Rumor: Berggren about to be traded?

[r0bert8841]

If we trade Berrgren I want some toughness. I haven't watch much of Josh Anderson or Tom Wilson this year but I would overpay for a player like that.

If we go after D I would be interested in someone like Parayko that can play physical.

 

[Snuggs]

I think he has a point about being cautious regarding non-star 2nd line, good two-way center types .. our track record isnt great

I'd prefer a goalie or dman

Who's "we" Yzerman regime or Holland's?

Look, I understand slightly, you guys would really be signing this tune if Yzerman didn't sign Compher and had Copp as the most recent shiner of an example... Best thing about Yzerman is he wasn't scared to try and be better.

If you recognize a guy like Lindholm (or someone else even) as a player that'll vault your team to something more. Then you absolutely have to do it.(Or try to)

Maybe you just want a different route(goalie/dman). I think a D upgrade is within the system so... thats why i'm not so hyped to go shopping that way.

If you think he's average, sure, touché, move on, but I'm telling people right now if you added Lindholm to this roster you upgrade every single special team's unit and lines within those units and overall Face-offs. The top three lines are super deep.

Joe Veleno – Dylan Larkin – Lucas Raymond
Alex DeBrincat – J.T. Compher - Patrick Kane
Robby Fabbri – Elias Lindholm – David Perron

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Well F you then buddy. Lol. Who cares if you're annoyed?

Sitting here acting like you know for sure a player will be unproductive is hilarious. You dont know that, Let alone comparing Lindholm to past signings like Nielson/Green/Daley/Abdelkader, etc. IT's not comparable. It's just a correlation without any interpretations of how good the players are.

I'm not even sure you watch Lindholm if you don't' understand his value. (He's the better version of Compher)

I'd go after a better forward/center but idk who that guy is that's available right now.

Not my fault you have trauma over the past and can't sit and look at a good player. Don't know for sure but you were prolly the same guy that whined when Compher was signed, etc. Or... even Kane.

You don’t need to act up.

Ok, then tell me right know what you claim to see in his game that ensures us that Lindholm will be the same player in 5 years. What do you see?

You can’t ensure it. Then you’re gambling. And it’s a risky one with a lot of term and money. You’ll have to give him 6yrs minimum, prob 7, and 7,5mil+
We can bet everything on an unlikely outcome at the end of the night. You can’t, look into the future, I can’t. But I am siding with logic and precedents. Stop acting dumber than you are talking about correlation. If you had any idea about sports than you’d know that a dip in performance is very much a result of age. Cause and effect, not correlation. Players DECLINE with age. There’s prob no or hardly any skater that was more productive in his 30s than in his 20s. Sure we can hope that Lindholm is one of the few who can improve or hold serve. But Hope is dangerous.

Dekeyser was a lovely skater. And what happened? He got hurt and was a vegetable from then on. The likelihood of injury and the time it takes to get back increases with age. Another strike. Similar story with Green and and and.

All the while we have just drafted a young good center to take the the spot you wanna clog up for the next half dozen yrs. You have him in the 3-hole? Pretty f***in expensive for that.

Stop fabricating and attributing arguments. I know that he’s good and watched him enough. Roughly the same production as Compher so far, on pace for roughly 50pts. And you wanna pay him multiple millions more…? I’d be with you if we were talking about a perennial ppg player. But the way down for Lindholm isn’t that far, cause he’s not a premier player.

I don’t have a trauma. I just don’t repeat mistakes or open myself up for a high likelihood of them. Serves me well in life

I say your way of thinking made sure that we were wandering in the hockey wilderness for way longer than it was necessary.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Who's "we" Yzerman regime or Holland's?

Look, I understand slightly, you guys would really be signing this tune if Yzerman didn't sign Compher and had Copp as the most recent shiner of an example... Best thing about Yzerman is he wasn't scared to try and be better.

