Bertuzzi files for Arbitration (UPD: $3.5m)

[jkutswings]

The proposal aside, Bleacher Report is a horrible source.

Literally no different than citing Joe Schmo's HFBoards prospect ranking thread.

Then take your pick:

The Gifted: The remarkable athleticism of Avalanche prospect Alex Newhook

https://thehockeywriters.com/avalanche-prospects-alex-newhook/

The Athletic: Alex Newhook To Return To Boston College Hockey For Sophomore Season

BC Bulletin Awards 2019-20: Alex Newhook Is Freshman of the Year | Sports Illustrated Boston College Eagles News, Analysis and More


The kid definitely has talent, and at a position of major need.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hyperbole aside, so you’re against what Yzerman did? Or are you just playing the contrarian?

Abdelkader PPG: 0.34
Bertuzzi PPG: 0.60
McDavid PPG: 1.34

Each is almost twice as good as the other..

Against? A little bit yes. But it doesn't matter as long as we sign Bert long-term next season. I see zero reasons to risk losing Bert in order to save 0.5-1.0 million though.

1. We don't project to have any 10 million dollar players in the next 5-6 years
2. We will have dozens of cheap ELC and RFA players in the next 5-6 years
3. We have very players in their prime (25-30) and Bertuzzi fits that perfectly
4. Absolute worst case I can see is Bertuzzi in 4-5 years ending up on one of the league's absolute best 3rd lines

Just sign the dude.

 

[Henkka]

1. We don't project to have any 10 million dollar players in the next 5-6 years.

Or maybe we will?

We win one draft lottery in next 2 years and we could have our Auston Matthews in our hands.

Guy comitting 10-15M after his ELC.

2 years + 3 ELC years. It's only 5 years.

Things will happen fast when certain things like "Shane Wright" will happen.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Or maybe we will?

We win one draft lottery in next 2 years and we could have our Auston Matthews in our hands.

Guy comitting 10-15M after his ELC.

2 years + 3 ELC years. It's only 5 years.

Things will happen fast when certain things like "Shane Wright" will happen.

Don't see that player in the 2021 draft. 2022? Too far away to tell, we could even be a much better team by then.

Even so, we need at least 2, probably 3 players commanding that kind of salary for us to even start thinking about salary cap issues.

 

[kliq]

Abdelkader PPG: 0.34
Bertuzzi PPG: 0.60

Each is almost twice as good as the other..

Against? A little bit yes. But it doesn't matter as long as we sign Bert long-term next season. I see zero reasons to risk losing Bert in order to save 0.5-1.0 million though.

1. We don't project to have any 10 million dollar players in the next 5-6 years
2. We will have dozens of cheap ELC and RFA players in the next 5-6 years
3. We have very players in their prime (25-30) and Bertuzzi fits that perfectly
4. Absolute worst case I can see is Bertuzzi in 4-5 years ending up on one of the league's absolute best 3rd lines

Just sign the dude.

Not even going to address anything to do with McDavid moving forward, TBH it just feels like trolling.

It sounds like you are arguing that I am saying Abby and Bertuzzi are equals, I am not. I am saying that the Wings made a mistake with the Abby's contract (and please dont make this a Holland thing, I'm not a person ho blindly bashes Holland) and I dont want them to do it again with Bertuzzi when it actually matter, it can't hurt to see if Bertuzzi can do it one more year and/or to play hardball with him. Year after year, we see players have a good season or two, only to regress. Abby is a perfect example of this. Looking at Abby's career PPG is pointless, he fell off a cliff, but you know that.

Abbys best two season were 2014/2015 & 2015/2016 (age 27/28) and he scored between 0.51 PPG and 0.62 PPG. This is not far off from Bertuzzi if your stats are correct.

Is Bertuzzi better then Abby, yes. I believe so, but I cant criticize Yzerman for being cautious of the cap. Look at the situation Yzerman just left. I'm sure if he could go back in time, he would love to pay some of those middle tier players slightly less money, so he could have kept them. Bertuzzi is kid I want to see in our lineup for years to come, but he is not elite, and players who are not elite and are paid on the higher end of the pay scale tend to be traded down the road in order to preserve cap space. I don't want Bertuzzi to be a cap casualty down the road. You can compare cap management to "preparing for the zombie apocalypse" if you want, but players like Bertuzzi matter to me, and I'd rather see Yzerman play hardball with him now so we can keep him down the road, opposed to Yzerman overpaying him now, and then dumping him in 3 years so we can stay under the cap.

