Better forward group: Tampa, Toronto or Other?

Better forward group


  • Total voters
    408
  • Poll closed .

Pyrophorus

Registered User
Jun 1, 2009
26,197
2,905
Eastern GTA
I'm not sure. I guess I would try looking at individual defenseman's stats and comparing them to others. that does have its own flaws though. I think the Leafs coaching and forward support really hurt their defensive metrics though, and it's unfair to pin it all on the defensemen

Why say the Leafs defense is "garbage", if you have nothing to back it up with.
That's my point.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
10,432
But that's two players. McDavid/Draisaitl is better than a lot of team's duos, but I wouldn't consider Edmonton's forwards, as a unit, at the top of the league.

You're surely aware of the rest of their forward roster? Tavares, Nylander, Kadri, Marleau, could be decent potential in Johnsson and especially Kapanen... they won't be lacking in depth or top end talent to anyone.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,519
46,238
You're surely aware of the rest of their forward roster? Tavares, Nylander, Kadri, Marleau, could be decent potential in Johnsson and especially Kapanen... they won't be lacking in depth or top end talent to anyone.

I'm just going off your post, where you listed two of Toronto's forwards being better than two of Tampa's as your rationale for it.

Because if we're going depth, Tampa's not exactly lacking in that department, either, especially since you said "going forward" and seem to now be listing 60 year old Patrick Marleau on the Leafs, as though he's going to be a key guy in 3 or 4 years time when all these Leafs youngsters are in their primes.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
10,432
I'm just going off your post, where you listed two of Toronto's forwards being better than two of Tampa's as your rationale for it.

Because if we're going depth, Tampa's not exactly lacking in that department, either, especially since you said "going forward" and seem to now be listing 60 year old Patrick Marleau on the Leafs, as though he's going to be a key guy in 3 or 4 years time when all these Leafs youngsters are in their primes.

I mean like the next 2 years or so but probably beyond that too. I know Tampa isn't lacking in depth either but the difference will be from their top end talent.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,519
46,238
I mean like the next 2 years or so but probably beyond that too. I know Tampa isn't lacking in depth either but the difference will be from their top end talent.

I'm not seeing the difference. Kucherov's a 100 point guy, Stamkos is over a point per game guy. Even if they improve, Matthews and Marner have a long way to go to be better than those two to the point where there's a noticeable difference at the top end talent.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
10,432
I'm not seeing the difference. Kucherov's a 100 point guy, Stamkos is over a point per game guy. Even if they improve, Matthews and Marner have a long way to go to be better than those two to the point where there's a noticeable difference at the top end talent.

That's okay, it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
10,432
So in your opinion, Marner will surpass what Kucherov currently is? And will Matthews routinely surpass Stamkos' current level? Just so I'm not misunderstanding you.

Matthews will be better than Kucherov (not by a lot mind you), and I'd argue that he's already been a more impactful player than Stamkos since he's been in the league. Marner on the other hand will not quite reach Kucherovs level but will be slightly better than Stamkos or roughly equal. I feel quite confident in these estimates, but we could debate all day here, both teams are extemely close to one another at the forward position only.
 

PatriceBergeronFan

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
59,139
36,522
USA
Matthews will be better than Kucherov (not by a lot mind you), and I'd argue that he's already been a more impactful player than Stamkos since he's been in the league. Marner on the other hand will not quite reach Kucherovs level but will be slightly better than Stamkos or roughly equal. I feel quite confident in these estimates, but we could debate all day here, both teams are extemely close to one another at the forward position only.

Very high praise when seeing what Stamkos/Kucherov are/have been.
 

Artorius Horus T

sincerety
Nov 12, 2014
19,126
11,839
Suomi/Finland
Why so many put Toronto to these considerations?

Marleau: 38, turns 39 September 15th.
- its not like he has played like a top 6 forward in a long time

Matthews: 2 year NHL:er, starts his 3rd year
has avg:ed less than 70 points in his 2 seasons.
- yeah everyone knows how good he is, but he is
still very young and not among one of the best
centers in the league at the moment.

Marner: I think Marner is the best Leafs forward, (its between him and Tavares)
but even he is a 2 year NHL:er, starting his 3rd.
- less than 70 point avg, like Matthews.

