Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge

[Bitterman]

Bettman has put the kabosh on executives talking about this (as seen from the power the commish has with the bylaws and the size of fines he can impose). Imagine what he might do if they showed up at a rally.

I can imagine the NHL, and perhaps the NHLPA, don't want the players to "choose sides" either. Now perhaps the players could send a spouse?

GB doesn't want executives talking negatively about what's going on and will fine anyone who does. As we've seen, if anyone wants to talk in support of the league's position there are no restrictions.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

And if it was as simple as that there wouldn't be huge fines on anyone, owners included who say anything deemed inappropriate or outside of what GB says. That's why the only BoG talk we've heard through the media is only against JB. Anyone thinking otherwise cannot speak up publicly.

What fellow owners will certainly be telling GB is that their unwilling to pay for losses in Phoenix while an owner is found so there will be great pressure on GB to deliver... and the only way that will happen is if the new oners can relocate in short order.

Several quotes from NHL insiders say Balsillie could get two Governor's votes. I wonder which two teams?


Perhaps Dolan from the Rangers. Who is the other one?
Not the Leafs or Sabres, not Nashville, Pittsburgh or Calgary.

 

[Bitterman]

The Argos group finances are under question

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=281989

Lulz!

The smoke and mirrors show continues. Hearsay indeed. If these sad sacks needed to be secretly loaned half of a paltry $2mm investment is there any doubt that their "Interest" in buying Phoenix is nothing more than a PR move to get some media face time.

I imagine the secret Phoenix businessman who's also "Interested" is BS as well. Reinsdorf? Even if he does bid on a short term stay in Phoenix that bid will be far less than the $130mm we've had rumors about.

Be funny as hell if JB eventually bought the team for even less than his first offer

 

[Tra La La]

Any confirmation things will follow the NHL's proposed bidding process?

 

[KevFu]

Several quotes from NHL insiders say Balsillie could get two Governor's votes. I wonder which two teams?


Perhaps Dolan from the Rangers. Who is the other one?
Not the Leafs or Sabres, not Nashville, Pittsburgh or Calgary.

Do Montreal and Toronto usually vote the same, or would Montreal love to screw over Toronto any chance they got?

 

[Bitterman]

Several quotes from NHL insiders say Balsillie could get two Governor's votes. I wonder which two teams?


Perhaps Dolan from the Rangers. Who is the other one?
Not the Leafs or Sabres, not Nashville, Pittsburgh or Calgary.

I think the votes will shift once it becomes obvious there will be no bidders without the team being movable within 3 years and the league is stuck paying for the losses.

I don't think expansion is a viable option going forward so if the teams want an infusion of cash it'll have to come as a relocation fee to SO. No other market could generate anything close to a similar payoff.

 

[bbud]

Balsilie has some extra change in his pocket today. Perhaps he should buy that team. Its right where he wants it too.

maybe he will and then sip on some good old Canadian beer ya know the good stuff from molsons or labbatts

 

[pepty]

I am not sure how Balsilllie thinks his interent website campaign is
going to reverse the judge's deciison or make the BOG consider him a
team player

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/NHL/...line=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=True

During a news conference in Toronto today Walker said the Balsillie group wants fans to voice their support and will be emailing members of its Make It Seven website in the coming days to explain how they can get involved.

 

[Kritter471]

Bigger cities with less competition for hockey-specific ad dollars could produce a much greater payoff than a team in Hamilton. A successful team in Houston, as an example, would be much more profitable than a successful team in Hamilton because the advertisers in Houston won't see the team as a "second-tier" team to the Leafs like the advertisers in Southern Ontario would. Seattle is similar. Combine that with the vastly greater population size and "untapped" NHL fans (as opposed to drawing on people that are already NHL fans in SO), and you've got the biggest reasons why SunBelt markets and even cities like Winnipeg make more business sense than Hamilton. Gate is important, but gate is hugely reliant on big-time corporate buyers.

Again, a potential Hamilton franchise would be equivalent to the Devils. Technically its own market, but really part of a market that is already dominated in terms of fan base and corporate commitment to another team.

