News Article: Bergevin leaks out interesting information

[Habskrieg]

IMO Beaulieu is just as good as Reilly. The Leafs are not afraid to play him tho.

edit



That actually make sense. #FireLefebvre

I don't think we're afraid to play Beaulieu. thing is, Laffs have to play Rielly.

 

[Whitesnake]

I think it was more of a case of Dudley liking Reilly more than the scouting staff, but Bergevin deferred to Timmins. He lets him do his job. Bergy would have seen eplay once, perhaps twice....not his job.

Exactly. Just like Bergevin saying last draft, to a question asking about Scherbak vs Ho-Sang, that he has seen those kids play....once.

 

[Hackett]

Should prove my point about drafting.....Draft belongs to scouts. Thank god it did, AGAIN, in 2012. People should stop with crediting or bashing GM's for drafts unless a GM did a trade to get or lose picks that permittted their drafting team to get a specific player. But the choosing of the player itself.....belongs to scouts and only them.

At the end, its still bergy's call. The scouts represent him. Therefore, he deserves credit even if he's just going with his scouts.

 

[Bob b smith]

The accepted wisdom with the Yakupov pick was that Oilers scouting was overruled...

 

[Whitesnake]

At the end, its still bergy's call. The scouts represent him. Therefore, he deserves credit even if he's just going with his scouts.

To each their own opinion I guess. I just can't agree. NOt because I don't understand who is the boss. But because I try to know exactly who plays the bigger role in order to congratulate or blame. I keep hearing how it's the GM who's at the top hence he's the one who gets the credit or the blame. And yet, before the GM goes because of awful drafting, I'm pretty sure head scouts and scouts lose their job before he does. So when the scouting looks bad, it's the GM who looks bad and yet....they lose their job way before he does. To each their own accountability. And I believe that scouting is its own beast.

Again, it can't be about going with the GM call, when his "call" is actually to tell his scouts to do their job as him, the GM, has no idea who to go with. Bergevin just admitted to have seen Scherbak once. "His" call in the end would be to again say to Timmins to go with how he thinks. Rinse and repeat till round 7. Congrats to Bergevin for recognizing Timmins talent. But that's about it for me. Bergevin has WAY many other areas to work on and to be judged on than on than this truly tough and unique job that is scouting.

 

[smirob]

To each their own opinion I guess. I just can't agree. NOt because I don't understand who is the boss. But because I try to know exactly who plays the bigger role in order to congratulate or blame. I keep hearing how it's the GM who's at the top hence he's the one who gets the credit or the blame. And yet, before the GM goes because of awful drafting, I'm pretty sure head scouts and scouts lose their job before he does. So when the scouting looks bad, it's the GM who looks bad and yet....they lose their job way before he does. To each their own accountability. And I believe that scouting is its own beast.

Again, it can't be about going with the GM call, when his "call" is actually to tell his scouts to do their job as him, the GM, has no idea who to go with. Bergevin just admitted to have seen Scherbak once. "His" call in the end would be to again say to Timmins to go with how he thinks. Rinse and repeat till round 7. Congrats to Bergevin for recognizing Timmins talent. But that's about it for me. Bergevin has WAY many other areas to work on and to be judged on than on than this truly tough and unique job that is scouting.

You don't like his dance moves do you?

 

[GREMLIN]

Good GM's should always trust their scouts because the scouts have a lot more information about the potential picks than the gm does, it's as simple as that IMO. A gm making the pick will base his pick off limited viewings which is a very bad idea when assesing a player's potential.

 

[Whitesnake]

The accepted wisdom with the Yakupov pick was that Oilers scouting was overruled...

Ondrej Palet was a 7th rounder. Hence it means that it's common that every year, most 7th rounders become great players in the league.

Did I say that it never happened? No. 'Cause to know what is the norm, you need some exceptions. And frankly, in that case, if what was said is the truth that it's not even the GM, it's the owner.....it's even less the norm......And if it was common practice in Edmonton....we know have our answeres to let the real pro take care of business....

 

[Whitesnake]

You don't like his dance moves do you?

I absolutely do. I think he's doing a really good job on things he actually can and do control.

