Bergevin takes Autumn by Storm (Part 8)

[BLONG7]

Looking at MBs trade history, I can’t seem to find one clear cut overpayment.

True, MB has made some decent trades, it is everything else he has no clue as to what he is doing..........proof is in the pudding. Almost ZERO results the last 4-5 seasons...with the team HE built.

He did overpay for Drouin.......Stevie Y fleeced him on that one.

 

[Deluded Puck]

Looking at MBs trade history, I can’t seem to find one clear cut overpayment.

Nobody gets forced to overpay at the thrift shop.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Nobody gets forced to overpay at the thrift shop.

Best reply of 2019 candidate

 

[habsfan891]

One thing Houle did that was great? Even the worst GM can do somesthing fine....Souray and 2nd rounder for Malakhov. Hackett and Weinrick for Thibault, Manson. Also, a Houle, who wasn't a GM, had to deal with the Patrick Roy awful situation. But yes, he screwed up there. Screwed up in the Damphousse trade. And in the Turgeon trade. Amongst a few other things. Yet again....Corey is the game responsible for this whole mess. Houle answered the call. He should not have done it. But he did to the best of his abilities which were limited. History has no idea how the Habs would have been with Roy in net and the same core with Damphousse and Co.

Problem with Bergevin is that by how he conducts himself, he thinks his abilities are twice his biceps......

I'd love to know what Bergevin could do if Price openly ask for a trade...

Slander his character and trade him at low value

 

[salbutera]

Nobody gets forced to overpay at the thrift shop.

David Poile would disagree...1st rounder for 4C Paul Gaustad

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

David Poile would disagree...1st rounder for 4C Paul Gaustad

You're right, Poile isn't a savvy thrift shopper like your idol, that's for sure.

 

[Rapala]

Looking at MBs trade history, I can’t seem to find one clear cut overpayment.

False did you see what he paid the trash.

 

[salbutera]

You're right, Poile isn't a savvy thrift shopper like your idol, that's for sure.

MB is not my idol, only acknowledging his trades have been his saving grace, amateur scouting & development has been putrid during his tenure.

There seems to be this hatred of MB which clouds objective analysis of his job as GM of Habs. Most likely driven by trading of fan favorite Subban.

 

[angusyoung]

False did you see what he paid the trash.

More or less the going rate and got a few deals in the underpayment also.

 

[The Real Timo]

You're right, Poile isn't a savvy thrift shopper like your idol, that's for sure.

And he doesn't own purple suits.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

MB is not my idol, only acknowledging his trades have been his saving grace, amateur scouting & development has been putrid during his tenure.

There seems to be this hatred of MB which clouds objective analysis of his job as GM of Habs. Most likely driven by trading of fan favorite Subban.

Nah, it's the complete lack of direction, vision and of a modicum of foresight. The complete lack of results in the period of his mandate where the team would reflect his work the most. Savings grace? You gotta be kidding me. The only savings grace is that his incompetence has allowed us to draft higher.

Also, I wanted Bergevin gone after his "it's on me" PC, as do many of his detractors, which shows how deluded you are.

You can keep pretending it's solely about Subban, it just shows your inability to recognize certain obvious facts (which you probably just forgot on the road to objectivity):

Such as Bergevin equating Houle's record setting 41 regulation losses in a
season.

Such as Bergevin equating Houle's mediocrity record setting of 1 playoff series win in 5 years.

Such as Bergevin damaging our ability to attract free agents by using ill-advised negociation tactics and overall arrogance.

Such as Bergevin holding on to incompetent cronies for far too long.

Such as Bergevin focusing too much wealth and importance on secondary measures.

Such as Bergevin's inability to plan for the future. Our defense's left side is a testament to that. Not only did he not take care of refurbishing it with Markov nearing his expiration date, he went further by trading away the only prime asset that would've been a step in the right direction.

Should I go on?

Pass this post around at the PR office if your colleagues need to take notes.

Objective analysis. Yeeeeeaaaah....

 

[salbutera]

Nah, it's the complete lack of direction, vision and of a modicum of foresight. The complete lack of results in the period of his mandate where the team would reflect his work the most. Savings grace? You gotta be kidding me. The only savings grace is that his incompetence has allowed us to draft higher.

Also, I wanted Bergevin gone after his "it's on me" PC, as do many of his detractors, which shows how deluded you are.

You can keep pretending it's solely about Subban, it just shows your inability to recognize certain obvious facts (which you probably just forgot on the road to objectivy):

Such as Bergevin equating Houle's record setting 41 regulation losses in a
season.