 

[bbud]

Bigger cities with less competition for hockey-specific ad dollars could produce a much greater payoff than a team in Hamilton. A successful team in Houston, as an example, would be much more profitable than a successful team in Hamilton because the advertisers in Houston won't see the team as a "second-tier" team to the Leafs like the advertisers in Southern Ontario would. Seattle is similar. Combine that with the vastly greater population size and "untapped" NHL fans (as opposed to drawing on people that are already NHL fans in SO), and you've got the biggest reasons why SunBelt markets and even cities like Winnipeg make more business sense than Hamilton. Gate is important, but gate is hugely reliant on big-time corporate buyers.

Again, a potential Hamilton franchise would be equivalent to the Devils. Technically its own market, but really part of a market that is already dominated in terms of fan base and corporate commitment to another team.

You really do need to travel to S Ontario and see what hockey is there , its huge large numbers of players and well supported at every level and has fans willing to pay , i do think you would truly need to see it firsthand before making those comments and the fans signed up in days JB had ticket sales go incredibly fast over 14k on deposit list and corporate support in Canada is a given with only 6 other teams that is a very easy one to add more of especially in Ont

 

[Crazy_Ike]

I am not sure how Balsilllie thinks his interent website campaign is
going to reverse the judge's deciison or make the BOG consider him a
team player

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/NHL/...line=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=True

During a news conference in Toronto today Walker said the Balsillie group wants fans to voice their support and will be emailing members of its Make It Seven website in the coming days to explain how they can get involved.

Because to Balsillie, PR is more important than actually having the law on his side.

It's not like he has anything else left to use...

 

[NotBad*]

You really do need to travel to S Ontario and see what hockey is there , its huge large numbers of players and well supported at every level and has fans willing to pay , i do think you would truly need to see it firsthand before making those comments and the fans signed up in days JB had ticket sales go incredibly fast over 14k on deposit list and corporate support in Canada is a given with only 6 other teams that is a very easy one to add more of especially in Ont

Just to Add,

My company was willing to put up money for a set of 8 tickets.... My company is in edmonton.

 

[David Singleton]

I think the votes will shift once it becomes obvious there will be no bidders without the team being movable within 3 years and the league is stuck paying for the losses.

I don't think expansion is a viable option going forward so if the teams want an infusion of cash it'll have to come as a relocation fee to SO. No other market could generate anything close to a similar payoff.

I disagree that JB will eventually win this bid.

For argument's sake, let's assume that we follow the NHL's published steps for the bidding process (first an auction to keep the team in Phoenix, then a second option for relocation- pre-approval by the BoG for all bidders and locations in the second case).

Let's also concede (only for arguments sake) that no qualified bidder emerges in the first auction.

Now, we are about to proceed to the second auction that would allow relocation to approved locations from qualified bidders. The first step would be to establish the proper total for Glendale as a creditor due to the lease obviously being broken. This amount would affect all bids the same.

Here are the points in this potential time line in which I believe that JB would be disqualified and/or withdraw:

1) JB's application for franchise ownership could be disapproved by the league for those actions since 2006. My personal opinion is that the league would succeed in establishing an argument against JB.
2) JB's approved but Hamilton could be disapproved as a NHL market due to legitimately argued, and supported, reasons by the NHL (impact to Buffalo, perception of the league by partners, etc.).
3) Since every approved market will have a different relocation fee (see formula established by the court), and some markets may have indemnity (territory infringement) fees while some may not, I could see a bid from another market be significantly lower overall and still best satisfy (the most) creditors.

If it get's to the second auction, I fully expect to see Vegas (Bruckheimer) and Winnipeg enter the picture. I expect both to be approved locations by the league and neither would have to pay any territory infringement fees. Could potential owners in those locations win when their total out-of-pocket costs do not have to include those higher/additional fees? I think so.

Far from over, but I think JB's road just got exponentially tougher.


* Edited for clarity regarding Glendale.

 

[copperandblue]

I think it was ignored. Considering this is the 4th NHL team bankruptcy in the past 10 years, and that the team wasn't revoked the previous 3 times, I think the NHL would have a hard time arguing that point with a straight face.

Isn't the clause that Wetcoaster posted conditional of the individual owner acting without the consent of the BOG's?

In the case of the other teams, declaring bankruptcy may have been done with the NHL's blessing.

Actually in the other cases wasn't Bettman pretty much front and center with the owners when the other teams did that?

