News Article: Bergevin leaks out interesting information

[Grant McCagg]

I am curious and maybe Grant can answer this. How do teams scout players or target specific players? Does Timmins have a list of guys he has on his radar or do his scouts give him a list of players? Are there specific things to look for in players that the team is specifically looking for, ie size, ferocity, character? How often do the scouts get together and talk about certain prospects?

I think I have more but it's late and I am slightly drunk.

Each scout has a team book with a page you fill in each game that has several categories to grade and a space for comments.

Each team would have a different book and different categories..some teams would have more categories than others, it varies.

You rate every prospect playing in the game..usually it is out of 5...the best possible rating being 5, and that's not easy to achieve. Steven Stamkos had a few 5's in his draft year...but it's rare to see a prospect with several 5 gradings...this year of course being another exception.

Sense
Skating
Skill
Competitiveness
Character
Shot


Those are the main categories. Some teams add defensive sense, puckhandling may be a separate category or vision or speed, normally there is more than one skill category..it depends on the team, and how they word it.

In addition to the grades you also rate the player's game performance, and finally give him an overall rating..for some it's letters..

An A prospect is a top-line fwd or dman
A B is a 2nd or third liner
A C is a fourth liner/AHLer
A D is minor leagues
A F is NFG

There are usually part-time regional scouts, crossover regional scouts, and the head scout.

The regional guys see players in the Q or O or W or wherever..relay their thoughts to the head scout..as the year goes along he decides where to send his crossover guys, who at the start of the year pretty much concentrate on their region where they live...Frank Jay mostly going to OHL games, Churla out west and Boisvert out east.

After a couple of months Churla will go see players Frank Jay recommended in Ontario and ones Audette and Boisvert recommended in the Q and vice versa...to see teams with prospects liked by the regional guys. Trevor goes to see players recommended by regional scouts everywhere...he's hopping all over the continent and globe..even goes to see guys I recommend or have heard good things about from other scouts on occasion. Trevor meets up with his scouts at games all the time...some games there are three or four or even five Hab scouts at the same game..with meetings afterwards. There are meetings throughout the year.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Each scout has a team book with a page you fill in each game that has several categories to grade and a space for comments.

Each team would have a different book and different categories..some teams would have more categories than others, it varies.

You rate every prospect playing in the game..usually it is out of 5...the best possible rating being 5, and that's not easy to achieve. Steven Stamkos had a few 5's in his draft year...but it's rare to see a prospect with several 5 gradings...this year of course being another exception.

Sense
Skating
Skill
Competitiveness
Character
Shot


Those are the main categories. Some teams add defensive sense, puckhandling may be a separate category or vision or speed, normally there is more than one skill category..it depends on the team, and how they word it.

In addition to the grades you also rate the player's game performance, and finally give him an overall rating..for some it's letters..

An A prospect is a top-line fwd or dman
A B is a 2nd or third liner
A C is a fourth liner/AHLer
A D is minor leagues
A F is NFG

There are usually part-time regional scouts, crossover regional scouts, and the head scout.

The regional guys see players in the Q or O or W or wherever..relay their thoughts to the head scout..as the year goes along he decides where to send his crossover guys, who at the start of the year pretty much concentrate on their region where they live...Frank Jay mostly going to OHL games, Churla out west and Boisvert out east.

After a couple of months Churla will go see players Frank Jay recommended in Ontario and ones Audette and Boisvert recommended in the Q and vice versa...to see teams with prospects liked by the regional guys. Trevor goes to see players recommended by regional scouts everywhere...he's hopping all over the continent and globe..even goes to see guys I recommend or have heard good things about from other scouts on occasion. Trevor meets up with his scouts at games all the time...some games there are three or four or even five Hab scouts at the same game..with meetings afterwards. There are meetings throughout the year.

Too bad other teams pick ahead of the Habs and disrupt their plans, not to mention that pick selections are traded. Oh well, the Habs have done OK, and the Bruins traded away a superstar for a loui. At this point I regard the Lightning as the Habs' toughest competititor in the Atlantic Division.

 

[SquiddFX]

That was a great read Grant. Thanks for responding to my late night ramblings. Real interesting insight

 

[Scintillating10]

I think it was more of a case of Dudley liking Reilly more than the scouting staff, but Bergevin deferred to Timmins. He lets him do his job. Bergy would have seen eplay once, perhaps twice....not his job.