Johnsson: Great progress each year, from 2013 on,
but, starting his first full season as a Leaf.
- not sure how he is able to play in the bottom 6

Tavares: Great signing, but he is suppose to be the rainmaker
the difference maker, not sure about that.
- 2nd (or best) forward of the Leafs

---

Nylander: Still uncertain where he plays next season.
- still unsigned, if is a Leaf, will be be playing in the 2nd line,
really good player

---

Hyman: Bottom 6 player in a top 6 player clothes.
- not sure would lots of other coaches consider
him as a top 6 forward, Babcock does thou

Kadri: Too good for the Leafs 3rd line in my mind,
don't expect 30 goal season from the 3rd line this season.
- would fit in many teams top 6

Kapanen: Awesome wheels, has size, has potential,
has all the tools to become a reaaaaally good hockey player,
unfortunately...lowest hockey IQ of all Leafs forwards,
its a bit harsh i know.
- needs tons of chances to pot one in

Brown&Leivo: Both deserves way bigger role what is in the table
in Toronto, i see both as top 6 (2nd line)/top 9 (Leivo) in somewhere else.

Ennis: Very strange acquisition by the Leafs, i see no role for Ennis.

Lindholm,Timashov

---

For me (only my opinion), not particularly awesome forward core,
somewhat strong, but not as much so as advertised.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,556
59,149
"everyone knows how good Matthews is"
"he's the 3rd best forward on the Leafs"

lol, okay. It's pretty obvious why the Leafs have a highly regarded offense. They were top 3 last year and and only got better
 
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SHANNYPLAN

Registered User
Nov 24, 2016
5,209
2,592
LeafsPensJetsLightning
Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kadri
Crosby
Malkin
Kessel
Hornqvist
Brassard
Scheifele
Wheeler
Laine
Ehlers
Connor
Kucherov
Stamkos
Point
Miller
Palat
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Any of these 4
 
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Pyrophorus

Registered User
Jun 1, 2009
26,197
2,905
Eastern GTA
Why so many put Toronto to these considerations?

Marleau: 38, turns 39 September 15th.
- its not like he has played like a top 6 forward in a long time

Matthews: 2 year NHL:er, starts his 3rd year
has avg:ed less than 70 points in his 2 seasons.
- yeah everyone knows how good he is, but he is
still very young and not among one of the best
centers in the league at the moment.

Marner: I think Marner is the best Leafs forward, (its between him and Tavares)
but even he is a 2 year NHL:er, starting his 3rd.
- less than 70 point avg, like Matthews.

Johnsson: Great progress each year, from 2013 on,
but, starting his first full season as a Leaf.
- not sure how he is able to play in the bottom 6

Tavares: Great signing, but he is suppose to be the rainmaker
the difference maker, not sure about that.
- 2nd (or best) forward of the Leafs

---

Nylander: Still uncertain where he plays next season.
- still unsigned, if is a Leaf, will be be playing in the 2nd line,
really good player

---

Hyman: Bottom 6 player in a top 6 player clothes.
- not sure would lots of other coaches consider
him as a top 6 forward, Babcock does thou

Kadri: Too good for the Leafs 3rd line in my mind,
don't expect 30 goal season from the 3rd line this season.
- would fit in many teams top 6

Kapanen: Awesome wheels, has size, has potential,
has all the tools to become a reaaaaally good hockey player,
unfortunately...lowest hockey IQ of all Leafs forwards,
its a bit harsh i know.
- needs tons of chances to pot one in

Brown&Leivo: Both deserves way bigger role what is in the table
in Toronto, i see both as top 6 (2nd line)/top 9 (Leivo) in somewhere else.

Ennis: Very strange acquisition by the Leafs, i see no role for Ennis.

Lindholm,Timashov

---

For me (only my opinion), not particularly awesome forward core,
somewhat strong, but not as much so as advertised.

Imagine finishing #2 in the League in offense, but not considered "particularly awesome"
and "only somewhat strong"

I guess Winnipeg is the same in your eyes, in fact moreso finishing #2 overall.

If you're this oblivious (i.e. blind) to facts, and colors them in a certain way...
....yeah I can smell the hate.
 
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Help

Can I help you?
Apr 8, 2011
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HELP HELP HELP
4239142174_e49f482823.jpg
 

PatriceBergeronFan

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
59,139
36,522
USA
LeafsPensJetsLightning
Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kadri
Crosby
Malkin
Kessel
Hornqvist
Brassard
Scheifele
Wheeler
Laine
Ehlers
Connor
Kucherov
Stamkos
Point
Miller
Palat
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Any of these 4

If only considering the top five, then Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak/Krejci/Debrusk is a contender.
 

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