If you recognize a guy like Lindholm (or someone else even) as a player that'll vault your team to something more. Then you absolutely have to do it.(Or try to)

Maybe you just want a different route(goalie/dman). I think a D upgrade is within the system so... thats why i'm not so hyped to go shopping that way.

If you think he's average, sure, touché, move on, but I'm telling people right now if you added Lindholm to this roster you upgrade every single special team's unit and lines within those units and overall Face-offs. The top three lines are super deep.

Joe Veleno – Dylan Larkin – Lucas Raymond
Alex DeBrincat – J.T. Compher - Patrick Kane
Robby Fabbri – Elias Lindholm – David Perron

Am I on Crazy pills?!?! Dude, NO f***IN BODY is disagreeing with you regarding the player himself!!! We all know he’s good. It’s the commitment you’d have to make in order to get him which would massively decrease our flexibility.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What the f***.

He is super soft and doesn't want to compete without the puck and isn't skilled and/or big enough to be soft and have no pulse. He is nowhere close to being the top six forward people claim him to be at the NHL level. He is totally AAAA in my eyes.

Now, I will say the quiet part out loud: people think he is good because: (a) he is Swedish, and (b) an undersized forward (i.e. the two most coveted prospect traits on this board).

 

[Frk It]

I have not thought he was soft from seeing him play previously, but maybe I wasn't watching closely enough? TBH I thought that was just a narrative getting thrown around on here by a select few.

I could kind of see the argument that he will continue to be the odd man out because he is not good enough offensively for the top 6 and doesn't have enough utility for the bottom 6. But I don't know that I thought he was exceptionally soft or not willing to compete prior to this season.

 

[norrisnick]

I have not thought he was soft from seeing him play previously, but maybe I wasn't watching closely enough? TBH I thought that was just a narrative getting thrown around on here by a select few.

I could kind of see the argument that he will continue to be the odd man out because he is not good enough offensively for the top 6 and doesn't have enough utility for the bottom 6. But I don't know that I thought he was exceptionally soft or not willing to compete prior to this season.

There is a certain subset that dislike any player softer than Probert and born further away than Sudbury.

Berggren is more than good enough to play in the top 6. Just need to stick him there and he will help a line produce. It's when he's playing with Fischers and Kostins that your mileage may vary...

 

[sepster]

I like Berggren, he's got a good attitude, has some skill, seems to hustle. If he were to be traded for a pick, I would be disappointed. If he's part of a package to bring in a core player, I would be A-OK with such a trade.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Berggren + Copp + Maatta + Husso + 1st 2024 + 3rd 2026

For

Markstrom + Lindholm

I’d be happy with Berggren for Xhekaj after Ottawa. Getting tired of that shit team gooning it up against Detroit.

Interesting you say this and I don't know the timing or not, but apparently there is smoke with the red wings and montreal in trade talks. I was hoping it wasn't going to be an Allen or something similar trade but I completely forgot about xhekaj. He is exactly what I want for the enforcer on the back end. I don't know how well he is when it comes to his actual gameplay but I know he is someone who will be in the mix on everything.

Great find man. Hate that I didn't see that when I heard about montreal talking to detroit.

I think he has a point about being cautious regarding non-star 2nd line, good two-way center types .. our track record isnt great

I'd prefer a goalie or dman

at the same time, lindholm has put up a lot of points when he has competent wingers and isn't he really good at faceoffs too?

I really wouldn't mind having another compher down the middle.......of course I would not want a 7 year deal, would rather have 4-5 if anything and I think that is exactly what yzerman would do given his recent future.

 

[Ricelund]

Berggren's absolutely the type of guy you throw into a deal if you can make a substantial long-term upgrade.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I have not thought he was soft from seeing him play previously, but maybe I wasn't watching closely enough? TBH I thought that was just a narrative getting thrown around on here by a select few.

I could kind of see the argument that he will continue to be the odd man out because he is not good enough offensively for the top 6 and doesn't have enough utility for the bottom 6. But I don't know that I thought he was exceptionally soft or not willing to compete prior to this season.