Dudley better stick to pro scouting and leave amateur scouting alone. Passing on Galchenyuk would have been quite the miss

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dudley better stick to pro scouting and leave amateur scouting alone. Passing on Galchenyuk would have been quite the miss

Rielly would be playing the wing right now under Therrien learning how to play defense.

 

[Rapala]

Rielly would be playing the wing right now under Therrien learning how to play defense.

The sad thing is you are right...
I don't understand an organization who draft a player with certain God Given talents, and then proceed to do everything possible to work it out of them. People were ******** on Beaulieu last night for his decision making process.
I'm sorry but if you drafted Nate to fire it off the glass you need your head examined.
He will always try to keep possesion. Bring your FN forwards back and help him with his decision making by offering an easy outlet like every other responsible team.

 

[Habnot]

Rielly would be playing the wing right now under Therrien learning how to play defense.

There is no way Rielly would be in the NHL if the Habs drafted him, he would be in Hamilton no doubt.

I never felt the Rielly love. He seems like a tweener in every sense of the word. His play on Russia's GWG in OT at the WJC spoke volumes. I don;t consider any part of his game elite, just good all around.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Each scout has a team book with a page you fill in each game that has several categories to grade and a space for comments.

Each team would have a different book and different categories..some teams would have more categories than others, it varies.

You rate every prospect playing in the game..usually it is out of 5...the best possible rating being 5, and that's not easy to achieve. Steven Stamkos had a few 5's in his draft year...but it's rare to see a prospect with several 5 gradings...this year of course being another exception.

Sense
Skating
Skill
Competitiveness
Character
Shot


Those are the main categories. Some teams add defensive sense, puckhandling may be a separate category or vision or speed, normally there is more than one skill category..it depends on the team, and how they word it.

In addition to the grades you also rate the player's game performance, and finally give him an overall rating..for some it's letters..

An A prospect is a top-line fwd or dman
A B is a 2nd or third liner
A C is a fourth liner/AHLer
A D is minor leagues
A F is NFG

There are usually part-time regional scouts, crossover regional scouts, and the head scout.

The regional guys see players in the Q or O or W or wherever..relay their thoughts to the head scout..as the year goes along he decides where to send his crossover guys, who at the start of the year pretty much concentrate on their region where they live...Frank Jay mostly going to OHL games, Churla out west and Boisvert out east.

After a couple of months Churla will go see players Frank Jay recommended in Ontario and ones Audette and Boisvert recommended in the Q and vice versa...to see teams with prospects liked by the regional guys. Trevor goes to see players recommended by regional scouts everywhere...he's hopping all over the continent and globe..even goes to see guys I recommend or have heard good things about from other scouts on occasion. Trevor meets up with his scouts at games all the time...some games there are three or four or even five Hab scouts at the same game..with meetings afterwards. There are meetings throughout the year.

Interesting.

 

[Habnot]

The sad thing is you are right...
I don't understand an organization who draft a player for with certain God Given talents, and then proceed to do everything possible to work it out of them. People were ******** on Beaulieu last night for his decision making process.
I'm sorry but if you drafted Nate to fire it off the glass you need your head examined.
He will always try to keep possesion. Bring your FN forwards back and help him with his decision making by offering an easy outlet like every other responsible team.

This is ridiculous you trying to rationalize a blatant mistake and one that shouldn't be done by a professional.

I just re-watched the first goal 10 times and he had four easy options available to him
1. Pass it across to Gilbert - wide open
2. Pass it to Bowman - wide open
3. Attempt to skate it out by the boards, definitely had the skating room
4. Bank it off the glass

He chose option 5 - pass it to Weise in the middle of 2 fore checkers.

The play was off a faceoff - he had easy outlets. But I see how this works, you hate Therrien - blame him for everything. Your favorite players, they can't do no wrong.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Dudley better stick to pro scouting and leave amateur scouting alone. Passing on Galchenyuk would have been quite the miss

Dudley has seen more junior games than some NHL teams' entire scouting staffs. He's a workaholic. I have no issue with him helping out on the amateur side. He'll offer his opinions and help get the staff some leads, but like Bergevin leave it up to Timmins.

 

[Rapala]

This is ridiculous you trying to rationalize a blatant mistake and one that shouldn't be done by a professional.

