Bergevin takes Autumn by Storm (Part 8)

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I do agree with many of your assessments of MB, however, he did not damage ability to attract UFAs...the geographic location of the city has done that damage. Even with the subpar GM that MB is, move the team to a southern no tax state like Houston and he’ll attract elite talent like Vegas starting year 1.

Since players attained some power in terms of dictating where they wished to play post-94 lockout, Habs have been unable to attract any name players via UFA or trade spanning several GMs - Hull, Briere, Hossa, Lecavalier etc. all said no, many others refused to waive their clauses for trades.

By overpaying market demands Habs were able to sign the secondary players like McKay, Hamrlik, Cammalieri, Gionta. Or as Uncle Lou told Gionta “run and sign that MTL offer no one else will give it to you”.

Just out of curiosity, do you believe Matt Duchene is a secondary asset?

 

[jaffy27]

And he doesn't own purple suits.

Ya...we know who owns those.....the matching pimp hat to go with it too

 

[Kriss E]

MB is not my idol, only acknowledging his trades have been his saving grace, amateur scouting & development has been putrid during his tenure.

There seems to be this hatred of MB which clouds objective analysis of his job as GM of Habs. Most likely driven by trading of fan favorite Subban.

People were already discussing the flaws of Bergevin before but they were labeled haters.
I kept bringing up the major lack of direction and commitment from Bergey, but a lot just weren't ready to hear it. Most of those posters have come around because it's pretty much clear as day the man is not cut out for the job.

 

[Runner77]

People were already discussing the flaws of Bergevin before but they were labeled haters.
I kept bringing up the major lack of direction and commitment from Bergey, but a lot just weren't ready to hear it. Most of those posters have come around because it's pretty much clear as day the man is not cut out for the job.

It's important to remember that who became skeptical about Bergevin were at one time, giving him the benefit of the doubt. These people are not now, all of a sudden, disavowing him -- they've seen repeated instances of objectionable decisions, words not followed by action, lying, cronyism, incompetence, resorting to meaningless labels and contradictory statements. No one is "hating", they're merely objecting to his track record and have lost confidence in him. It's a purely rational decision. They're just fans who want to see a plan being implemented and better days for the team.

 

[Kriss E]

It's important to remember that who became skeptical about Bergevin were at one time, giving him the benefit of the doubt. These people are not now, all of a sudden, disavowing him -- they've seen repeated instances of objectionable decisions, words not followed by action, lying, cronyism, incompetence, resorting to meaningless labels and contradictory statements. No one is "hating", they're merely objecting to his track record and have lost confidence in him. It's a purely rational decision. They're just fans who want to see a plan being implemented and better days for the team.

Precisely. I kept repeating to those accusing me of hating that I created a Bergevin appreciation thread at the end of year 2. Credit where credit is due what the general idea. There were reasons to be very excited about the future at the end of that season. That seems like decades ago. I was so wrong about Bergevin.

 

[salbutera]

Just out of curiosity, do you believe Matt Duchene is a secondary asset?

No but the UFA that agreed to sign is (Chiarot). Duchene like all other name UFAs (Hull, Briere circa 2007, Hossa) never signed - that spans the last 4 Habs GMs. Mtl can’t compete for high end UFA with low tax & low luxury cost of living index that is Nashville - especially when it’s a CDN player who doesn’t have the ability to structure a contract that is mainly bonus laden, the way it can be for an American player (ie Auston Mathews deal)

 

[BLONG7]

It's important to remember that who became skeptical about Bergevin were at one time, giving him the benefit of the doubt. These people are not now, all of a sudden, disavowing him -- they've seen repeated instances of objectionable decisions, words not followed by action, lying, cronyism, incompetence, resorting to meaningless labels and contradictory statements. No one is "hating", they're merely objecting to his track record and have lost confidence in him. It's a purely rational decision. They're just fans who want to see a plan being implemented and better days for the team.

Most fans on here, are fans of the TEAM.......no matter who the GM is. MB has become in his eyes, the star, and that's a real sore point for me. He has made a mess of things, and has been allowed to try and get out of his own mess, and it's up for debate as to whether he can do this. It's not being a hater at all, if the guy just can't get it done.

