Babcock IV (undermining the GM and depth issues?)

[Gary Nylund]

I haven't read the whole thread... But haven't seen any explanations.

It's a some question that shouldn't require much work answering, lol. All I'm asking is how Babcock took a shot at Dubas....

Instead of answering the question, your deflecting it.

Instead of answering the question, your deflecting it.

I didn't ask you if you've read the entire thread, I'm asking you if you've seen the quotes and read a bit about how other people have interpreted them as taking shots at Dubas.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[MyBudJT]

Instead of answering the question, your deflecting it.

I didn't ask you if you've read the entire thread, I'm asking you if you've seen the quotes and read a bit about how other people have interpreted them as taking shots at Dubas.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

I didnt deflect anything and answered your question. You asked:

Gary Nylund said: ↑

It's been explained many times elsewhere, have not you seen the explanations or do you disagree with them​

I responded and said I did not see them. How did I deflect your question?

YYES. I have read Babcock's quotes and dont think he is taking a shot at Dubas. Which is why I'm asking YOU why YOU think he is taking shots at him. It shouldn't be a hard question to answer... But you don't seem to want to.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Is it as simple as Babs wants players that look like they try harder? How could you have this talented of a forward corps and complain?

 

[freewilly]

When Babcock signed in Toronto Lou was the General Manager and it's likely Babcock has great respect for Lou . Now Lou is gone maybe Babcock doesn't have much interest in being the coach for the Leafs and a General Manager like Dubas who he might not respect at all . Wouldn't be surprising after the season during the summer if Babcock resigned as the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs . Then signing to coach another team before the season starts .

Actually this would be wildly surprising. You live in a fantasy world.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I didnt deflect anything and answered your question. You asked:

Gary Nylund said: ↑

It's been explained many times elsewhere, have not you seen the explanations or do you disagree with them​

I responded and said I did not see them. How did I deflect your question?

YYES. I have read Babcock's quotes and dont think he is taking a shot at Dubas. Which is why I'm asking YOU why YOU think he is taking shots at him. It shouldn't be a hard question to answer... But you don't seem to want to.

Wow, you seem really upset. I'll tell you what, google is your friend, I'm sure you're a smart guy and you know what google is and how to use it. There are explanations if you care to take a minute and look for them but don't ask me to do your research for you. Since I'm such a helpful guy, I will give you this link:

TRAIK-EOTOMY: Are Leafs’ Dubas and Babcock on the outs?

Note this tidbit from the article:
So it’s not troubling if Babcock and Dubas are not be best of buddies. What is troubling is that with the playoffs only weeks away, they are now airing their dirty laundry for everyone to see.
A lot of this is on Babcock, who has repeatedly taken shots at management for not filling the holes that have been popping up in the roster ever since the team basically stood pat at the trade deadline.

There are many such stories if you only care to look and from what I can tell, most people think it's pretty obvious that our coach is taking shots at Dubas.

 

[MyBudJT]

I'll extend the invite to any poster... How did Babcock take a shot at Dubas?

 

[MyBudJT]

Wow, you seem really upset. I'll tell you what, google is your friend, I'm sure you're a smart guy and you know what google is and how to use it. There are explanations if you care to take a minute and look for them but don't ask me to do your research for you. Since I'm such a helpful guy, I will give you this link:

TRAIK-EOTOMY: Are Leafs’ Dubas and Babcock on the outs?

Note this tidbit from the article:
So it’s not troubling if Babcock and Dubas are not be best of buddies. What is troubling is that with the playoffs only weeks away, they are now airing their dirty laundry for everyone to see.
A lot of this is on Babcock, who has repeatedly taken shots at management for not filling the holes that have been popping up in the roster ever since the team basically stood pat at the trade deadline.

There are many such stories if you only care to look and from what I can tell, most people think it's pretty obvious that our coach is taking shots at Dubas.

Lol, I'm not upset at all... you seemsto be thoughh.

the article you posted litterally started with:

"I don’t know if there’s friction between Maple Leafs head coach Mike Babcock and general manager Kyle Dubas."