There is a certain subset that dislike any player softer than Probert and born further away than Sudbury.

Berggren is more than good enough to play in the top 6. Just need to stick him there and he will help a line produce. It's when he's playing with Fischers and Kostins that your mileage may vary...

agree with both and will add.

Berggren playing in any bottom 6 role is just useless for his skillset. If we didn't sign copp or traded him this year, berggren would probably have made the team with being in the top 6, probably switching on and off with rasmussen. The issue is he just doesn't get enough traction time (this year) in order to dig his feet in, but at the same time, yzerman and lalonde have said they see us in the playoffs this year, so taking in a 2 week period for berggren to see if he can make it or not is unfortunately unrealistic.

I do think he is kind of a softer player, but I say that because he doesn't scrum it up in the corners or in front of the net. If we had a player on the second line that would be a semi-enforcer type guy, we probably wouldn't notice berggren's soft nature tbh.

He needs to be traded to a rebuilding team that has top 6 openings for him to play on. This isn't a zadina situation where he "could" be good. Berggren is good once given a real opportunity. But with us signing kane/dbc/raymond, he has to outbeat everyone on the roster for that final winger spot and he really hasn't done it, albeit with limited opportunity. If we played a 3 line scoring system that all top 9 got extremely similar minutes, then putting him in the top 9 would probably work, but we don't really play that.

I'll say it again as I've said before, I really wanted him to be our datsyuk-lite (with his passing ability) or nicklas backstrom but he just doesn't have the opportunity to try to become it on a team that is trying to push for playoff spot.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He is super soft and doesn't want to compete without the puck and isn't skilled and/or big enough to be soft and have no pulse. He is nowhere close to being the top six forward people claim him to be at the NHL level. He is totally AAAA in my eyes.

Now, I will say the quiet part out loud: people think he is good because: (a) he is Swedish, and (b) an undersized forward (i.e. the two most coveted prospect traits on this board).

He also produces a lot, even at the NHL level (given his role/icetime, 15 goals was fantastic).

But nah, just the swedish thing. Definitely.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I have not thought he was soft from seeing him play previously, but maybe I wasn't watching closely enough? TBH I thought that was just a narrative getting thrown around on here by a select few.

I could kind of see the argument that he will continue to be the odd man out because he is not good enough offensively for the top 6 and doesn't have enough utility for the bottom 6. But I don't know that I thought he was exceptionally soft or not willing to compete prior to this season.

His call up this season was a real eye opener for me. I could be reading too much into his four NHL games this year, but I thought he did not look physically engaged in the play at all and very ineffective.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Interesting you say this and I don't know the timing or not, but apparently there is smoke with the red wings and montreal in trade talks. I was hoping it wasn't going to be an Allen or something similar trade but I completely forgot about xhekaj. He is exactly what I want for the enforcer on the back end. I don't know how well he is when it comes to his actual gameplay but I know he is someone who will be in the mix on everything.

Great find man. Hate that I didn't see that when I heard about montreal talking to detroit.


at the same time, lindholm has put up a lot of points when he has competent wingers and isn't he really good at faceoffs too?

I really wouldn't mind having another compher down the middle.......of course I would not want a 7 year deal, would rather have 4-5 if anything and I think that is exactly what yzerman would do given his recent future.

Xhekaj can actually play. He's probably not going to ever be more than a #5 defenseman who could take an odd shift as a 4th line winger but he's not a liability out there. This team could do a lot worse than him as a utility wing/D.

If Detroit runs 11/7 when healthy this isn't bad.

Fabbri - Larkin - Raymond
DeBrincat - Compher - Kane
Perron - Veleno - Sprong
empty - Rasmussen/Copp - Fischer/Kostin

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Ghost
Chiarot - Holl
Xhekaj

I really want to get away from Copp because I just don't see the point in keeping him moving forward. For what little he brings to the roster I'd rather play Danielson or Kasper next year, and can think of maybe 3 games where he was better than Veleno.