The Habs no longer have the standards they used to. The Cup was the measuring stick, not the playoffs, and a hey we tried folks.

For the life of me, I will never understand Geoff Mol$on's perspective.

 

[salbutera]

For the life of me, I will never understand Geoff Mol$on's perspective.

From a business perspective he’s a big fish in a small pond that is Mtl, when sitting at the NHL table he’s likely a guppy swimming amongst sharks.

From a hockey perspective perhaps he sees things fans just don’t want to see - when Spezza comes out and says he won’t waive his NMC for a CDN market....until of course he’s washed up or Sundin saying the last place he’d ever play is Mtl.

I do wonder of all contracts in the NHL with NTC / NMC what % of those negatively impact Mtl and how that correlates to other NHL markets. Are Habs in the middle or bottom tier of least favorite NHL destinations for established players?

 

[Sorinth]

No but the UFA that agreed to sign is (Chiarot). Duchene like all other name UFAs (Hull, Briere circa 2007, Hossa) never signed - that spans the last 4 Habs GMs. Mtl can’t compete for high end UFA with low tax & low luxury cost of living index that is Nashville - especially when it’s a CDN player who doesn’t have the ability to structure a contract that is mainly bonus laden, the way it can be for an American player (ie Auston Mathews deal)

Cammalleri, Gionta, Hamrlik, Cole were all high end UFAs that previous GMs managed to sign.

 

[BLONG7]

From a business perspective he’s a big fish in a small pond that is Mtl, when sitting at the NHL table he’s likely a guppy swimming amongst sharks.

From a hockey perspective perhaps he sees things fans just don’t want to see - when Spezza comes out and says he won’t waive his NMC for a CDN market....until of course he’s washed up or Sundin saying the last place he’d ever play is Mtl.

I do wonder of all contracts in the NHL with NTC / NMC what % of those negatively impact Mtl and how that correlates to other NHL markets. Are Habs in the middle or bottom tier of least favorite NHL destinations for established players?

Winning.............would change all of this. Winning is what the players want.

Geoff Mol$on will not do, what it takes to WIN. This in my mind is the issue.

 

[ahmedou]

GM (NHL term) = General Manager

GM (Montreal term)= Geez Man

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

No but the UFA that agreed to sign is (Chiarot). Duchene like all other name UFAs (Hull, Briere circa 2007, Hossa) never signed - that spans the last 4 Habs GMs. Mtl can’t compete for high end UFA with low tax & low luxury cost of living index that is Nashville - especially when it’s a CDN player who doesn’t have the ability to structure a contract that is mainly bonus laden, the way it can be for an American player (ie Auston Mathews deal)

How can Matt Duchene not be a secondary asset when you are considering Cammalleri as one?

Cammy was 13th in scoring in the entire league just before we signed him. That's not secondary. Same with Gionta, scoring 30 goals in 60 games in his first season here, that's not secondary, it's better than any scoring rate Duchene has had over a season. Same with Cole.

See what I did there with that question? I showed your bias, i showed the false balance you're trying to portray, based on a freehanded use of the word secondary.

If Duchene is not secondary, neither were Cammalleri and to a lesser extent, Gionta.

My point was that what little power we had to attract UFAs, and clearly, we had some over the Gainey years, which rolled over to Gauthier's benefit, which was wilted and wasted away by Bergevin with very questionable actions and words.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Cammalleri, Gionta, Hamrlik, Cole were all high end UFAs that previous GMs managed to sign.

No, they're secondary assets like Chariot.

 

[DAChampion]

The Roman Hamrlik that Bob Gainey signed in 2007 would arguably be the number 1 dman on this team.

He was painfully underrated by the fanbase at the time, due to people having higher standards back then.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The Roman Hamrlik that Bob Gainey signed in 2007 would arguably be the number 1 dman on this team.

He was painfully underrated by the fanbase at the time, due to people having higher standards back then.

He had a terrific season in Calgary the season before coming here, played really good D. IMO, only Rafalski was more coveted among dmen in that year's ufa pool.

He was the piece missing on defense and the season that followed showed how important and judicious it was, habs getting their first 100 pts season in over a decade.