It's nothing but baseless speculation.

In no way has Babcock put any blame on Dubas for our 'lack of depth'...

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'll extend the invite to any poster... How did Babcock take a shot at Dubas?

Well, if he absolves himself of all responsibility for utilizing the depth, then a comment criticizing it can only indicate that Dubas hasn't done a good enough job to acquire such.

Personally I feel like if you are given the reigning AHL champions, along with some of the by-the-minute most effective fourth liners in the league, and don't get good results out of them, then you shouldn't go complain about it in the media. You should probably sit quiet and hope nobody notices.

 

[zeke]

Wait, then what's this post about?

The Leafs play more minutes than their Tampa Bay counterparts.

well, no.

1.the Leafs play very similar minutes as their Tampa Bay counterparts, despite the fact that the leafs have been involved in many more close games than Tampa has, and many more games in which they were trailing than tampa has.

Rielly 22:58 --- Hedman 22:50
Gardiner 21:12 - McDonagh 21:56
Muzzin 20:24 - Stralman 20:30

Marner 19:40 - Kucherov 19:46
Tavares 19:04 - Point 18:46
Matthews 18:25 - Stamkos 18:15

very, very similar....despite the factors mentioned above.

and if you have any doubt about how game situation affects their ice time even under the same coach, it's easy to just look at last year, when they weren't blowing out teams near as often:

Hedman 25:51
Stralman 21:29
McDonagh 21:17

Kucherov 19:49
Point 19:37
Stamkos 18:45

more ice time across the board.

 

[Bomber0104]

I honestly think these guys are laughing together behind closed doors on how idiotic the media is and some of the fans as well. Everything is being analyzed to the tiniest detail and so you basically can't say anything without there being some sort of potential controversy to it. This isn't anything new either..Back in the day of Wilson, Carlyle, etc, fans would start whining about those guys throwing players like Kadri under the bus..It was made as a huge deal..But then again the times we're living in today sensitive types are more and more so it's not really that surprising.

Wouldn't surprise me.

But God bless some of the members of our fanbase for not just reading and/or listening to the media speculation, but totally losing their minds over it as we see here.

That type of fan devotion probably keeps an extra 20 sports-media folk employed.

 

[Myopic]

Lou wasn't the GM. Dubas hired Babcock... (With Hunter and Shannahan)

It was 100% Shanahan who hired Babs. It's ridiculous to think Dubas had any part of it. Shanahan has had a close relationship with Lou since his playing days. If it wasn't for Shanny I don't think Lou would have ever been a GM with any team other than NJ again.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Lol, I'm not upset at all... you seemsto be thoughh.

the article you posted litterally started with:

"I don’t know if there’s friction between Maple Leafs head coach Mike Babcock and general manager Kyle Dubas."

It's nothing but baseless speculation.

In no way has Babcock put any blame on Dubas for our 'lack of depth'...

I think we all know your position on it. Others can have different viewpoints

 

[Bomber0104]

Well, if he absolves himself of all responsibility for utilizing the depth, then a comment criticizing it can only indicate that Dubas hasn't done a good enough job to acquire such.

Personally I feel like if you are given the reigning AHL champions, along with some of the by-the-minute most effective fourth liners in the league, and don't get good results out of them, then you shouldn't go complain about it in the media. You should probably sit quiet and hope nobody notices.

"Reigning AHL champions" is your way of passing off Marincin, Ozhiganov, Holl, etc. as competent NHL defenders.

That's truly next-level spin!

 

[Bomber0104]

I could give a crap what the media says. You don't come out and complain about your depth, and having to overplay players to the media.

Ask Fehr what happens when you speak up about anything to do with babcock's decisions

"Come out and complain"

The media came out and asked Babcock the questions and he answered. Not the other way around.

Imagine if Tortorella was coaching this team and you heard some of the stuff he said. People's heads would literally explode.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Wouldn't surprise me.

But God bless some of the members of our fanbase for not just reading and/or listening to the media speculation, but totally losing their minds over it as we see here.