 

[eliostar]

What happens in this scenario?
1. No local buyer is found in phoenix (very possible).
2. NHL goes to its plan B, the auction with relocation. 2 bids emerge. Balsillie offers $230 million plus an extra $90 million relocation fee. A slight overpayment but one which he would likely be ok with. NHL of course rejects this application. Bid # 2 for arguement sake comes from a Kansas City (or Vegas) buyer, who bids $170 million for the team, with no relocation fee. NHL BOG of course unanimously approves this bid.
What does the good judge do here? Balsillies bid offers $60 million more for the creditors. Does he allow the classic Bettman wink wink nudge nudge deal to go through with KC or does he order the Balsillie deal as the winner to better satisfy the creditors, against NHL wishes?
The actual numbers won't be exactly like I have listed here but the point is that it's almost certain that Balsillie will have the biggest bid in the auction for relocation.

He would take the second offer, it satisfies the creditors for the most part plus it allows a timely process.
If he picks Balsillie's offer it would get messy.

 

[Big Country]

I am not sure how Balsilllie thinks his interent website campaign is
going to reverse the judge's deciison or make the BOG consider him a
team player

During a news conference in Toronto today Walker said the Balsillie group wants fans to voice their support and will be emailing members of its Make It Seven website in the coming days to explain how they can get involved.

The stubborn determination to repeat, over and over, the same mistakes is truly astounding. Perhaps this is the downside of an entrepreneur's vaunted refusal to admit failure until the goal is achieved. Or, perhaps it's simply the bad advice he's getting. Either way, it's remarkable--the man's a testimony to human endurance and optimism in the face of abject defeat.

 

[Bitterman]

Bigger cities with less competition for hockey-specific ad dollars could produce a much greater payoff than a team in Hamilton. A successful team in Houston, as an example, would be much more profitable than a successful team in Hamilton because the advertisers in Houston won't see the team as a "second-tier" team to the Leafs like the advertisers in Southern Ontario would. Seattle is similar. Combine that with the vastly greater population size and "untapped" NHL fans (as opposed to drawing on people that are already NHL fans in SO), and you've got the biggest reasons why SunBelt markets and even cities like Winnipeg make more business sense than Hamilton. Gate is important, but gate is hugely reliant on big-time corporate buyers.

Again, a potential Hamilton franchise would be equivalent to the Devils. Technically its own market, but really part of a market that is already dominated in terms of fan base and corporate commitment to another team.

These arguments are exactly what GB thought when he trumpeted expansion into the southern states. Size of city is just the starting point. Interest in the product is what matters so suggesting that teams move to regions where there ticket price is half of what it is in Canada to attract buyers and where Arena Football blows the doors off NHL hockey in the ratings hardly guarantees success.

Using your logic Phoenix should have been a slam dunk success, not a money loser every year of it's existence with one of the cheapest tickets in the league. The reality here is that a team in a reasonably sized city in SO would have no problem becoming one of the top 8 revenue teams in the NHL.

 

[RR]

The stubborn determination to repeat, over and over, the same mistakes is truly astounding. Perhaps this is the downside of an entrepreneur's vaunted refusal to admit failure until the goal is achieved. Or, perhaps it's simply the bad advice he's getting. Either way, it's remarkable--the man's a testimony to human endurance and optimism in the face of abject defeat.

But from a business perspective, he's developed one hell of a database comprised of a specific demographic: Canadian hockey fans. Pretty ingenious if you ask me.

 

[David Singleton]

What happens in this scenario?
1. No local buyer is found in phoenix (very possible).
2. NHL goes to its plan B, the auction with relocation. 2 bids emerge. Balsillie offers $230 million plus an extra $90 million relocation fee. A slight overpayment but one which he would likely be ok with. NHL of course rejects this application. Bid # 2 for arguement sake comes from a Kansas City (or Vegas) buyer, who bids $170 million for the team, with no relocation fee. NHL BOG of course unanimously approves this bid.
What does the good judge do here? Balsillies bid offers $60 million more for the creditors. Does he allow the classic Bettman wink wink nudge nudge deal to go through with KC or does he order the Balsillie deal as the winner to better satisfy the creditors, against NHL wishes?
The actual numbers won't be exactly like I have listed here but the point is that it's almost certain that Balsillie will have the biggest bid in the auction for relocation.

For consistency sake, every potential new market would have an NHL-specified (using court-based formula) relocation fee. That fee would almost assuredly be different for each market.

