probably had enough of the denial of the anti-leaf attitude of some vocal posters.

PS appreciate you setting DBF straight on that Marner-Gourde foolishness

 

[loyaltotheend]

SiriusXM did their rankings and have TOR > TBL. I think the hockey guy has the Leafs winning the division too. Obvious we know what Vegas thinks.

It will be interesting to see everyone else's predictions.

I know some on HFboards are slow but they will come around I guess.

Man it is not remotely out of line to put TBL ahead of the Leafs. Overall, they are. Offensively its close, goalie close ish, but their D is substantially better.

Posts like this is why there is anti-leaf brigade to deal with. Give it a rest

 

[A1LeafNation]

Man it is not remotely out of line to put TBL ahead of the Leafs. Overall, they are. Offensively its close, goalie close ish, but their D is substantially better.

Posts like this is why there is anti-leaf brigade to deal with. Give it a rest

The #1 d isn't close...Hedman > Rielly.

In a vacuum the rest is close imo.

 

[loyaltotheend]

The #1 d isn't close...Hedman > Rielly.

In a vacuum the rest is close imo.

It's not, really. And I'm not one of those people who trashes Gardiner.

The two teams are closer than they used to be, but at this point Tampa is ahead.

 

[A1LeafNation]

It's not, really. And I'm not one of those people who trashes Gardiner.

The two teams are closer than they used to be, but at this point Tampa is ahead.

Without getting into pissing matches the Leafs had less GA than Tampa for a reason. They didn't pay the league to forge stats...it actually happened.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Without getting into pissing matches the Leafs had less GA than Tampa for a reason. They didn't pay the league to forge stats...it actually happened.

You realize what those totals were, don't you??
I don't have it in front of me, but I believe they were 4GA ahead after all year?

 

[A1LeafNation]

You realize what those totals were, don't you??
I don't have it in front of me, but I believe they were 4GA ahead after all year?

What does that mean..they were close no?

 

[loyaltotheend]

What does that mean..they were close no?

Countering the hf crap that the Leafs have the worst D in the league by pointing out how the GA rank relative to other "good" teams... fine

You constantly citing it like this where there is a minuscule difference makes everyone who understands math hate the Leafs. Just stop

 

[A1LeafNation]

Countering the hf crap that the Leafs have the worst D in the league by pointing out how the GA rank relative to other "good" teams... fine

You constantly citing it like this where there is a minuscule difference makes everyone who understands math hate the Leafs. Just stop

On the contrary, imo Leafs have an average dcore...say ~15.

What I don't agree with is that ppl think Tampa has some good dcore. With their GA, they do not. Hedman is top 3 in the league, but there is a reason why they gave up so many goals.

 

[loyaltotheend]

On the contrary, imo Leafs have an average dcore...say ~15.

What I don't agree with is that ppl think Tampa has some good dcore. With their GA, they do not. Hedman is top 3 in the league, but there is a reason why they gave up so many goals.

I would also place the Leafs in the middle - maybe 15-20.
I'm not getting further into this, you're missing or avoiding the point.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Countering the hf crap that the Leafs have the worst D in the league by pointing out how the GA rank relative to other "good" teams... fine

You constantly citing it like this where there is a minuscule difference makes everyone who understands math hate the Leafs. Just stop

Another poster brought up a great point - compare the goals against between the starting goalie and the back up goalies. A large gap in Tampa.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Another poster brought up a great point - compare the goals against between the starting goalie and the back up goalies. A large gap in Tampa.

Yeah I'm just trying to get through to him we can't hang our hats on that stat. He cited it frequently in this context

 

[ccman68]

So adding Mcdonagh isn't going to make our defence any better? I guess we can then assume that Tavares isn't going to improve your offense either. 290 goals> 270. And there we have the answer to this poll, lock it up.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Without getting into pissing matches the Leafs had less GA than Tampa for a reason. They didn't pay the league to forge stats...it actually happened.

Leafs were in the bottom part of the league for shots allowed. They also gave a large portion in danger areas.

The Leafs had their back up goalie play very well.

These two reasons combined do not explain that the Leafs have a good defence. Maybe if you looked at other stats instead of cherry picking to boost your beloved team, you’d have a clearer picture.

 

[gamer1035]

Leafs were in the bottom part of the league for shots allowed. They also gave a large portion in danger areas.

The Leafs had their back up goalie play very well.

These two reasons combined do not explain that the Leafs have a good defence. Maybe if you looked at other stats instead of cherry picking to boost your beloved team, you’d have a clearer picture.

Goals against is a cherry picked stat? I can't think of a better stat to judge defense + goaltending of a team.

If you think backup goaltending made the difference then your admitting the teams are very close defensively.

 

[Romang67]

Goals against is a cherry picked stat? I can't think of a better stat to judge defense + goaltending of a team.

If you think backup goaltending made the difference then your admitting the teams are very close defensively.

Or that the backup goaltending wasn't close at all. Which was the case.

Vasilevsky and Andersen had roughly the same sv%. Vasilevsky allowed 15 less goals in one less game played.

McBackup on the other hand rocked a sv% of .934. Had Domingue and Budaj combined for that, Tampa would have allowed 20 goals less last season. Pushing them to 5th least GA in the league.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Jets
Pens
Bolts

Leafs

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Goals against is a cherry picked stat? I can't think of a better stat to judge defense + goaltending of a team.

If you think backup goaltending made the difference then your admitting the teams are very close defensively.

Yes, if you’re using one stat to prop up your arguement. That’s cherry picking a stat.

You also chose to ignore the fact that the Leafs allowed a lot of shots. Why is that?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yes, if you’re using one stat to prop up your arguement. That’s cherry picking a stat.

You also chose to ignore the fact that the Leafs allowed a lot of shots. Why is that?

because it's completely unimportant. Washington had the fewest shots on goal last year, do they have a weak offense?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

because it's completely unimportant. Washington had the fewest shots on goal last year, do they have a weak offense?

I’m not addressing your straw man.

It’s not completely unimportant because you said so.

Shots leads to goals. In what universe can you say the Leafs defence is good when they allow that many shots? There’s two parts that goes into goals allowed: defence and goaltending.

Leafs had two good goaltenders last year. Why is this going unnoticed?

For shots allowed, it’s more clear cut.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I’m not addressing your straw man.

It’s not completely unimportant because you said so.

Shots leads to goals. In what universe can you say the Leafs defence is good when they allow that many shots? There’s two parts that goes into goals allowed: defence and goaltending.

Leafs had two good goaltenders last year. Why is this going unnoticed?

For shots allowed, it’s more clear cut.

if shots lead to goals, why are unwilling to use it as a measure of offense? In what universe can you say Washington's offense is good when they fail to generate shots?

Why is Nashville's defense worse than Detroit's defense? they allowed more shots.