Besides Bobrovksy, why are there no consistently elite goaltenders anymore

[abo9]

Holtby is pretty elite... and his playoff stats are just amazing

 

[Alexei Yashvalev]

Goaltenders play percentages and don't rely on reaction now (because they can't, shooters and shooter equipment have gotten way too good for that,) generally.

That means most of what it is to be a good goalie in the NHL is reading the play and being in the right spot to have a high percentage chance the puck hits you. That's the most effective method of stopping pucks now but it also means that sometimes you just get unlucky and even though the puck had a high percentage of hitting you it didn't. So it's just not possible to be consistent now the way it used to be.

If you look at how hard and accurate shots are now the goaltender can barely move before the puck is in the net.

 

[Hivemind]

Does Bob choke in the playoffs or is it more of a team thing?

Little bit of column A, little bit of column B. He probably gets an unfair share of the blame, but he's also let in a fair share of softies and has never really outdueled the opposing goalie in a series.

 

[TheDoorDoctor]

Crawford.

 

[Esko6]

No-one is elite because everyone is so good these days that it is hard to stand out. Every goalie in the league can be excellent with a good defence.

 

[TheMule93]

wait, since when is Bobrovsky consistently elite? If anything, he's the poster child for outlier seasons and inconsistency.

his career GAAs are:

2.59
3.02
2.00
2.38
2.68
2.75
2.06
2.42

why are you using GAA? Use sv% to get an actual look at how the goalie is performing

 

[Laineux]

I think the position has evolved so that it's much more difficult to stand out from the pack. The goaltending has undoutedly gotten much better, but there's a lot less personality on it. Effective but boring.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Crawford has been consistently good since he broke into the league its amazing how missing the season has made him completely forgotten on the elite goalie lists where unlike bob he doesnt have an elite defense playing in front of him still while also having a better career GAA and the same career sv%.

 

[Hivemind]

Goaltenders play percentages and don't rely on reaction now (because they can't, shooters and shooter equipment have gotten way too good for that,) generally.

That means most of what it is to be a good goalie in the NHL is reading the play and being in the right spot to have a high percentage chance the puck hits you. That's the most effective method of stopping pucks now but it also means that sometimes you just get unlucky and even though the puck had a high percentage of hitting you it didn't. So it's just not possible to be consistent now the way it used to be.

I agree with everything but the last sentence. You're spot on with this analysis regarding the way goaltending has changed. But instead of making goalie's less consistent, it's made EVERY goalie more consistent. In other words, a .910sv% season used to be a great season for a goalie, now it's basically back-up territory. The bar for an elite goaltender has been raised so much that even the smallest changes in performance thrust a goalie behind several of their peers.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Little bit of column A, little bit of column B. He probably gets an unfair share of the blame, but he's also let in a fair share of softies and has never really outdueled the opposing goalie in a series.

doesnt help his case that his poor performances have followed him across 2 teams now

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

Growing up, you knew the 5 best goalies were Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour and Cujo. The order would change some year to year, but that elite level was well-established. If you ask anyone now who the best goalies are, the correct answer is "It depends on the year". A guy will win the Vezina and then not even be in the conversation the following year. The gap IS shrinking. There was a time, not so long ago, you were catching a break if the opposing team put their backup in. Seldom are you catching a break anymore, no matter which goalie you're facing. There's a lot more parity in NHL goaltending.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I look at goalies like I look at pro fisherman or poker players. I know that's weird but hear me out.

Both those things have so much luck involved, but there are still "elites" because the best ones do everything in their power to have the best odds all the time. If you do everything 100% right in either of those, things can still just not go your way a few times, but overall they will come out on top.

It's like that with goalies, they have to guess always where the puck is going and where it will end up. The best goalies are the ones that play the best odds at all times. Sure, you have to be nimble and or big to get to the right area or be covering already. But for the most part unless its a shot from the point, goalies typically aren't tracking the puck exactly, just tracking where it should be. That's how good goalies make those great glove saves through screens. They see the shooter and lose track of the puck, but from being so good, unless its deflected, they can have a pretty good guess of where it will hit the goal.

The good guessing also comes into play on 2 on 1s and knowing whether a player is a shooter or passer. That's also why you always hear goalies talk about shooters who give them the hardest time are the ones who can get a shot off in the blink of an eye with no wind up. Because there is nothing to go off of, you just have to throw your glove up and hope.

So through all that rambling, I'm saying it doesn't matter how elite a goalie is, at some point they all have a string of bad luck. Sure, some get in there own heads and start playing poorly, or lose a little agility. But I'm talking about the "elite" goalies who have had bad years or half seasons.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

The seasons when Montreal made the playoffs, I would argue Price was as good as any goalie of the last 20 years. You have to be beyond elite to take those rosters to the playoffs.

 

[MAHJ71]

Does Bob choke in the playoffs or is it more of a team thing?