I just re-watched the first goal 10 times and he had four easy options available to him
1. Pass it across to Gilbert - wide open
2. Pass it to Bowman - wide open
3. Attempt to skate it out by the boards, definitely had the skating room
4. Bank it off the glass

He chose option 5 - pass it to Weise in the middle of 2 fore checkers.

The play was off a faceoff - he had easy outlets. But I see how this works, you hate Therrien - blame him for everything. Your favorite players, they can't do no wrong.

Sorry wrong...
I posted it was a bad play by Beaulieu all along.
I am entitled to hate MT's peewee break out scheme?
I don't see any of our D skating the puck i see them all firing long fn bombs.
My point is a properly structured system allows for easier decision making.
I don't know why Nate didn't see Bowman perhaps if he was 10 feet away insteadof 35 he may have.
This constant stretch **** is a joke.

 

[Price4Prez]

Hey Grant,

What is your opinion on Churla, Frank Jay, and Boisvert....you rarely ever hear anything about them. How much pull do these guys have in regards to which players are scouted furthur and/or drafted.

Also, an F grade (NFG), does the acronym stand for what the evil voice in my head says it does?

 

[calder candidate]

I don't have trouble beliving that he doesn't use analytics to make decision on is own team but I'm sure they do keep anlaytics on is own player being able to compare to the rest of the league and it give you the insight into which player the other GM is or could be targeting.

 

[Scintillating10]

Dudley has seen more junior games than some NHL teams' entire scouting staffs. He's a workaholic. I have no issue with him helping out on the amateur side. He'll offer his opinions and help get the staff some leads, but like Bergevin leave it up to Timmins.

Choosing Reilly over Galchenyuk would have been a nightmare. Being a workaholic has nothing to do with it. If he can't judge amateur talent don't want his opinion anywhere near the team. It's going to lead team to make wrong choice at some point.

 

[DAChampion]

Choosing Reilly over Galchenyuk would have been a nightmare. Being a workaholic has nothing to do with it. If he can't judge amateur talent don't want his opinion anywhere near the team. It's going to lead team to make wrong choice at some point.

They didn't draft Reilly. Quit looking for reasons to complain.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Choosing Reilly over Galchenyuk would have been a nightmare. Being a workaholic has nothing to do with it. If he can't judge amateur talent don't want his opinion anywhere near the team. It's going to lead team to make wrong choice at some point.

Every scout makes mistakes, including Timmins. What you don't want is a bunch of yes-men getting together in a room so they can circle-jerk to how great they all are because they all see the same thing. I want people who are going to challenge your opinion, throw something else out there, force you to defend yourself and maybe even change your mind. Rather than just dismissing his love of Reilly "because Timmins said so" I would prefer that Dudley/Bergevin/Whoever get in his face and demand to know why Galchenyuk is better. Maybe Timmins can come back with "you think Reilly does this, this and this, but I'll show you why that doesn't work", or maybe he'll take another look at it and see something that he missed, and be forced to re-evaluate. Otherwise, why bother having a scouting team? Why not just take Bob McKenzie's final rankings and use that?

 

[habsfanatics*]

Every scout makes mistakes, including Timmins. What you don't want is a bunch of yes-men getting together in a room so they can circle-jerk to how great they all are because they all see the same thing. I want people who are going to challenge your opinion, throw something else out there, force you to defend yourself and maybe even change your mind. Rather than just dismissing his love of Reilly "because Timmins said so" I would prefer that Dudley/Bergevin/Whoever get in his face and demand to know why Galchenyuk is better. Maybe Timmins can come back with "you think Reilly does this, this and this, but I'll show you why that doesn't work", or maybe he'll take another look at it and see something that he missed, and be forced to re-evaluate. Otherwise, why bother having a scouting team? Why not just take Bob McKenzie's final rankings and use that?

Reilly is going to be stud too. Dudley wasn't far off, in the end, he went with Timmins and Co. Him saying he likes player x is fine, so long as he doesn't try to trump TT, and it looks like he doesn't.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Drafting a dman for a team that has had a weakness in center for the last 20 years would have been a dumb move no matter how you sugar coat it.

 

[Rapala]

Drafting a dman for a team that has had a weakness in center for the last 20 years would have been a dumb move no matter how you sugar coat it.

Oh did we draft a C?