 

[19 for president]

While I like Berggren and I do think he is an NHLer, I do think its going to be increasingly difficult to find him a scoring line/pp spot and he will need those to have a successful career,

Right now we have Larkin, DBC, Compher, and Raymond as top 6 locks for next season. Fabbri and Copp are probably top 9 locks at least for next season. So you have 3 spots in your top 9 that established guys like Ras (RFA), Veleno (RFA), Kane (UFA), Sprong (UFA) and young guys like Mazur, Lombardi, Danielson, and Kasper are fighting over.

I just don't see Berggren winning that numbers game. He is too soft of the puck along the boards and our established guys are already on the smaller side. That I think gives Joey V and Ras the advantage there.

So Berggy being used to upgrade D, goalie, or even forward is not a bad idea. He is likely to never really get a fair shake here long term.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He is super soft and doesn't want to compete without the puck and isn't skilled and/or big enough to be soft and have no pulse. He is nowhere close to being the top six forward people claim him to be at the NHL level. He is totally AAAA in my eyes.

Now, I will say the quiet part out loud: people think he is good because: (a) he is Swedish, and (b) an undersized forward (i.e. the two most coveted prospect traits on this board).

Him being swedish or undersized has nothing to do with why people think he's good. Last year as a rookie, his rookie AHL season, and the previous season he had in Sweden showed a player with great wheels, great hands, and a knack for creative playmaking.

The problem is this; somewhere along the way his attitude changed and he stopped competing as hard on the ice. His first 45 or so games Berggren looked like a gamer in his rookie year. His last 20 or so and he looked like a floater. I'm not talking the lack of physical engagement and how low his hitz are like Gniwder does. I'm talking about the lack of hustle, the lack of willingness to go to an area where he might get hit to make a play.

I have not thought he was soft from seeing him play previously, but maybe I wasn't watching closely enough? TBH I thought that was just a narrative getting thrown around on here by a select few.

I could kind of see the argument that he will continue to be the odd man out because he is not good enough offensively for the top 6 and doesn't have enough utility for the bottom 6. But I don't know that I thought he was exceptionally soft or not willing to compete prior to this season.

I was tire pumper in chief for Berggren from 2021 to about the end of last season and will say that this year he has been lazy. The guy has not been using his wheels, and that's a defining trait to his game. Take away Kris Draper's speed and then what would he have been?

I really think that attitude/drive is what is keeping him down right now. Berggren probably thought that because he had a decent rookie year that he'd be a lock for this year and he's been playing kind of mopey since.

 

[Frk It]

His call up this season was a real eye opener for me. I could be reading too much into his four NHL games this year, but I thought he did not look physically engaged in the play at all and very ineffective.

I just am thinking is he more or less soft than Nyquist was? Is prime Nyquist someone you would or wouldn’t want in your top 9?

I’ve always seen him as someone with a pretty similar game, for the most part.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Xhekaj can actually play. He's probably not going to ever be more than a #5 defenseman who could take an odd shift as a 4th line winger but he's not a liability out there. This team could do a lot worse than him as a utility wing/D.

If Detroit runs 11/7 when healthy this isn't bad.

Fabbri - Larkin - Raymond
DeBrincat - Compher - Kane
Perron - Veleno - Sprong
empty - Rasmussen/Copp - Fischer/Kostin

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Ghost
Chiarot - Holl
Xhekaj

I really want to get away from Copp because I just don't see the point in keeping him moving forward. For what little he brings to the roster I'd rather play Danielson or Kasper next year, and can think of maybe 3 games where he was better than Veleno.

so we could have xhakaj as our #7 instead of maatta/petry is what your saying. I don't need him to be more than a #5/6 D, as long as he is just stable i'd be good. I wonder if chiarot - xhekaj pairing would work? Could be really tough to play against if they both stay competent and would probably be a good PK pairing to hurt the top line guys of other teams. Or at least make them really earn the front of the net.