I would additionally expect some markets to have territory infringement fees (Hamilton being one, Seattle another for example) while some would not (Winnipeg, Las Vegas, Houston, etc.).

Bids would be judged by the court based upon their ability to best satisfy the most creditors, not the largest overall amount. Variable amounts for relocation and territory infringement fees would guarantee that total "out-of-pocket" amount could not be used to determine the best bid. I would expect that bids amounts would consist of three totals: (a) franchise value (paid to the creditors), (b) relocation fees for applied and approved new market, and (c) any territory infringement fees required for the potential new market. I would only expect (a) to be used in determining the winning bid.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer either. I just like reading the tea leaves. ;-)

 

[Moobles]

In reality, I really don't see this case as being as big a deal, in terms of owner's controlling franchise location, as people make it seem to be. 14 years ago the Nordiques were sold while not in bankruptcy to a group in Denver, Colorado- where there were moved that summer (ofc they later won the cup).

Winnipeg and Hartford were also quickly sold and relocated. This was done completely outside of bankruptcy proceedings, and the league did not crumble and fall apart.

The judge saw and understands this and it's important to keep it in mind. Balsille's bid is not "shot down" and he is not "finished" like some posters have suggested here (whether you agree with his attempts to purchase or not). The judge found him unable to hold the NHL hostage to the June 22nd deadline, and now he will have to follow their auctioning rules.

Good for Phoenix though for being able to keep their team for another year, I hope things go well. It is unfortunate that sober Hamilton fans have to go through so much hope and denial, but hopefully the league smartens up and grants you a long and well-deserved expansion franchise.

 

[Kritter471]

You really do need to travel to S Ontario and see what hockey is there , its huge large numbers of players and well supported at every level and has fans willing to pay , i do think you would truly need to see it firsthand before making those comments and the fans signed up in days JB had ticket sales go incredibly fast over 14k on deposit list and corporate support in Canada is a given with only 6 other teams that is a very easy one to add more of especially in Ont

I'm not talking about there not being hockey fans there. You're misunderstanding my point - I'm talking about the revenue there already being tapped by, in particular, the Leafs.

Hamiltonis in a marketplace with hockey advertisers already committed to a big team. It's just moving revenue and fans around and adding minimal amounts overall. Combine that with advertisers always being attracted to the team with the bigger fan base (which will always be the Leafs), and Hamilton I don't think will have the big-time corporate sponsorships any pro franchise needs. Buffalo struggles with this as it is. You think Molson, for a completely hypothetical example, will pay $4 million a season for prime commercial time during Hamilton games, their logo on the boards and good season tickets when they could pay $8 million to the Leafs but get 10 times the return because the Leafs have 20 times the fanbase? It doesn't make sense, and there's no reason to do both when a franchise is as omnipresent as the Leafs is.

It's like.... the DFW Metroplex could support another NFL team. Heck, Austin or San Antonio could support another NFL team some 160 and 200 miles away. But the vast majority of people there are already Cowboys fans, and Texas advertisers already have their money invested in the NFL. A team in Fort Worth (city of nearly a million in a metro area of 6 million) brings in minimal new revenue to the league, it just siphons it from another franchise. Same for Austin and, to a lesser extent, San Antonio. Houston works because it's 270 or so miles away and vastly different in terms of corporate structure and culture, but even the Texans don't bring near the ad revenue or gate revenue the Cowboys do. It's a question of TheFranchise sucking up all ad dollars with or without another team there and people already being blindly loyal to that team.

That's why I think, if you're going Canadian cities, Winnipeg is a better option. It doesn't have the huge looming beast of TheFranchise within 50 miles and directly in the broadcast region.

Before you bring up New York, that metro area has 20 million or more people and five distinct boroughs that have traditionally had separate sports teams, creating culture where on team is TheFranchise but others can kinda squeak by, not printing money but not breaking even. The GTA/Hamilton/SO area isn't as big nor does it have the history of the Dodgers/Giants(baseball)/Yankees/Mets where people are so regionalized they often won't root for "the city's team" if it's not in their borough.

 

[Kritter471]

These arguments are exactly what GB thought when he trumpeted expansion into the southern states. Size of city is just the starting point. Interest in the product is what matters so suggesting that teams move to regions where there ticket price is half of what it is in Canada to attract buyers and where Arena Football blows the doors off NHL hockey in the ratings hardly guarantees success.