 

[BLONG7]

The Roman Hamrlik that Bob Gainey signed in 2007 would arguably be the number 1 dman on this team.

He was painfully underrated by the fanbase at the time, due to people having higher standards back then.

Very true.............higher standards is just not in the cards, the last 7-8 seasons...extensions for undeserving individuals is.

 

[DAChampion]

The Habs now meet my preferred definition of playing .500: They average one win every second game.

 

[26Mats]

The Roman Hamrlik that Bob Gainey signed in 2007 would arguably be the number 1 dman on this team.

He was painfully underrated by the fanbase at the time, due to people having higher standards back then.

I remember a couple years ago comparing Petry on a 2nd pair to Hamrlik. Poster's said there was no comparison.
Hammer was great. But Petry is emerging and hasn't written his final chapter with us.

Hammer's high with us was 34 points and 9 in 19 games. Petry just had seasons of 42 and 46 points and seems to be getting better and better. The league is becoming faster and less physical - and more and more suited to Petry's game. Petry could be as effective in 2019 as Hammrlik was in 2008-2011. Let's see what kind of season Petry has - offensively and defensively.

 

[Deluded Puck]

The Roman Hamrlik that Bob Gainey signed in 2007 would arguably be the number 1 dman on this team.

He was painfully underrated by the fanbase at the time, due to people having higher standards back then.

I’d argue he was underrated his entire career just because he was a 1st overall pick but never became a Nicklas Lindstrom.

 

[kgboomer]

Standards have changed a lot since I was young. It used to be at least 2 Stanley Cups in a row, now it's an accomplishment to see 2 wins in a row. It won't change with this chump as GM.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Standards have changed a lot since I was young. It used to be at least 2 Stanley Cups in a row, now it's an accomplishment to see 2 wins in a row. It won't change with this chump as GM.

new stardards :
almost winning the game,
almost making the playoffs.

 

[Miller Time]

Cammalleri, Gionta, Hamrlik, Cole were all high end UFAs that previous GMs managed to sign.

This should just be stickied at the top of all MB threads so we can skip rehashing the false narrative over and over again.

MB can't land top UFAs, not the Habs.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

One thing Houle did that was great? Even the worst GM can do somesthing fine....Souray and 2nd rounder for Malakhov. Hackett and Weinrick for Thibault, Manson. Also, a Houle, who wasn't a GM, had to deal with the Patrick Roy awful situation. But yes, he screwed up there. Screwed up in the Damphousse trade. And in the Turgeon trade. Amongst a few other things. Yet again....Corey is the game responsible for this whole mess. Houle answered the call. He should not have done it. But he did to the best of his abilities which were limited. History has no idea how the Habs would have been with Roy in net and the same core with Damphousse and Co.

Problem with Bergevin is that by how he conducts himself, he thinks his abilities are twice his biceps......

I'd love to know what Bergevin could do if Price openly ask for a trade...

There is nothing Houle did was good. He might have won few minor trades like Weinrich or Souray, he drafted Markov, he got Hmrlik. But his bad trades were the peak of bad trades and moves. Total disaster with HOF player Patrick Roy, washed up with Turgeon and got nothing for Damphousse. That killed the team for good. Only Crazy Milbury can equal this or maybe Houle is the top. Houle is my personal reference for worst gm of all times and he stays alone in his category, at the very top.

 

[Miller Time]

There is nothing Houle did was good. He might have won few minor trades like Weinrich or Souray, he drafted Markov, he got Hmrlik. But his bad trades were the peak of bad trades and moves. Total disaster with HOF player Patrick Roy, washed up with Turgeon and got nothing for Damphousse. That killed the team for good. Only Crazy Milbury can equal this or maybe Houle is the top. Houle is my personal reference for worst gm of all times and he stays alone in his category, at the very top.

Ownership cutting salary killed the team, Houle was just the messenger... A bad one, to be sure, but judging him without considering the context is silly.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Ownership cutting salary killed the team, Houle was just the messenger... A bad one, to be sure, but judging him without considering the context is silly.

That's BS. Yes, the team had to cut salary, but that didn't mean trading Turgeon for a washed up Corson. He had no idea what he was doing and hasn't sniffed an NHL job since his canning. Even Gauthier managed to find work after we canned him.