Such as Bergevin equating Houle's mediocrity record setting of 1 playoff series win in 5 years.

Such as Bergevin damaging our ability to attract free agents by using ill-advised negociation tactics and overall arrogance.

Such as Bergevin holding on to incompetent cronies for far too long.

Such as Bergevin focusing too much wealth and importance on secondary measures.

Such as Bergevin's inability to plan for the future. Our defense's left side is a testament to that. Not only did he not take care of refurbishing it with Markov nearing his expiration date, he went further by trading away the only prime asset that would've been a step in the right direction.

Should I go on?

Pass this post around at the PR office if your colleagues need to take notes.

Objective analysis. Yeeeeeaaaah....

I do agree with many of your assessments of MB, however, he did not damage ability to attract UFAs...the geographic location of the city has done that damage. Even with the subpar GM that MB is, move the team to a southern no tax state like Houston and he’ll attract elite talent like Vegas starting year 1.

Since players attained some power in terms of dictating where they wished to play post-94 lockout, Habs have been unable to attract any name players via UFA or trade spanning several GMs - Hull, Briere, Hossa, Lecavalier etc. all said no, many others refused to waive their clauses for trades.

By overpaying market demands Habs were able to sign the secondary players like McKay, Hamrlik, Cammalieri, Gionta. Or as Uncle Lou told Gionta “run and sign that MTL offer no one else will give it to you”.

 

[DarkSender]

I think its not a Bergevin vs Houle vs whatever GM we had. Montreal will never compete with other cities and teams only if they go out of the box. But they don't. They stick to NHL's "book of standards".

Lets take a look at PK's trade for example. I'm not saying that the trade was bad.. it was a good trade in my opinion and that's what we needed at that time.. but we should have and aim for players like PK more often than Weber and let me explain why. Keyword ? EXPOSURE.

Ronaldo for example makes about 80M$ CAD in salary and 70M$ CAD in endorsements. I know its not the same market. But Montreal have the potential to give their players HIGH endorsements compared to other cities and guess what ?? Endorsements are not included in salary cap. That's Montreal's unused advantage. If we have time to complain about how we have high taxes and shit.. let's actually enjoy what we can do with the fan base we already have and we can expand on that.

I hope that one day, a player signs in Montreal knowing that he might get higher incomes from his ads and brand, than his actual salary.

 

[Deluded Puck]

MB is not my idol, only acknowledging his trades have been his saving grace, amateur scouting & development has been putrid during his tenure.

There seems to be this hatred of MB which clouds objective analysis of his job as GM of Habs. Most likely driven by trading of fan favorite Subban.

Telling that into the fourth season since that trade it’s people of your mindset who can’t stop bringing up 76.

Personally if there was the treatment of a single player I get irritated at during that period it’s actually Lars Eller.

Bergevin is genuinely garbage - as a poster succinctly put it we are into year 8 and his regime has failed to draft and develop a top 6 forward , a top 4 defenceman, and not even a back up goalie.

He should be doing a walk of shame down peel street as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Deluded Puck]

I do agree with many of your assessments of MB, however, he did not damage ability to attract UFAs...the geographic location of the city has done that damage. Even with the subpar GM that MB is, move the team to a southern no tax state like Houston and he’ll attract elite talent like Vegas starting year 1.

Since players attained some power in terms of dictating where they wished to play post-94 lockout, Habs have been unable to attract any name players via UFA or trade spanning several GMs - Hull, Briere, Hossa, Lecavalier etc. all said no, many others refused to waive their clauses for trades.

By overpaying market demands Habs were able to sign the secondary players like McKay, Hamrlik, Cammalieri, Gionta. Or as Uncle Lou told Gionta “run and sign that MTL offer no one else will give it to you”.

Stop it the lowering of the bar and excuse making.

The city is just fine, Plenty to offer, you have to have a mindset that allows you to embrace the intensity of Montreal.

However what holds the Habs back is an old school approach and the terrible language restriction for management. An organisation that can only talk about the past instead of planning for the future.

 

[Andrei79]

I think its not a Bergevin vs Houle vs whatever GM we had. Montreal will never compete with other cities and teams only if they go out of the box. But they don't. They stick to NHL's "book of standards".

Lets take a look at PK's trade for example. I'm not saying that the trade was bad.. it was a good trade in my opinion and that's what we needed at that time.. but we should have and aim for players like PK more often than Weber and let me explain why. Keyword ? EXPOSURE.

