Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge

[Gnashville]

Rodier says that NHL hockey in Ontario is unique product, states that when lockout occured attendance did not increase in Ontario for all other levels of hockey, ( OHL AHL, Senior A) , says Leafs could charge anything they want and attendance would not diminish, competition law states that a 5% price change that doesn't affect attendance is the test, market is insatiable for NHL hockey leading to monopoly.

That could be said about Baseball in Boston, and St Louis or NFL in Dallas and Pittsburgh or NBA in Indianaoplis. That is not a monopoly since there are other pro sports options in all of those cities same as Toronto.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/06/16/kelley_bailing_on_a_decision/
Sportsnet's Kelley on ruling



http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/651381
Star's Nolan on Hamilton "what now"

 

[Proboscis]

That could be said about Baseball in Boston, and St Louis or NFL in Dallas and Pittsburgh or NBA in Indianaoplis. That is not a monopoly since there are other pro sports options in all of those cities same as Toronto.

I guess you have not seen recent attendance numbers for the Indiana Pacers.

 

[bleeney]

Bigger cities with less competition for hockey-specific ad dollars could produce a much greater payoff than a team in Hamilton. A successful team in Houston, as an example, would be much more profitable than a successful team in Hamilton because the advertisers in Houston won't see the team as a "second-tier" team to the Leafs like the advertisers in Southern Ontario would. Seattle is similar. Combine that with the vastly greater population size and "untapped" NHL fans (as opposed to drawing on people that are already NHL fans in SO), and you've got the biggest reasons why SunBelt markets and even cities like Winnipeg make more business sense than Hamilton. Gate is important, but gate is hugely reliant on big-time corporate buyers.

Again, a potential Hamilton franchise would be equivalent to the Devils. Technically its own market, but really part of a market that is already dominated in terms of fan base and corporate commitment to another team.

Are you crazy?

JB had to stop taking applications of private boxes (mostly from corporations) at 70 (or 80) when he was after the Preds. He had almost enough season ticket applications to fill the building within days. He already has some major corporations backing him on the Coyotes deal, including a brewery. Hmmm...beer and hockey...a natural partnership.

Advertising revenues would go through the roof. Before moving out of Toronto, I was an Argo season ticket holder. The rivalry between the Argos and Ticats was something else. The hostility between fans made the Leaf rivalries with Montreal, Ottawa and Buffalo look like nothing. This would be like reviving the old the Habs/Nords wars. Ratings for Toronto/Hamilton games would be off the charts.

As for Hamilton being a "second-tier" team, believe it or not, a lot of people take pride in being on the side of the little guy against the guys from the big city. Kinda like the way Brooklyn Dodger fans were proud not to be Yankee fans. There isn't anybody who lived through that era and doesn't look back at it as something magical.

And if you think the HSBC arena is rocking when the Leafs play there, could you imagine what it would be like if Hamilton was in town? It would be insane.

The NHL has a chance to do something special here. Given their track record it isn't surprising to see them once again doing the wrong thing.

 

[Death128]

Hmmm... Did the league approve Winnipeg moving to Quebec then to Phoenix (It was done to avoid paying taxes) and how would this have affected the judges decision (if it wasn't approved)?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Hmmm... Did the league approve Winnipeg moving to Quebec then to Phoenix (It was done to avoid paying taxes) and how would this have affected the judges decision (if it wasn't approved)?

Quebec is Colorado, Death

 

[LadyStanley]

Winnipeg ended up in Phoenix.
Quebec ended up in Denver.


(And Minnesota -> Dallas; Hartford -> Ralleigh/Carolina, Oakland -> Cleveland -> Minnesota; Colorado -> New Jersey; Atlanta -> Calgary. Think that's most of the "modern" moves.)

 

[Death128]

Winnipeg ended up in Phoenix.
Quebec ended up in Denver.


(And Minnesota -> Dallas; Hartford -> Ralleigh/Carolina, Oakland -> Cleveland -> Minnesota; Colorado -> New Jersey; Atlanta -> Calgary. Think that's most of the "modern" moves.)

To avoid paying taxes on the sale, Winnipeg Jets moved to the province of Quebec first (I don't know which city) then to Phoenix (Albeit within a day or so).

 

[billy blaze]

To avoid paying taxes on the sale, Winnipeg Jets moved to the province of Quebec first (I don't know which city) then to Phoenix (Albeit within a day or so).

known as the "Quebec Shuffle" this tax dodge was used by the principals of the Winnipeg Jets to avoid paying provincial tax on the sale of the hockey club

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/judge_puts_phoenix_situation_on_hold/

Kuklas Korner summarizes where things are after 6/15 ruling.

A dead team with no clear ownership that stays in Phoenix is bad for the league. The Coyotes are not going to draw fans, since the fans know the team will soon re-locate. There will be no investment in the team. There will be no clear plan to do anything with the franchise. They will be left to flounder at or near the bottom of the standings.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/6/16/910840/three-outcomes-remain-for-coyotes

Mirtle on the three possible outcomes

Really, we're looking at three possible outcomes, the same ones we started with:
1. Jim Balsillie somehow wins the right in court to own the team and relocate the franchise, likely for the 2010-11 season.
...
2. The NHL finds an owner or owners who want to operate the franchise in Phoenix for the long term.
...
3. The NHL finds an owner or owners who will own the team in Phoenix for the short term with the potential of relocating the franchise should it continue to struggle.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.xmhomeice.com/audio/09-06-16 Bill Daly NHL Deputy Commish.mp3

Daly on NHL Home Ice's Hockey This Morning 6/16 to discuss ruling (audio)

 

[popaclay]

I am not sure any owner would take the lease that that Glendale had with Moyes. If Glendale is judged to be the largest creditor then the only way out appears to be bankruptcy, perhaps even liquidation. The Goldwater institute appears to be watching Glendale very closely and will not allow much maneuvering to help out prospective owners.
The selling price might be be so low that it will trigger law suits from Moyes and the other creditors.
I am sure that the team will lose money again this coming year in Phoenix if it stays there, so all in all while a few thousand fans will be happy with the latest ruling it is still a mess for the NHL.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2009/06/balsillies_timetable_too_tight.html

Marek blog after the ruling

Strike three.

