Babcock

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Okay and obviously he finished last place because that team was garbage. It goes both ways.

I agree. I think regular season results are mostly impacted by the quality of roster, as well as goaltending and injury. Sure coaching does have a role, but I think it's pretty minor compared to the playoffs. in rare cases coaching can make a drastic difference in how a team performs (like with Vegas last year, or Bylsma/Johnston hurting the Penguins), but I don't think Babcock will fall into either category for us. I hope he can do a good job in the playoffs for us

 

[ToMaLe]

Nobody in their right mind believed that

hind sight is 20 20 isnt it bud. Fact is JVR, Bozak and the gang was considered a bubble playoff team before the season started. The only reason why you say that is Babcock coached them to a last overall place finish, nothing more nothing less.

 

[dangomon]

hind sight is 20 20 isnt it bud. Fact is JVR, Bozak and the gang was considered a bubble playoff team before the season started. The only reason why you say that is Babcock coached them to a last overall place finish, nothing more nothing less.

Do you remember the rest of that roster? It was absolutely brutal.

 

[Menzinger]

Who is the GM now? Look do you think Babcock wanted to Keep Marincin? I do not, yet here he is. That is an issue.

He probably didn’t want to keep Carrick either....

A GM can’t squeeze water from stone, if you have To grossly overpay for a D man (even a depth guy) it’s not worth it. Likely the reason why lou also wasn’t able to do much about the Leafs D situation

Edit: typo

 

[ToMaLe]

Do you remember the rest of that roster? It was absolutely brutal.

Kadri, Gardiner, Komarov, Phaneuf, Rielly.....wouldnt say absolutely brutal at all. Still the fact is they were considered a bubble playoff team, its right here man in my old hockey news. The so called hockey experts that played the game, coached the game and hockey analysis had them as a bubble playoff team. like i said hind sight has 20 20 vision.

 

[Buds17]

I think he's likely where he should be in the pecking order when it comes time to give credit for team success. OTOH, he might be too high on the list when it comes to dishing out blame. That's partly the lot of a coach. He's well paid (and there's a free agent-like element to that as other teams were in the running), but he can also be cast aside much easier than a player of similar stature can, as that probably requires a trade and another team to also want to make a change.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

hind sight is 20 20 isnt it bud. Fact is JVR, Bozak and the gang was considered a bubble playoff team before the season started. The only reason why you say that is Babcock coached them to a last overall place finish, nothing more nothing less.

The Hockey News projected us to finish 8th in our division. ESPN had them 7th in the Atlantic Division. Sports Illustrated had us finishing 8th in the Atlantic Division. TSN had us finishing 8th in the Atlantic. Sportsnet didn't give a hard standings prediction, but their tone was basically the same, bottom of the standings.

I don't know where you got this idea that the 2015-2016 Leafs were seen as a bubble playoff team, but that was never the case.

 

[ToMaLe]

The Hockey News projected us to finish 8th in our division. ESPN had them 7th in the Atlantic Division. Sports Illustrated had us finishing 8th in the Atlantic Division. TSN had us finishing 8th in the Atlantic. Sportsnet didn't give a hard standings prediction, but there tone was basically the same, bottom of the standings.

I don't know where you got this idea that the 2015-2016 Leafs were seen as a bubble playoff team, but that was never the case.

that is not what it says in my hockey news, it says in conference, 12 experts, 6 had them 8th, 4 had them 9th, 1 had them 10th and 1 at 11th.

 

[BertCorbeau]

hind sight is 20 20 isnt it bud. Fact is JVR, Bozak and the gang was considered a bubble playoff team before the season started. The only reason why you say that is Babcock coached them to a last overall place finish, nothing more nothing less.

No I say that because they were not a bubble team, that roster had many PTO’s signed as potential trade deadline candidates. That season was after the scorched earth article came out and the rebuild was officially declared.

That roster was bad through and through, and no where near a bubble team

 

[King Mapes]

I agree. I think regular season results are mostly impacted by the quality of roster, as well as goaltending and injury. Sure coaching does have a role, but I think it's pretty minor compared to the playoffs. in rare cases coaching can make a drastic difference in how a team performs (like with Vegas last year, or Bylsma/Johnston hurting the Penguins), but I don't think Babcock will fall into either category for us. I hope he can do a good job in the playoffs for us

I'd be lying if I said I disagreed. I do agree somewhat but playoffs is also which goalie gets hot at the right time, etc. Our issue last year was being in a division with 3 very good teams. Under the old format we would have had a favourable matchup but instead we get matched up against a team who finished better than we did. But every coach we have people complain and talk about how bad they were. Maurice, Wilson, Babcock.

Only coach who seemed respected was Quinn.

 

[Gabriel426]

Dubas is at fault as well. He has not provided the needed pieces to help us win.

We need at least one big D man who can play a physical game and we got stuck with Marincin. Not a player Babcock wants. Same on forward. Why is Gunny not on the team. He is eligible for waivers is why. He plays a physical game something we dearly miss.

Blaming solely Babcock is wrong. Dubas has a lot of blame as well.

As much as I hate to admit, I beleive Dubas, Shanny and Babs are really thinking Long term instead of let’s go all in and worry about stuff later.
Yes, they didn’t trade away JVR, Bozak and others and traded away 2 2nds but they signed JT and Zai for nothing and those 2 2nds were extras and they got at least one of them back last draft when they traded down.
To me, the fact that Marlies won and need to promote a few players to show rewards, as well as the big 3 have not sign is forcing Dubas and company to not commit to another 4-5mil contract. For example, if the big three were signed on July 1, and Dubas know for sure how much financial room he has for the next few years, pretty sure he would have either signed De Haan or made a trade for a solid Dman.