 

[Grant McCagg]

The accepted wisdom with the Yakupov pick was that Oilers scouting was overruled...

Yep..it's common knowledge scouting world that the scouts liked Murray more, but that is a rare example..I would say it is very uncommon for the owner/GM to overrule the head scout..it sometimes happens with high picks, but it makes no sense for people who don't see these guys to overrule the guys who do.

If it was a common occurrence, you would hear about it a lot more often, trust me.

 

[Andy]

Yep..it's common knowledge scouting world that the scouts liked Murray more, but that is a rare example..I would say it is very uncommon for the owner/GM to overrule the head scout..it sometimes happens with high picks, but it makes no sense for people who don't see these guys to overrule the guys who do.

If it was a common occurrence, you would hear about it a lot more often, trust me.

Habs are lucky that happened. I don't think Columbus takes Yakupov at #2. They probably go with Galchenyuk.

 

[Whitesnake]

Habs are lucky that happened. I don't think Columbus takes Yakupov at #2. They probably go with Galchenyuk.

Do we go with Teravainen then?

 

[Hackett]

To each their own opinion I guess. I just can't agree. NOt because I don't understand who is the boss. But because I try to know exactly who plays the bigger role in order to congratulate or blame. I keep hearing how it's the GM who's at the top hence he's the one who gets the credit or the blame. And yet, before the GM goes because of awful drafting, I'm pretty sure head scouts and scouts lose their job before he does. So when the scouting looks bad, it's the GM who looks bad and yet....they lose their job way before he does. To each their own accountability. And I believe that scouting is its own beast.

Again, it can't be about going with the GM call, when his "call" is actually to tell his scouts to do their job as him, the GM, has no idea who to go with. Bergevin just admitted to have seen Scherbak once. "His" call in the end would be to again say to Timmins to go with how he thinks. Rinse and repeat till round 7. Congrats to Bergevin for recognizing Timmins talent. But that's about it for me. Bergevin has WAY many other areas to work on and to be judged on than on than this truly tough and unique job that is scouting.

While I agree with you in theory, the way the world works is that its the guys who bergy employs underneath him that are the ones that hold the fate of bergy, just like bergy holds their fate if they aren't doing a satisfactory job.

Whether its the capoligists, scouts, coaching staff, media relations etc... How well they do the job will directly reflect on how well bergy does his job, and on the flip side, it reflects poorly on him if they don't do a good job.

Bergy gets to construct the staff beneath him. While we can never fully know how good the staff is, we cannot quarrel too much about the results thus far.

 

[Andy]

Do we go with Teravainen then?

Maybe Reilly? You'd have to think Forsberg would be in play as well.

Looking back with hindsight, I'm not sure if Yakupov would be a Timmins/MB kind of player. Maybe Grant could confirm? I could be totally offbase here.

 

[Whitesnake]

While I agree with you in theory, the way the world works is that its the guys who bergy employs underneath him that are the ones that hold the fate of bergy, just like bergy holds their fate if they aren't doing a satisfactory job.

Whether its the capoligists, scouts, coaching staff, media relations etc... How well they do the job will directly reflect on how well bergy does his job, and on the flip side, it reflects poorly on him if they don't do a good job.

Bergy gets to construct the staff beneath him. While we can never fully know how good the staff is, we cannot quarrel too much about the results thus far.

But you and others say this as if the GM is the only accountable person in an organization. So when the scouting isn't too great.....does the owner or president immediately go to the GM and fire him? Or do they address the scouting first? If the GM is such the guy with the final say.....shouldn't he fire himself as he should be "responsible" for the draft? And that part of the game reflects on him.....why doesn't he pay the price for it? Yes, at one point, he might very well pay the price...How? If he hires always the wrong people. True. Then if he still hires the wrong people, it will mean that he probably doesn't have a good eye for that but for other things as well. Hence his overall job will be judged and will then be hold accountable and lose his job. But before we go there, I can tell you that often, everybody but the secretary will lose their job before he does. As far as drafting, Bergevin had to recognize Timmins talent. We all did in here. And we are not professionnals. André Savard had to bring the guy on board. Gainey had to believe in Savard's hiring. But Gauthier and Bergevin just had to look at the record.....Anyway, it's something we won't settle and frankly, I guess there are no bad or good opinions...just our opinion.