Using your logic Phoenix should have been a slam dunk success, not a money loser every year of it's existence with one of the cheapest tickets in the league. The reality here is that a team in a reasonably sized city in SO would have no problem becoming one of the top 8 revenue teams in the NHL.

That's in no way reality. A team in SO would be, best case scenario, a Devils or an Islanders. Even their successes would be overshadowed by the Leafs' success or failure, and their corporate opportunity would be severely limited by the presence of the same team. It's about this specific marketplace. I think a team would have a better shot of long-term, high-level success in a town like Winnipeg.

Phoenix has had horrific problems with mismanagement from the very beginning while well managed non-traditional franchises (Stars, Ducks, Sharks, just from the Pacific division) do decent to very well financially depending on the season, and those owners are making all sorts of cash off arena/land/other deals that don't show up on the books of their teams. Well-run franchises in non-traditional cities are huge revenue boons to a league. The problem is several of the non-traditional franchises have been exceedingly poorly managed from the grass-roots level up.

 

[bbud]

I'm not talking about there not being hockey fans there. You're misunderstanding my point - I'm talking about the revenue there already being tapped by, in particular, the Leafs.

Hamiltonis in a marketplace with hockey advertisers already committed to a big team. It's just moving revenue and fans around and adding minimal amounts overall. Combine that with advertisers always being attracted to the team with the bigger fan base (which will always be the Leafs), and Hamilton I don't think will have the big-time corporate sponsorships any pro franchise needs. Buffalo struggles with this as it is. You think Molson, for a completely hypothetical example, will pay $4 million a season for prime commercial time during Hamilton games, their logo on the boards and good season tickets when they could pay $8 million to the Leafs but get 10 times the return because the Leafs have 20 times the fanbase? It doesn't make sense, and there's no reason to do both when a franchise is as omnipresent as the Leafs is.

It's like.... the DFW Metroplex could support another NFL team. Heck, Austin or San Antonio could support another NFL team some 160 and 200 miles away. But the vast majority of people there are already Cowboys fans, and Texas advertisers already have their money invested in the NFL. A team in Fort Worth (city of nearly a million in a metro area of 6 million) brings in minimal new revenue to the league, it just siphons it from another franchise. Same for Austin and, to a lesser extent, San Antonio. Houston works because it's 270 or so miles away and vastly different in terms of corporate structure and culture, but even the Texans don't bring near the ad revenue or gate revenue the Cowboys do. It's a question of TheFranchise sucking up all ad dollars with or without another team there and people already being blindly loyal to that team.

That's why I think, if you're going Canadian cities, Winnipeg is a better option. It doesn't have the huge looming beast of TheFranchise within 50 miles and directly in the broadcast region.

Before you bring up New York, that metro area has 20 million or more people and five distinct boroughs that have traditionally had separate sports teams, creating culture where on team is TheFranchise but others can kinda squeak by, not printing money but not breaking even. The GTA/Hamilton/SO area isn't as big nor does it have the history of the Dodgers/Giants(baseball)/Yankees/Mets where people are so regionalized they often won't root for "the city's team" if it's not in their borough.

A few points , comparing NFL - NHL is not possible NFL does so well on tv they can afford to have no fans show up and still survive so lets not use that one
Hockey is about as popular in Canada as NFL is in USA it owns our sports landscape
and as for hamilton and area it is huge untapped market which has been wanting NHL hockey for a very long time and will have no issues succeeding it has no real competition and corporate support is on JBs side now he has also built a very strong business in his own right and will draw others who like his success and want to be along for the ride i do think they would do well and i have been all through S ontario often , i will also put to you how i have seen the Cowboys play in dallas 3 times and Texas A&M also at home tell me how the NFL and big college succeed in same markets i watched aggies with what 70k in seats there if you are correct thats NFL money being lost or is there enough support for a lot of football in the region
As for Winnipeg well it would be nice to see but i am not so sure it has population its still 600-800 k range and not near as much corporate support as Hamilton would find so i think it would create another bad ending as of now , one day i hope that is possible im just not sure it is yet.
As for Leafs and the big franchise well fans there have had enough they cant buy tickets you wait to inherit or get a freinds giveaways and for that you get 40 yrs of losers i worked in Ont and i was told many would love a team in rival range who could fill a void , after all those points i do beleive it does not really matter GB hates Canada complete hatred so wont matter what we do

 

[Crazy_Ike]

I know where Balsillie is getting his inspiration from! He must be a fan of musicals.