To each their own I guess, if you think caring about that is stupid, you have that right.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not even going to address anything to do with McDavid moving forward, TBH it just feels like trolling.

It sounds like you are arguing that I am saying Abby and Bertuzzi are equals, I am not. I am saying that the Wings made a mistake with the Abby's contract (and please dont make this a Holland thing, I'm not a person ho blindly bashes Holland) and I dont want them to do it again with Bertuzzi when it actually matter, it can't hurt to see if Bertuzzi can do it one more year and/or to play hardball with him. Year after year, we see players have a good season or two, only to regress. Abby is a perfect example of this. Looking at Abby's career PPG is pointless, he fell off a cliff, but you know that.

Abbys best two season were 2014/2015 & 2015/2016 (age 27/28) and he scored between 0.51 PPG and 0.62 PPG. This is not far off from Bertuzzi if your stats are correct.

Is Bertuzzi better then Abby, yes. I believe so, but I cant criticize Yzerman for being cautious of the cap. Look at the situation Yzerman just left. I'm sure if he could go back in time, he would love to pay some of those middle tier players slightly less money, so he could have kept them. Bertuzzi is kid I want to see in our lineup for years to come, but he is not elite, and players who are not elite and are paid on the higher end of the pay scale tend to be traded down the road in order to preserve cap space. I don't want Bertuzzi to be a cap casualty down the road. You can compare cap management to "preparing for the zombie apocalypse" if you want, but players like Bertuzzi matter to me, and I'd rather see Yzerman play hardball with him now so we can keep him down the road, opposed to Yzerman overpaying him now, and then dumping him in 3 years so we can stay under the cap.

To each their own I guess, if you think caring about that is stupid, you have that right.

Abby’s numbers were bad in terms of things like P/60, he was clearly getting carried. Bert has produced in much harder circumstances and in hist first seasons, not even prime.
He is easily twice the player Abdelkader was and playing hardball is just pointless.
Abby does not belong in the same sentence as Bert just like Bert doesn’t belong with McDavid. It’s very rarely a mistake to sign a 25 year old core player long-term. In fact it’s one of the best investments you’ll make.

 

[lilidk]

Don't Avs fans boo Tyler Bertuzzi every time he touches the puck?

It's because his uncle

 

[lilidk]

It's kinda bugs me . I know we had very bad defense but Larkin -21 Bertuzzi -23. Mantha only -7. Helm -6. Fillpula -42. AA was the worse . In only 46 games -45. Everyone hates Nielsen but he was only -13

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

It's kinda bugs me . I know we had very bad defense but Larkin -21 Bertuzzi -23. Mantha only -7. Helm -6. Fillpula -42. AA was the worse . In only 46 games -45. Everyone hates Nielsen but he was only -13

Mantha missed 28 gms, Frans missed 11 or they're likely both much worse +/-. Credit to Helm 68gp, -3, Nemeth 64gp, -10.

 

[lilidk]

Mantha missed 28 gms, Frans missed 11 or they're likely both much worse +/-. Credit to Helm 68gp, -3, Nemeth 64gp, -10.

If Mantha plays 71 games like Larkin his numbers going to be-12, Fran's -15. Larkin -21

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

If Mantha plays 71 games like Larkin his numbers going to be-12, Fran's -15. Larkin -21

Extrapolation only works to some degree. TOI, playing through injury (Larkin), match-ups, combos, strength of schedule etc. etc. Mantha could've easily had way worse than the -15 you suggest, b/c what if Larkin was out for 28gp while Mantha played? (like Larkin played with Mantha hurt).

 

[Gniwder]

It's kinda bugs me . I know we had very bad defense but Larkin -21 Bertuzzi -23. Mantha only -7. Helm -6. Fillpula -42. AA was the worse . In only 46 games -45. Everyone hates Nielsen but he was only -13

How many were empty net? or Howard, which is basically the same thing.

 

[kliq]

Abby’s numbers were bad in terms of things like P/60, he was clearly getting carried. Bert has produced in much harder circumstances and in hist first seasons, not even prime.
He is easily twice the player Abdelkader was and playing hardball is just pointless.
Abby does not belong in the same sentence as Bert just like Bert doesn’t belong with McDavid. It’s very rarely a mistake to sign a 25 year old core player long-term. In fact it’s one of the best investments you’ll make.

Agreed on one thing, Bertuzzi is a better player then Abby. However if you want him to stick around for the long haul, you should want him to sign a team friendly deal. I do.