That type of fan devotion probably keeps an extra 20 sports-media folk employed.

I could give a crap what the media says. You don't come out and complain about your depth, and having to overplay players to the media.

Ask Fehr what happens when you speak up about anything to do with babcock's decisions

Get off the high horse

 

[Nithoniniel]

"Reigning AHL champions" is your way of passing off Marincin, Ozhiganov, Holl, etc. as competent NHL defenders.

That's truly next-level spin!

No. I'm saying that Babcock gets great AHL players and make them look weak at the NHL level. Meanwhile, someone like Cassidy gets guys who are barely competent at the AHL level, and he makes them look comfortable when they are up with the Bruins. Everybody gets AHL players as depth.

I don't get why people around here go out of their way to misunderstand each other.

 

[ShaneFalco]

"Come out and complain"

The media came out and asked Babcock the questions and he answered. Not the other way around.

Imagine if Tortorella was coaching this team and you heard some of the stuff he said. People's heads would literally explode.

You know what you get with Torts. And I don't think he'd take shots at his GM. If he did, he'd be out of line too

 

[MyBudJT]

Well, if he absolves himself of all responsibility for utilizing the depth, then a comment criticizing it can only indicate that Dubas hasn't done a good enough job to acquire such.

Personally I feel like if you are given the reigning AHL champions, along with some of the by-the-minute most effective fourth liners in the league, and don't get good results out of them, then you shouldn't go complain about it in the media. You should probably sit quiet and hope nobody notices.

Thank you for actually answering the question, lol.

The thing is, Babcock has always addressed depth as being a need. This isn't the first time he has said something of this ilk... so, I think people are really micro analyzing the quote. I don't think he was throwing anyone under a bus. I understand how the quote could be perceived as Babcock dissolving blame... However I don't think he is.... If someone were to ask him if he has flaws, I'm sure he would conceed he does.

This is the same Babcock we are talking about that has recently said "I just know in life when you own everything yourself, so the way I look at it, when the team isn't playing well, it's my fault..." And he also didn't make any excuses when our leafs players were sick, saying of youre in the game playing, you're ready to go....

I just think people are really over analyze ng his quotes to form their own story.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lol, I'm not upset at all... you seemsto be thoughh.

the article you posted litterally started with:

"I don’t know if there’s friction between Maple Leafs head coach Mike Babcock and general manager Kyle Dubas."

LOL. Are you ignoring this part because you don't agree with it? Is that how you form your opinions, by reading articles, quoting the parts you agree with and ignoring the parts that suggest you're way off?

What is troubling is that with the playoffs only weeks away, they are now airing their dirty laundry for everyone to see.
A lot of this is on Babcock, who has repeatedly taken shots at management for not filling the holes that have been popping up in the roster ever since the team basically stood pat at the trade deadline.

It's nothing but baseless speculation.

In no way has Babcock put any blame on Dubas for our 'lack of depth'...

This is your opinion and that's fine. The opinion of many others is that this "speculation" is everything but baseless and absolutely Babcock is blaming Dubas. It seems so obvious too, I'm surprised that there are people who don't get that. On the other hand, I'm re-assured by the fact that there doesn't seem to be many of you.

Well, if he absolves himself of all responsibility for utilizing the depth, then a comment criticizing it can only indicate that Dubas hasn't done a good enough job to acquire such.

Personally I feel like if you are given the reigning AHL champions, along with some of the by-the-minute most effective fourth liners in the league, and don't get good results out of them, then you shouldn't go complain about it in the media. You should probably sit quiet and hope nobody notices.

 

[ACC1224]

What does Babcock hope to achieve by "taking shots at Dubas"?

 

[Bomber0104]

No. I'm saying that Babcock gets great AHL players and make them look weak at the NHL level.

Sorry, I forgot the part where success in the AHL guarantees you success as a rookie in the NHL? Calder champions are always littered with NHL cast-aways or players who never again reach the NHL.