 

[Gabriel426]

The Hockey News projected us to finish 8th in our division. ESPN had them 7th in the Atlantic Division. Sports Illustrated had us finishing 8th in the Atlantic Division. TSN had us finishing 8th in the Atlantic. Sportsnet didn't give a hard standings prediction, but there tone was basically the same, bottom of the standings.

I don't know where you got this idea that the 2015-2016 Leafs were seen as a bubble playoff team, but that was never the case.

Pretty sure he misread it as being 8th in the Eastern Conf. Instead of 8th in the Atlantic.

 

[TakeTheBody]

I miss Pat Quinn.

You ain't seen nothing like the Mighty Quinn......

 

[King Mapes]

hind sight is 20 20 isnt it bud. Fact is JVR, Bozak and the gang was considered a bubble playoff team before the season started. The only reason why you say that is Babcock coached them to a last overall place finish, nothing more nothing less.

Who in their right mind thought that was a bubble team? They were destined for bottom 5

 

[King Mapes]

Kadri, Gardiner, Komarov, Phaneuf, Rielly.....wouldnt say absolutely brutal at all. Still the fact is they were considered a bubble playoff team, its right here man in my old hockey news. The so called hockey experts that played the game, coached the game and hockey analysis had them as a bubble playoff team. like i said hind sight has 20 20 vision.

The fact you list Komorov shows how bad they were. Rielly was very young, Dion and Gardner? Really? Kadri had a career high of 50 points at that time. You listing those guys shows how bad they truely were.

 

[Mr Hockey]

that is not what it says in my hockey news, it says in conference, 12 experts, 6 had them 8th, 4 had them 9th, 1 had them 10th and 1 at 11th.

Management started dismantling the team, starting with Kessel

 

[Knies iT]

Teams are trapping the Leafs. This is the only way to play Toronto without a blow-out. It's forcing them to play dump and chase. Fans perceive this as Babcock being "out-dated" and forcing a misfit system on the team.

The reality is that most teams in the league will implement this strategy against Toronto and the only real alternative to it is a chip and chase. This is why too much homogeneity in a forward group is problematic and we're seeing it first hand. Ottawa was the first team in recent years to fully adopt this approach with Boucher and it's a big reason why they have held their own against us lately, despite what the line-up sheet would have you believe.

The solution is injecting the right kind of players in to the line-up, much like Washington has done to supplement their core (e.g. adding Oshie, promoting Wilson, etc.). No, a 39 year old Marleau is not going to be the puck hound on the heavily shadowed/matched Matthews line. No, Brown should not be playing 20+ minutes. Management needs to find pieces that can work in the top six, whether internally or externally. Could that be Korshkov next season? Rick Nash via FA this season? Or a trade for a guy like Josh Anderson? Whichever route, the player needs to bring diversity to the group and must be skilled & fast enough to hang in the top 6 so that the team can function in the inevitable trap that is going to happen come playoffs when PP's dry up. Tyler Ennis is not that guy.

 

[DarkKnight]

I miss Pat Quinn.

You ain't seen nothing like the Mighty Quinn......

Another guy who was criticized relentlessly. He had no system, we played too loose, you'll never win like that, he was a dinosaur, he was too stubborn, he had his favourites, oh the memories! Rinse, repeat...

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Seeing how we've only gotten quicker over the summer I don't see how that's really relevant. Bozak, Leo, JVR, Martin, Polak are all out and replaced with faster options. Hainsey and Marleau are a bit slower but how does that suddenly make us slow?

Point being that Babcock's style/systems have changed and they don't play the same uptempo style they used to.
Babcock would be saying it is playing the "right way", playing less risky to keep shits against down.

 

[Gabriel426]

I miss Pat Quinn.

You ain't seen nothing like the Mighty Quinn......

I still remember that incident in the elevator. I think Domi was being questioned from the league and Quinn was with Domi in the elevator and a reporter followed them in and Quinn just threw him out. That’s classic

 

[Mr Hockey]

Point being that Babcock's style/systems have changed and they don't play the same uptempo style they used to.
Babcock would be saying it is playing the "right way", playing less risky to keep ****s against down.

LA coach said after the game, that the Leafs play real fast with the puck. Other teams try and counter that advantage by slowing them down.

 

[PanniniClaus]

I did not like the response Toronto had Saturday to steer/contain hockey. They went with a "zero" forecheck policy or a left wing lock which resulted in a brutal game of hockey to watch and a loss to boot. The leafs need to play on the front foot no matter what style they are playing against. I assume Babs saw that Saturday.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Tavares is making 11 mil, he needs to figure out how to create room for himself out there, and get the puck when the other teams play tight. Only so much Babs can do.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'd be lying if I said I disagreed. I do agree somewhat but playoffs is also which goalie gets hot at the right time, etc. Our issue last year was being in a division with 3 very good teams. Under the old format we would have had a favourable matchup but instead we get matched up against a team who finished better than we did. But every coach we have people complain and talk about how bad they were. Maurice, Wilson, Babcock.

Only coach who seemed respected was Quinn.

no. we would have Pittsburgh. so not that favourable

 

[Tak7]

hind sight is 20 20 isnt it bud. Fact is JVR, Bozak and the gang was considered a bubble playoff team before the season started. The only reason why you say that is Babcock coached them to a last overall place finish, nothing more nothing less.

The great thing about hindsight?

I can remember when the team you called a "bubble team" was actually labelled a bottom feeder before the puck was even dropped.