 

[Grant McCagg]

Choosing Reilly over Galchenyuk would have been a nightmare. Being a workaholic has nothing to do with it. If he can't judge amateur talent don't want his opinion anywhere near the team. It's going to lead team to make wrong choice at some point.

Holy ****...what is this Reilly hate all of a sudden..for all we know he could have a better career than Galchenyuk..don't count your chickens and look like a fool later.

Rielly is a good player...don't be judging a dman two years after he was drafted..that's nonsense. Did anyone here think two years after he was drafted that McDonagh would arguably be one of the top five dmen in the league?

I think Alex will be better, but that's not etched in stone.

Many teams ended up having Rielly in their top five..and it's not like Trevor didn't like him as well, just not as much as Alex. There may have been a record set for the number of scouts that went out to see him in a playoff game his draft year..so let's not get too critical of Dudley..he was not alone in liking the kid.

Trevor's main issue with Rielly was his skating mechanics, but he liked him too.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Drafting a dman for a team that has had a weakness in center for the last 20 years would have been a dumb move no matter how you sugar coat it.

So if the Blue Jackets had of taken Galchenyuk at #2 we should have taken Grigorenko?

Whatever happened to "best player available?" If you think another player is going to be better, then you take the better player, no matter what position he plays.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Drafting a dman for a team that has had a weakness in center for the last 20 years would have been a dumb move no matter how you sugar coat it.

the Hindsight Kings are out in full force today.

Keep seeing the words "would have". They didn't..did they?

If JFK had decided to press the button during the Bay of Pigs we "would have" been in deep doo doo. He didn't did he?

The funniest thing about this statement is that Chuck has yet to play a game at center for the Habs....again..chicken counting at the hatchery.

There is also no definitive evidence that Chuck will be light years better than Rielly. The kid was a regular NHL dman a year after he was drafted....he's pretty good too. Give it five years and we'll see how much of a gap there is between them..I have a feeling it will be closer than you think...unfortunately.

 

[montreal]

There are usually part-time regional scouts, crossover regional scouts, and the head scout.

The regional guys see players in the Q or O or W or wherever..relay their thoughts to the head scout..as the year goes along he decides where to send his crossover guys, who at the start of the year pretty much concentrate on their region where they live...Frank Jay mostly going to OHL games, Churla out west and Boisvert out east.

After a couple of months Churla will go see players Frank Jay recommended in Ontario and ones Audette and Boisvert recommended in the Q and vice versa...to see teams with prospects liked by the regional guys. Trevor goes to see players recommended by regional scouts everywhere...he's hopping all over the continent and globe..even goes to see guys I recommend or have heard good things about from other scouts on occasion. Trevor meets up with his scouts at games all the time...some games there are three or four or even five Hab scouts at the same game..with meetings afterwards. There are meetings throughout the year.

I always wondered how much say each scout will have. As an example if the regional scout really likes someone but the crossover scout doesn't, I assume that the head scout will jump in but what happens if the head scout hasn't had the chance to see said player, would they over rule the crossover scout and go with the regional scout's opinion or does the crossover scouts opinion carry that much more weight?

 

[Rapala]

I don't see how we could ever have ended up with Grigorenko.

Morgan Rielly is totally impressive IMO.
He possesses a ton of it all.
Just lacking on the physical side but that didn't hamper Brian Leetch or Phil Housley...

 

[Grant McCagg]

I always wondered how much say each scout will have. As an example if the regional scout really likes someone but the crossover scout doesn't, I assume that the head scout will jump in but what happens if the head scout hasn't had the chance to see said player, would they over rule the crossover scout and go with the regional scout's opinion or does the crossover scouts opinion carry that much more weight?

They make a draft ranking like every team..so things are hashed out. The team takes the top player left on the list...unless two players are really close and the second one better fills a team need...then he may be taken instead.

Regional guys have some say, but certainly the crossover scouts' opinions are more weighted.

Usually if a regional scout likes a player..the head scout will see him at some point, quite often with the crossover scout, unless the crossover scout really doesn't like him. Even then Trevor will probably go see the player.

As was stated earlier..it's okay to have different opinions..you don't want a staff of sheep.

Dudley's is an extra voice..a very experienced one. Even Bergy and Mellanby go look at a few prospects. Why not? Duds and Bergy worked in amateur scouting and have good reputations.