But you know this and at this point are pretty much going to say anything. Christian Hanson was a heck of a Marlie and I bet you'd fault Babcock for "making him look weak"

Meanwhile, someone like Cassidy gets guys who are barely competent at the AHL level, and he makes them look comfortable when they are up with the Bruisn. Everybody gets AHL players as depth.

Probably because he's getting something better than undrafted international players / career AHL-NHL tweeners playing their first few NHL games..

I don't get why people around here go out of their way to misunderstand each other.

Likewise I don't get why someone like you goes around deliberately spreading BS.

 

[MyBudJT]

It was 100% Shanahan who hired Babs. It's ridiculous to think Dubas had any part of it. Shanahan has had a close relationship with Lou since his playing days. If it wasn't for Shanny I don't think Lou would have ever been a GM with any team other than NJ again.

Well technically, Shannahan makes all of our decisions...

But before hiring Babcock, Shannahan stated

"If I feel that right person is available and of Mark [hunter] and Kyle [dubas] feel that the right person is available and we get a fantastic coach, I don't think it diminishes a general manager's interest in coming to Toronto"

Dubas absolutely had a say in hiring Babcock....

 

[egd27]

It's a simple question...

Babcock said, "You’re supposed to build the best program you can, so you… don’t miss people. If you have enough, you don’t miss a beat and you just keep going. There’s other teams that have done a better job when different players are out than we have in keeping on going. That just tells you what state we’re at, and you just gotta keep adding better players.”

Interpretation #1 - Dubas is not doing a good job acquiring assets, it's his fault we're not playing well

Interpretation #2 - The "building" isn't done. In order for the Leafs to be to be a truly elite organization they have to keep adding better players

Take you your pick

 

[MyBudJT]

LOL. Are you ignoring this part because you don't agree with it? Is that how you form your opinions, by reading articles, quoting the parts you agree with and ignoring the parts that suggest you're way off?

What is troubling is that with the playoffs only weeks away, they are now airing their dirty laundry for everyone to see.
A lot of this is on Babcock, who has repeatedly taken shots at management for not filling the holes that have been popping up in the roster ever since the team basically stood pat at the trade deadline.



This is your opinion and that's fine. The opinion of many others is that this "speculation" is everything but baseless and absolutely Babcock is blaming Dubas. It seems so obvious too, I'm surprised that there are people who don't get that. On the other hand, I'm re-assured by the fact that there doesn't seem to be many of you.

Lol, I'll let you calm down now. I just don't know how you expect me to take an article seriously when he clearly states he doesn't know if anything is going on ..

 

[Nithoniniel]

Thank you for actually answering the question, lol.

The thing is, Babcock has always addressed depth as being a need. This isn't the first time he has said something of this ilk... so, I think people are really micro analyzing the quote. I don't think he was throwing anyone under a bus. I understand how the quote could be perceived as Babcock dissolving blame... However I don't think he is.... If someone were to ask him if he has flaws, I'm sure he would conceed he does.

This is the same Babcock we are talking about that has recently said "I just know in life when you own everything yourself, so the way I look at it, when the team isn't playing well, it's my fault..." And he also didn't make any excuses when our leafs players were sick, saying of youre in the game playing, you're ready to go....

I just think people are really over analyze ng his quotes to form their own story.

That's probably true. There's a lot of anti-Babcock sentiments right now, and that probably makes it easy to hold every quote against him. I'm probably as guilty of that as anyone. With that said, I still don't like the quote, but I think @egd27 is probably right with this:

Interpretation #2 - The "building" isn't done. In order for the Leafs to be to be a truly elite organization they have to keep adding better players

Sorry, I forgot the part where success in the AHL guarantees you success as a rookie in the NHL?

What I'm saying is this:

Depth players are bad.
Great AHL players are still better than bad AHL players.
If you get crappy results from great AHL players, you do a worse job than someone getting decent results from bad AHL players.
In that case, you should perhaps not complain about the hand you were dealt.

If you want to call that BS then be my guest.

Edit: Man, this site loves auto-adding stuff.