If this were a baseball game Jim Balsillie would be headed back to the dugout, but nobody believes the head of RIM won’t be back to take another swing at owning an NHL team.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/6/16/911314/a-few-more-words-from-the

Mirtle on Balsillie's team conference call this morning

Rodier was also asked if they would contemplate owning the team in Phoenix for the coming season.

"Playing another year in Glendale translates to incurring catastrophic losses," he said. "[Are we] committed to another year in Glendale? That's a tough question. On what terms [would we be committing]?"

He added that they had little problem keeping the team in Phoenix for a year if the NHL assumed the losses ("or profits") involved. Rodier also said his camp had not yet talked to the NHL about a relocation fee but that they would be in the future.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/JimGintonio/55571

AZ Republic blog

Infused with hope after a judge’s decision to keep the Coyotes in the Valley, team President Doug Moss is optimistic about the future.
“As the league said, they don’t give up on their franchises, they don’t give up on their markets,†he said. “I think that the next step is for the league to conduct an auction process and find and owner who wants to operate this team in Glendale and be a success.â€

 

[BruinsBtn]

known as the "Quebec Shuffle" this tax dodge was used by the principals of the Winnipeg Jets to avoid paying provincial tax on the sale of the hockey club

I never heard of that one. That's a double donkey punch to the people of Manitoba.

 

[Brodie]

I never heard of that one. That's a double donkey punch to the people of Manitoba.

It was apparently a major issue in Manitoba with all transfers:

http://www.ctf.ca/articles/News.asp?article_ID=111

 

[LadyStanley]

http://boards.sjsharks.com/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=1&showentry=274

Sharks TV analyst Drew Remenda blogs on Balsillie situation.

My hope is Mr. Bettman and Mr. Balsillie can work out their differences. Jim Balsillie is a passionate hockey fan who wants another team in Canada. He needs to change his approach when dealing with the exclusive NHL Owners group. Mr. Bettman needs to understand that hockey just doesn’t connect with some cities in the United States. Moving a suffering franchise where there isn’t a faithful fan base to a hockey mad area would strengthen the NHL even if Mr. Bettman feels it would weaken his vision of non- traditional markets embracing the game.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://coyotes.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=-6&id=43847
Video highlights of Coyotes president Moss press conference 6/15.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2...te-coyotes-and-their-mess-not-going-anywhere/

NY Times blogs on ruling

“The court did not approve either our approach or the N.H.L.’s,†echoed Balsillie spokesperson Bill Walker in a mass e-mail message (quoted in The Hamilton Spectator). “We still think there is enough time for the N.H.L. to approve Mr. Balsillie’s application and move the team to Hamilton by September. The court invited mediation on these issues and Mr. Balsillie is willing to participate in such mediation if the N.H.L. is also willing to do so.â€
...
But yesterday’s ruling, though it sustained the status quo, has not fixed this situation. The team will probably continue to drift competitively, with a number of good young players who need to mature, and is not likely to attract any significant free agents. They still will probably lose lots of money this year — and now it will be all the owners’ money, not Moyes’s. Having been dragged through bankruptcy court has done nothing to improve the club’s image or the attractiveness of the market for a potential future owner. It’s still a mess.

The difference is the league now can steer the efforts to clean the mess without fearing the club will be hijacked and deposited where it would infringe on the rights of two other clubs. And if they’re at all in tune with reality, the league should also begin the study that commissioner Gary Bettman has maintained it has yet to do, assessing the viability of placing another team in Southern Ontario.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabresnhl/story/705581.html

Tuesday night AP/CP story on Balsillie's perseverance and determination on getting NHL Hamilton franchise.

Rodier said Balsillie would either amend his bid or submit a new one, pending talks with Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes.

Moyes issued a statement Tuesday and continued to align himself with Balsillie, whose offer would return the most money to the embattled owner. Moyes noted that the judge left open revisiting the relocation issue.

"Now the most important thing for us to do is work towards an open and transparent sales process that will result in obtaining the most money for the team's creditors," Moyes said.
...
While the deadline has been erased, Balsillie insists the sale still can be completed and the team moved to Hamilton in time for next season.

 

[LadyStanley]

A few other interesting points from AP article

According to Balsillie, the city would have to come up with $20 million in concessions to satisfy Reinsdorf, who has not commented on the Coyotes issue.

Baum noted that the consent agreement signed by Moyes with the NHL requires that all home games be played in Glendale. The judge said that Balsillie would have to assume that portion of the agreement as part of the proposed purchase.

The buyer, Baum said, "can not assume only the benefits of a contract; rather the assumption is the entire agreement, benefits and burdens."

 

[LadyStanley]

Time for part VIII: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=19947591