Ronaldo for example makes about 80M$ CAD in salary and 70M$ CAD in endorsements. I know its not the same market. But Montreal have the potential to give their players HIGH endorsements compared to other cities and guess what ?? Endorsements are not included in salary cap. That's Montreal's unused advantage. If we have time to complain about how we have high taxes and ****.. let's actually enjoy what we can do with the fan base we already have and we can expand on that.

I hope that one day, a player signs in Montreal knowing that he might get higher incomes from his ads and brand, than his actual salary.

Good point. Endorsements represent between 500k to 2M for a star player playing here. It definitely is and should be an advantage. Subban was netting something like 1.5M, which was far away the most for a defenseman. Price is low key and nets over 500K.

 

[Deluded Puck]

@Andrei79 was it you who originally posted about The putrid development record under MB? Apologies for not remembering!

 

[Runner77]

Good point. Endorsements represent between 500k to 2M for a star player playing here. It definitely is and should be an advantage. Subban was netting something like 1.5M, which was far away the most for a defenseman. Price is low key and nets over 500K.

Just curious where you found that vs. what is going on in other markets. I would have thought a player in Toronto might make more than in Montreal and that would include defensemen.

 

[Andrei79]

Just curious where you found that vs. what is going on in other markets. I would have thought a player in Toronto might make more than in Montreal and that would include defensemen.

Forbes and just scouring the net for comparisons. I know they anticipated that Tavares would net some significant endorsments when he signed in Toronto. Couldnt find anything on Rielly.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm for sure going to be in the minority, but I would like to see what Bergevin does with a real president in charge. There are many moves that just don't make sense and you have to wonder if it's Molson telling him what to do. The Subban situation for instance. So it was obviously reported that we were likely trading Subban to the Oilers or Canucks. The packages in return included YOUNG elite assets and picks. When that didn't happen because Columbu took Dubois, it takes a couple hours for Bergevin to do a complete 180 and instead of going for youth, he goes for someone older.

Of course I could be dead wrong here and Bergevin really is that bad when it comes to vision, but moves like this make me believe that Molson may have a bigger influence than we think.

 

[Deluded Puck]

I'm for sure going to be in the minority, but I would like to see what Bergevin does with a real president in charge. There are many moves that just don't make sense and you have to wonder if it's Molson telling him what to do. The Subban situation for instance. So it was obviously reported that we were likely trading Subban to the Oilers or Canucks. The packages in return included YOUNG elite assets and picks. When that didn't happen because Columbu took Dubois, it takes a couple hours for Bergevin to do a complete 180 and instead of going for youth, he goes for someone older.

Of course I could be dead wrong here and Bergevin really is that bad when it comes to vision, but moves like this make me believe that Molson may have a bigger influence than we think.

He’s that bad. Molson needs to just become an owner, and we need a new president and GM. Molson’s influence would only be felt if he told MB to cut costs ala Melnyk. Oh and that stupidly long contract he gave MB.

 

[The Great Weal]

He’s that bad. Molson needs to just become an owner, and we need a new president and GM. Molson’s influence would only be felt if he told MB to cut costs ala Melnyk. Oh and that stupidly long contract he gave MB.

I don't think any of us know the real answer. At the end of the day, it's all on Geoff Molson.

 

[ECWHSWI]

You're right, Poile isn't a savvy thrift shopper like your idol, that's for sure.

not a chance Poile gets his team to the SCF or build up a contender, only a savyy GM like the amazing Bergevin can do that!

 

[ECWHSWI]

I do agree with many of your assessments of MB, however, he did not damage ability to attract UFAs...the geographic location of the city has done that damage. Even with the subpar GM that MB is, move the team to a southern no tax state like Houston and he’ll attract elite talent like Vegas starting year 1.

Since players attained some power in terms of dictating where they wished to play post-94 lockout, Habs have been unable to attract any name players via UFA or trade spanning several GMs - Hull, Briere, Hossa, Lecavalier etc. all said no, many others refused to waive their clauses for trades.

By overpaying market demands Habs were able to sign the secondary players like McKay, Hamrlik, Cammalieri, Gionta. Or as Uncle Lou told Gionta “run and sign that MTL offer no one else will give it to you”.

You wish the beloved Bergevin could sign scrubs like these...

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You wish the beloved Bergevin could sign scrubs like these...

I wanted to post a lenghty reply but you just saved me from doing the whole thing in so very few words. Thanks