 

[lilidk]

Extrapolation only works to some degree. TOI, playing through injury (Larkin), match-ups, combos, strength of schedule etc. etc. Mantha could've easily had way worse than the -15 you suggest, b/c what if Larkin was out for 28gp while Mantha played? (like Larkin played with Mantha hurt).

Larkin didn't look 100% healthy and yes someone has to score . Another thing , Blashill was very bad

 

[Winger98]

Agreed on one thing, Bertuzzi is a better player then Abby. However if you want him to stick around for the long haul, you should want him to sign a team friendly deal. I do.

You're more likely to get that team friendly deal the earlier you can get him to commit to something long term. He goes out and hangs another 20 goal/45-50 point season on the stat sheet, and his price is going to do nothing but climb. People can gripe about it being only because he plays X number of minutes or he plays with Mantha or whatever, but guys who consistently put 20 goals on the board are doing something right and they are going to have a market.

 

[Go Wings]

Don't Avs fans boo Tyler Bertuzzi every time he touches the puck?

Lmao good question

 

[kliq]

You're more likely to get that team friendly deal the earlier you can get him to commit to something long term. He goes out and hangs another 20 goal/45-50 point season on the stat sheet, and his price is going to do nothing but climb. People can gripe about it being only because he plays X number of minutes or he plays with Mantha or whatever, but guys who consistently put 20 goals on the board are doing something right and they are going to have a market.

A lot of truth here, there is definitely some risk involved. Who knows what Bertuzzi's camp was asking for if he were to sign long term, maybe it was too much. Maybe Yzerman wanted to wait to show Bertuzzi's camp (and future RFA's) that he wont be pushed around like Nylander pushed around Dubas (not saying this is the same thing, obivously that had much worse ramifications then this would have) but you get my point. Maybe Yzerman just doesnt see Bertuzzi in his future plans. I don't know.

I just hope he's eventually signed to a long term deal at a team friendly cap hit. My main point from the beginning was that Bertuzzi's deal matters a lot because I view him in high regard and I want him to stick around.

 

[Pavels Dog]

A lot of truth here, there is definitely some risk involved. Who knows what Bertuzzi's camp was asking for if he were to sign long term, maybe it was too much. Maybe Yzerman wanted to wait to show Bertuzzi's camp (and future RFA's) that he wont be pushed around like Nylander pushed around Dubas (not saying this is the same thing, obivously that had much worse ramifications then this would have) but you get my point. Maybe Yzerman just doesnt see Bertuzzi in his future plans. I don't know.

I just hope he's eventually signed to a long term deal at a team friendly cap hit. My main point from the beginning was that Bertuzzi's deal matters a lot because I view him in high regard and I want him to stick around.

In 22-23

???? - Larkin - ????
???? - ???? -????
????- Veleno - ????
???? - ???? - ????
????, Nielsen

???? - Seider
???? - ????
Johansson - ?????
McIsaac

????
????

I really wonder what Yzerman is seeing if he's not seeing Bertuzzi in the future plans.

 

[jkutswings]

Are we seeing PTSD from the Holland years of locking every single player up well before their deals came due?

Chill. A one year deal - during a global pandemic - is not an automatic indication that a guy is getting blasted out of town.

Deep breaths, everybody...

 

[r0bert8841]

You're more likely to get that team friendly deal the earlier you can get him to commit to something long term.

You are also more likely to get that team friendly deal if your team is good, or at least your Management/Ownership show a propensity for winning. There is no point in taking a team friendly deal if the Wings are going to be terrible for the entire length of it. Maybe this is on Stevie/Illitch/Blash to actually put together a decent season.

 

[Henkka]

You are also more likely to get that team friendly deal if your team is good, or at least your Management/Ownership show a propensity for winning. There is no point in taking a team friendly deal if the Wings are going to be terrible for the entire length of it. Maybe this is on Stevie/Illitch/Blash to actually put together a decent season.

More I'm seeing what the Yzerplan is.

They did acquire good defensive players. Like even last off-season, Yzerman did brought Nemeth and Filppula in. Nemeth was our best defensive defenceman, and Filppula also does have good defensive reputation. Yzerman drafted Seider, who has been unbelieveably hard to play against, at pro level, more and more we see him.