 

[Bob b smith]

Ondrej Palet was a 7th rounder. Hence it means that it's common that every year, most 7th rounders become great players in the league.

Did I say that it never happened? No. 'Cause to know what is the norm, you need some exceptions. And frankly, in that case, if what was said is the truth that it's not even the GM, it's the owner.....it's even less the norm......And if it was common practice in Edmonton....we know have our answeres to let the real pro take care of business....

I agree that seeing the state of the Oilers franchise, it wouldn't be a ringing endorsement for the practice of overruling scouting.

 

[Whitesnake]

Maybe Reilly? You'd have to think Forsberg would be in play as well.

Looking back with hindsight, I'm not sure if Yakupov would be a Timmins/MB kind of player. Maybe Grant could confirm? I could be totally offbase here.

Reilly would have been fine with me at the time. Forsberg surely would have to. And SURELY would look great now as well.....

 

[Whitesnake]

I agree that seeing the state of the Oilers franchise, it wouldn't be a ringing endorsement for the practice of overruling scouting.

BUt then, looking at the rest of the rounds in most of the Oilers drafting years.....it's also not an endorsement for the whole scouting group....

I didn't look at how and who was in charge for the last 14 years or something but THEN, at one point, any GM would have had to make the appropriate corrections to that group. THEN, the GM who would have gotten the Oilers the right scouting group would have been applauded and congratulate for a new and much better scouting group. I guess it changed over the years...not sure how many times....still doesn't work out.

 

[Hackett]

But you and others say this as if the GM is the only accountable person in an organization. So when the scouting isn't too great.....does the owner or president immediately go to the GM and fire him? Or do they address the scouting first? If the GM is such the guy with the final say.....shouldn't he fire himself as he should be "responsible" for the draft? And that part of the game reflects on him.....why doesn't he pay the price for it? Yes, at one point, he might very well pay the price...How? If he hires always the wrong people. True. Then if he still hires the wrong people, it will mean that he probably doesn't have a good eye for that but for other things as well. Hence his overall job will be judged and will then be hold accountable and lose his job. But before we go there, I can tell you that often, everybody but the secretary will lose their job before he does. As far as drafting, Bergevin had to recognize Timmins talent. We all did in here. And we are not professionnals. André Savard had to bring the guy on board. Gainey had to believe in Savard's hiring. But Gauthier and Bergevin just had to look at the record.....Anyway, it's something we won't settle and frankly, I guess there are no bad or good opinions...just our opinion.

I respect your opinion. I don't have anything new to add so I'll leave it at that.

 

[dcal64]

Reilly would have been fine with me at the time. Forsberg surely would have to. And SURELY would look great now as well.....

Thank God we didn't draft Forsberg, he would have been traded for Erat

 

[DAChampion]

Is the Forsberg trade worse than the McDonagh trade?

 

[groovejuice]

Is the Forsberg trade worse than the McDonagh trade?

I honestly think we won't know for some time, but there's definitely an equivalency there.

 

[Habskrieg]

Is the Forsberg trade worse than the McDonagh trade?

They're both similar. I think Gomez was worse. We still had to deal with his ****** contract and ended up using a compliance buyout to end this. Erat was gone soon after the trade.

We'll constantly be reminded of that dumb trade we did. Oh well...

I like how Bergevin's so level headed. His eye is on the cup. We're in a good position and when asked by RDS how he feels about our standing right now, he says it's good but it means nothing because we played a quarter of the season and we need to show up in the playoffs. Which is 100% true. Though, I think it's interesting he had to say it.

 

[Devourers]

Don't get why people are using Reilly as an example of a bullet dodge. Our team would be equally solid with him, not that I don't prefer AG but Morgan Reilly would have been a solid pick had MB taken him.

 

[SquiddFX]

I am curious and maybe Grant can answer this. How do teams scout players or target specific players? Does Timmins have a list of guys he has on his radar or do his scouts give him a list of players? Are there specific things to look for in players that the team is specifically looking for, ie size, ferocity, character? How often do the scouts get together and talk about certain prospects?

I think I have more but it's late and I am slightly drunk.