 

[jaster]

He's absolutely soft, anyone debating that is living in fantasyland. But soft players succeed in the NHL all the time, it's not a trait that disqualifies you from being a successful player. @OgeeOgelthorpe is right, the thing that is currently disqualifying him from a real NHL role is his embarrassing lack of compete. He's a giveaway machine without even touching the puck because he gives up on battles that he should otherwise have at least a 50/50 chance of winning due to his speed. He tilts the ice in the wrong direction this season.

He's been compared to Nyquist a lot on this forum in the past, but Nyquist, who's also a soft player, had very good compete (same with Tatar). And that's basically a requirement when you're smaller and softer than average. If Berggren can't up that part of his game, he's useless to Detroit and they should absolutely package him up for an upgrade somewhere else on the roster while he still has perceived value.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I just am thinking is he more or less soft than Nyquist was? Is prime Nyquist someone you would or wouldn’t want in your top 9?

I’ve always seen him as someone with a pretty similar game, for the most part.

I don't think Nyquist was soft. He wasn't physical but he wasn't soft. If anything I think he had a really great work rate which helped get him to the NHL. If he didn't work as hard as he did without the puck he never would have made it to the NHL. He was also willing to play in dirty areas. I had a lot of time for Nyquist as a player even though he was not as good as we needed him to be.

The absolute best players in the game have the puck on their stick about one minute each game. The vast, vast, vast majority of any player's play is without the puck.

Berggren is free to prove me wrong at any time. I like my crow with peri peri sauce for what it is worth.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I just am thinking is he more or less soft than Nyquist was? Is prime Nyquist someone you would or wouldn’t want in your top 9?

I’ve always seen him as someone with a pretty similar game, for the most part.

I take prime Nyquist in the top 9 all day.

 

[jaster]

I don't think Nyquist was soft. He wasn't physical but he wasn't soft. If anything I think he had a really great work rate which helped get him to the NHL. If he didn't work as hard as he did without the puck he never would have made it to the NHL. He was also willing to play in dirty areas. I had a lot of time for Nyquist as a player even though he was not as good as we needed him to be.

The absolute best players in the game have the puck on their stick about one minute each game. The vast, vast, vast majority of any player's play is without the puck.

Berggren is free to prove me wrong at any time. I like my crow with peri peri sauce for what it is worth.

"Soft" is one of those hockey terms that has different meanings depending on who's using it. Some people roll "compete" into the definiton, and in that case I agree, Nyquist was not soft. I think your description of him is accurate. But I'd still call him soft simply because he was undersized, not especially strong, and did have to pick his battles a bit. But his high compete and puck pursuit when he didn't have it more than mitigated any softness he had. I was a big Nyzuist fan too.

 

[jkutswings]

I was a big Nyzuist fan too.

But did you like Nyquist more or less than Nyzuist?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

He's absolutely soft, anyone debating that is living in fantasyland. But soft players succeed in the NHL all the time, it's not a trait that disqualifies you from being a successful player. @OgeeOgelthorpe is right, the thing that is currently disqualifying him from a real NHL role is his embarrassing lack of compete. He's a giveaway machine without even touching the puck because he gives up on battles that he should otherwise have at least a 50/50 chance of winning due to his speed. He tilts the ice in the wrong direction this season.

He's been compared to Nyquist a lot on this forum in the past, but Nyquist, who's also a soft player, had very good compete (same with Tatar). And that's basically a requirement when you're smaller and softer than average. If Berggren can't up that part of his game, he's useless to Detroit and they should absolutely package him up for an upgrade somewhere else on the roster while he still has perceived value.

This is truth and absolutely should be considered in watching draft-eligible players. If you are small and you don't compete, you need to have ungodly offensive skill and hockey IQ to make the NHL. I am talking about top of the first round skill, not more skill than everyone else available on the board skill.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

@OgeeOgelthorpe is right

It's about damn time you admitted this. I'm saving that post.