This summer, they brought in a legit goaltender Greiss, Jon Merril, Troy Stecher, like "neverheards", which both have good defensive stats nobody is looking, like low GAA or low HD Corsi against. Our last-season defencemen net-front play was totally abysmal, worst I've ever seen in NHL with Bowey/Daley/Cholowski/Green -group. Most of these guys are now gone, and Cholowski still learning. Exact opposite guys did came in, and DeKeyser could be healthy too. There's less skill but they protect the net. Even Marc Staal doesn't look bad at HD corsi against vs. his teammates at last season. Also Tomas Greiss was signed, and he comes from the NYI defence, which is structured in a right, low GAA way. Defencemen will help the goaltender and not let him die alone. Everything will cumulate, and I could believe, next season we let double less goals in, and keep on the games longer. Still proably a losing team, but defensively strong, with a new culture.

Also 2020 drafted kids like Raymond seem to be strong defensive type. All new things coming in seems to be defensive, with skill, but defensive. If Raymond and Seider are the new culture changers, they bring in defensive culture. Larkin is already that culture.

Low GAA correlates most with winning. Control the puck, and protect your own net from opposite HD chances.

That's the Yzerplan.

 

[jkutswings]

Low GAA correlates most with winning. Control the puck, and protect your own net from opposite HD chances.

That's the Yzerplan.

We'll, it does seem to be a decent strategy for coping with annual lottery disappointment. And I like the collective moves thus far enough that I look forward to seeing the plan continue to unfold.

Assuming our honorary Europeans continue to get playing time, it'll be great to watch them come over in the spring. And by then I think we'll have a better idea if next summer is the realistic time to make a bigger add in free agency or not. So I guess cautious optimism is where I'm at for now.

 

[Winger98]

A lot of truth here, there is definitely some risk involved. Who knows what Bertuzzi's camp was asking for if he were to sign long term, maybe it was too much. Maybe Yzerman wanted to wait to show Bertuzzi's camp (and future RFA's) that he wont be pushed around like Nylander pushed around Dubas (not saying this is the same thing, obivously that had much worse ramifications then this would have) but you get my point. Maybe Yzerman just doesnt see Bertuzzi in his future plans. I don't know.

I just hope he's eventually signed to a long term deal at a team friendly cap hit. My main point from the beginning was that Bertuzzi's deal matters a lot because I view him in high regard and I want him to stick around.

I like Bert, too, and I'm not sure what there is to know about the guy that you couldn't have learned from the past two years. One thing to remember is that it was bert who filed for arbitration, not the team. Given the asking price for both of them I'm a bit surprised that they couldn't find some middle ground on a longer contract. If it was to save money, I think it was short sighted because I don't think Bert is going to be a radically different player next season than he was this past one. except them you're dealing with a guy with three straight 20 goal seasons under his belt and that much closer to UFA.

I'm with @r0bert8841 with the idea that if we really want team friendly cap hits, we need to be a better team. Also, we're probably going to see NTCs and MNTCs thrown around a bit. I'm fine with just fair deals for guys. The Nylander negotiations were crazy but is Nylander really overpaid? He just hung 30 goals up and 59 points in 68 games. That's pretty darn good production. Maybe Bert wanted something crazy for a 4-5 year deal, but any cap hit under $5m seems pretty fair to me considering the UFA years being eaten such a deal and how lousy this team is likely to be for most of those years.

 

[Shaman464]

Abdelkader PPG: 0.34
Bertuzzi PPG: 0.60
McDavid PPG: 1.34

Each is almost twice as good as the other..

Against? A little bit yes. But it doesn't matter as long as we sign Bert long-term next season. I see zero reasons to risk losing Bert in order to save 0.5-1.0 million though.

1. We don't project to have any 10 million dollar players in the next 5-6 years
2. We will have dozens of cheap ELC and RFA players in the next 5-6 years
3. We have very players in their prime (25-30) and Bertuzzi fits that perfectly
4. Absolute worst case I can see is Bertuzzi in 4-5 years ending up on one of the league's absolute best 3rd lines

Just sign the dude.

Production at the NHL level isn't linear. Its more of a bell curve. So, just because the ppg is double doesn't mean McDavid is just twice as valuable as Bert who is twice as valuable as Abdelkader. By that math you could trade two Abdelkaders and a Bert for a McDavid.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Production at the NHL level isn't linear. Its more of a bell curve. So, just because the ppg is double doesn't mean McDavid is just twice as valuable as Bert who is twice as valuable as Abdelkader. By that math you could trade two Abdelkaders and a Bert for a McDavid.

There's a lot more to a player's value than just point scoring is what you're saying I believe..