...


Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle Dazzle 'em
Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate

Give 'em the old hocus pocus
Bead and feather 'em
How can they see with sequins in their eyes?

What if your hinges all are rusting?
What if, in fact, you're just disgusting?
Razzle dazzle 'em
And they;ll never catch wise!

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Give 'em a show that's so splendiferous
Row after row will crow vociferous

Give 'em the old flim flam flummox
Fool and fracture 'em
How can they hear the truth above the roar?

Throw 'em a fake and a finagle
They'll never know you're just a bagel,
Razzle dazzle 'em
And they'll beg you for more!

Give 'em the old double whammy
Daze and dizzy 'em
Back since the days of old Methuselah
Everyone loves the big bambooz-a-ler

Give 'em the old three ring circus
Stun and stagger 'em
When you're in trouble, go into your dance

Though you are stiffer than a girder
They'll let you get away with murder
Razzle dazzle 'em
And you've got a romance

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Show 'em the first rate sorceror you are

Long as you keep 'em way off balance
How can they spot you've got no talent
Razzle Dazzle 'em
Razzle Dazzle 'em
Razzle Dazzle 'em

And they'll make you a star!

 

[Bitterman]

I disagree that JB will eventually win this bid.

For argument's sake, let's assume that we follow the NHL's published steps for the bidding process (first an auction to keep the team in Phoenix, then a second option for relocation- pre-approval by the BoG for all bidders and locations in the second case).

Let's also concede (only for arguments sake) that no qualified bidder emerges in the first auction.

Now, we are about to proceed to the second auction that would allow relocation to approved locations from qualified bidders. The first step would be to establish the proper total for Glendale as a creditor due to the lease obviously being broken. This amount would affect all bids the same.

Here are the points in this potential time line in which I believe that JB would be disqualified and/or withdraw:

1) JB's application for franchise ownership could be disapproved by the league for those actions since 2006. My personal opinion is that the league would succeed in establishing an argument against JB.
2) JB's approved but Hamilton could be disapproved as a NHL market due to legitimately argued, and supported, reasons by the NHL (impact to Buffalo, perception of the league by partners, etc.).
3) Since every approved market will have a different relocation fee (see formula established by the court), and some markets may have indemnity (territory infringement) fees while some may not, I could see a bid from another market be significantly lower overall and still best satisfy (the most) creditors.

If it get's to the second auction, I fully expect to see Vegas (Bruckheimer) and Winnipeg enter the picture. I expect both to be approved locations by the league and neither would have to pay any territory infringement fees. Could potential owners in those locations win when their total out-of-pocket costs do not have to include those higher/additional fees? I think so.

Far from over, but I think JB's road just got exponentially tougher.


* Edited for clarity regarding Glendale.

Nowhere have I suggested that JB will eventually win his bid. Your initial argument is also flawed btw. Critical to anyone buying will be having safe outs from the Glendale lease if reasonable triggers cannot be met.

As for pre-approved locations I'm not sure how that would work since a team in SO would be worth significantly more than a team in LV, Portland and elsewhere. Any bidder from a SO market will be able to bid far more than say a team in LV or Portland. Unless of course, GB declares that no city in SO will be approved for relocation.

I also don't agree that JB can be rejected for his actions in 2006. The Judge alluded to his suitability as an owner so I'm not sure a rejection could be defensible in court.

The NHL cannot successfully argue that Hamilton is a damaging franchise since they offered Hamilton a chance at expansion in the past in spite of Buffalo's presence. There is also no overlap of TV broadcast rights, territory or value of those deals. There is no overlap on Corporate box buyers and tickets will be half the cost of any SO team.

LV may be vetted as a possible destination but if any SO city is allowed to bid there is just no way Winnipeg could win an auction. In fact, if the team can only move in 2-3 years there is time for any SO city to build an NHL arena which opens it up the possibilities to include places like Mississauga or Markham. In that scenario, would the Leafs prefer a team in Hamilton or Mississauga? Of course, that opens up the possible owners of a SO team to more than JB.