Mix of both in my opinion. He faces an insane amount of shots because of the style Torts has us playing. Gives up goals that feel like they come at the first times, but then makes incredible saves on flip side.

 

[MAHJ71]

When you play a


But the last two years Columbus ended up playing the eventual Stanley Cup winners in the first round. Kind of hard to pad your stats facing that quality of competition.

Sure and as I mentioned in my other reply to someone else, the style Torts has Columbus playing isn't exactly friendly for goaltenders... Bob is facing more shots compared to other goaltenders because of it.

 

[Michael Farkas]

So many judge goaltender capability on save pct. instead of talent. Save pct. is variable based on team tactics/environment (it's a volume stat, not a "talent" stat...look at goalies who face 30+ shots in a game vs. less than. It's correlated directly to shot volume. Every goalie gives up 2...doesn't really matter on how many shots it takes you to do it...because if you give up 1, the discussion is over and if you give up 3, no one's talking about you...). Team tactics/environment shift so much more from year to year (UFA age as low as 25, or 27 depending on YoS...used to be 31...formerly, reserve clauses and the like) and it takes goalie stats with them. And again, people - for whatever their reasoning is - attribute things like GAA and save pct. directly to goalie talent in place of proper talent evaluation within the team environment...so you get the perception of high volatility. Especially when juxtaposed against an era where likely four top 15 goalies (and three top-5 goalies) of all-time played in the same era and few being old enough to recall what life was like before Brodeur ('72), Roy (late '65), Hasek ('65), Belfour ('65) fortified the nets...

 

[Siludin]

Guys Luongo hasn't gone anywhere.

 

[I am toxic]

Growing up, you knew the 5 best goalies were Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour and Cujo. The order would change some year to year, but that elite level was well-established. If you ask anyone now who the best goalies are, the correct answer is "It depends on the year". A guy will win the Vezina and then not even be in the conversation the following year. The gap IS shrinking. There was a time, not so long ago, you were catching a break if the opposing team put their backup in. Seldom are you catching a break anymore, no matter which goalie you're facing. There's a lot more parity in NHL goaltending.

Well said.

Like to post on Hasek's preparation:

.. and Visualization. Solid time spent in a dark room prior to a game. Going over every single minute detail of play, from the very basics of goaltending itself, reminding himself over & over & over again to telegraph the angles, keep his glove up, stick flush on the ice & tilted forward and general rebound control; who he'd like to have shoot on him in the warmup; on through to who he was facing, what their propensities were in terms of lines, defensive pairings, individual play, shooters, style of play & coaching; who his defensive pairings were & their weaknesses, who to scream at early; forward lines, who was out & who was in. On & on including a happy outcome, the Win. The very best, the most elite practice such religiously. If you dont, your game suffers, schizophrenic, disjointed. Control. The hubris & arrogance dropping into the crease knowing that the doors barred. Advanced Remote Viewing. Highbeams on full

 

[StoneHands]

labeling a goalie with 2 Vezinas and a career .891 Sv% in the playoffs as consistent is pretty funny.

 

[Leafslet]

It’s an interesting question. 15-20 years ago there was no such thing as a ‘down year’ as we know it now. If belfour was your goaltender, you had great goaltending going into the season, period. Same goes for brodeur, roy, hasek, turco for ashile, etc, etc, etc.

I think the difference might be the speed of the game. Players move too fast to track plays and pucks like goaltenders used to be able to. That’s my theory, but again, your guess is as good as mine, because I’d say it’s plain as day that even the best goaltenders of today dont have anywhere near the consistency of the past ones.

 

[Crede777]

I look at goalies like running backs in the NFL. Used to be that a star running back could really carry your offense. Now, you can really do a lot with an average one and it is all about the offensive line / QB.

Same with goalies. There are a few elite ones who can make a difference, but the difference in impact between them and an average one playing behind a solid team is fairly small. Not worth the huge cap hit the elite ones will pull in.

 

[Melrose Munch]

This started 3 or 4 years ago. The QMJHL pipeline drying up was a big issue. Don't even remember the last time the goalie was a top 5 player other then Price and that was a couple years ago.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I think a key point is that they weren't just the best three goalies of the last generation but they are also arguably the top three goalies of all-time.

They appear to be the anomaly rather than the trend, but the fact that their careers overlapped means that people expect another crop like them.

One could also argue that they played a fair amount of their careers in the dead-puck obstruction era which helped out their stats.

They also played in the monster equipment era.

It's probably just cyclical.

 

[Connor McConnor]

John Gibson is elite. Holtby can be elite, shows some signs of inconsistency but when he's on he's elite. Vasi has elite skills and is still young. I think that rounds out the top 4 for me in no particular order.

 

[gtrower]

Holtby is as close as we have right now. His playoff stats are among the best of all time and he's been at least as consistent as anybody else in the league since he came in.