Babcock IV (undermining the GM and depth issues?)

[MarnerElite]

Maurice is a solid fine coach. Normal distribution. His teams play well. All those leafs teams he had were solid possession teams, sabotaged by horrendous goaltending and a lack of elite scoring talent.



most overrated goalie of all time. the truth was exposed when he left and went to detroit, and sucked there, while we upgraded with belfour for cheaper.



Quinn preached offensive, puck-moving hockey way back when the rest of the league was playing nothing but the trap. He was amazing.

You do realize that even with "normal distribution" as you point to Maurice, we've mostly dominated the Jets(and have a good record against them). So what does that matter then? Most people agree that Jets are fairly close to us in terms of depth and overall team makeup. What then? Why is the better Maurice not able to beat Bacock' team?

 

[MyBudJT]

I don't feel like spending the time searching the web for the exact quotes and explaining how many others in addition to myself have interpreted them as being shots at Dubas. This has all been covered here and elsewhere at length, if you missed it then do some searching on your own, if you've read it and don't agree that's fine too, we're all entitled to our opinions.

So you're telling me you can't explain how Babcock took a shot at Dubas. Okay, I see ... It really shouldn't be a tough question to answer.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't feel like spending the time searching the web for the exact quotes and explaining how many others in addition to myself have interpreted them as being shots at Dubas. This has all been covered here and elsewhere at length, if you missed it then do some searching on your own, if you've read it and don't agree that's fine too, we're all entitled to our opinions.

He didn't come right out and say "This is on Dubas"
Geez even Burke said it was insubordination and would have never happened with Lou.

 

[MyBudJT]

I guess anything's possible but I'll go with Occam's razor here myself.

Occam's razor wouldnt look into Babcock's comments as deep as you're looking into it.

All Babcock said is that we need more depth. He in no way blamed Dubas for the lack of Depth. Occam's razor would suggest there is no issue here...

 

[zeke]

You do realize that even with "normal distribution" as you point to Maurice, we've mostly dominated the Jets(and have a good record against them). So what does that matter then? Most people agree that Jets are fairly close to us in terms of depth and overall team makeup. What then? Why is the better Maurice not able to beat Bacock' team?

Leafs have better players from the top to the bottom of the lineup.

Don't let hfboards bias tell you different.

the only reason people think its close is that their top players get way more ice time to pile up points than ours do.

 

[ShaneFalco]

So you're telling me you can't explain how Babcock took a shot at Dubas. Okay, I see ... It really shouldn't be a tough question to answer.

it's been posted in this thread several times, once by me, you just choose to ignore "because it doesn't fit your narrative"

 

[MyBudJT]

it's been posted in this thread several times, once by me, you just choose to ignore "because it doesn't fit your narrative"

I haven't seen the post, please enlighten me... Again, it shouldn't be a difficult question to answer.

 

[ACC1224]

So you're telling me you can't explain how Babcock took a shot at Dubas. Okay, I see ... It really shouldn't be a tough question to answer.

Seems one of those things where people are hearing what they want to hear. I'm guessing those who dislike Babcock/love Dubas are taking it that way?

I wouldn't put it past Babcock but it didn't even occur to me that he was 'taking shots at Dubas' until I read that thought here.
Seemed he was just telling the truth, hard to disagree with what he said.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I haven't seen the post, please enlighten me... Again, it shouldn't be a difficult question to answer.

Not going to spend the time either. Go look on Twitter, listen to Leaf's lunch, go to any sports page, scroll back in this thread...... it's been everywhere you're just playing games

 

[LeafGrief]

the Tampa example is perfect, really.

Just check out the difference in their ice time in actual close games - in tight games, their skill players play more and more and more, while in the leafs' tight games, its the hymans and hainseys that play more and more. Just so happens that the botls have been playing in far fewer close games.

I'll try to find the breakdown for you becuase it's hilarious. (someone else put it together, i'll try and find it).

Wait, then what's this post about?

yep. while every other teams get the benefit of playing their elite players more minutes no matter what, the leafs have to play by different rules, and not give their players the same kind of minutes unless they outwork everyone every shift.

The Leafs play more minutes than their Tampa Bay counterparts

The Leafs breakdown is very simply dependent on defending and chasing leads. When the Leafs are defending a lead, even if it's close, they go with the Hainseys and the Hymans because they are the trusted defensive players. When the Leafs are chasing a lead like they were in Nashville, the top 4 forwards were Marner, Tavares, Matthews, and Nylander (in that order) and Morgan Rielly played 24:30. Last night wasn't nearly as close and Marner played 22:30, Rielly played 25:25.

If you're frustrated that the Leafs are chosing to defend leads instead of looking to extend them, then sure I'm with you there. But your statements about how the Leafs don't get enough minutes compared to their counterparts is simply false. Babcock rides the top guys when the Leafs are chasing games and rides the defenders when they're winning. Because the Leafs aren't chasing many games, the top guys don't get ridden very often, and despite all that, they actually play more minutes than the big guns on the top2 teams in the league.

Please do find that breakdown, I would be very interested in reading it.

 

[MyBudJT]

Seems one of those things where people are hearing what they want to hear. I'm guessing those who dislike Babcock/love Dubas are taking it that way?

I wouldn't put it past Babcock but it didn't even occur to me that he was 'taking shots at Dubas' until I read that thought here.
Seemed he was just telling the truth, hard to disagree with what he said.

Also, it's not like it's the first time he has said something like this either... Lol

 

[MyBudJT]

Not going to spend the time either. Go look on Twitter, listen to Leaf's lunch, go to any sports page, scroll back in this thread...... it's been everywhere you're just playing games

So you're saying you can't explain how he took a shot at Dubas. Got it.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

read this is another forum, bang on:

This team is not built to try to grind out 2-1 wins against the Nashville Predators. This team's strength is skill and speed, and coming at the opponent in waves, rolling 3 talented lines out (even 4 if you want to include Moore Petan Brown as a 4th line) and forcing the other team to match us. When we spend more time trying to shut down our opposition than we do trying to score, we're sunk. I'm not saying ignore the defensive side of the game. I'm just saying that as far as philosophy/strategy goes we need to be an attacking team, not a defending one.

I agree to an extent, but there is I think a happy median there. I have my main issue being the breakout and zone entries as the big problem for this team more than the D-zone coverage. If you miss a stretch pass to your forward that is standing at the other teams blue line..you put a lot of pressure on your D to handle the odd man rush coming back at you. The way they have been playing the last 2 games with short crisp passes is working much better IMHO. The zone entries with the puck is much more suited to our skill players than chipping it in and trying to recover the puck with smaller forwards.

Don't forget that the Preds shut us out in the last game too. So we were playing our run and gun hockey with 0 goals to show for it last time. I think taking a better balanced approach to offense will lead to better defense in the long run. It doesn't have to be 1995 Devils hockey to be competent defensively.

I do agree that we should be rolling 3 lines out the door instead of trying to line match. Our road record seems to validate that and I don't understand why he does it at home considering the success we have on the road.

 

[Habs10025]

When Babcock signed in Toronto Lou was the General Manager and it's likely Babcock has great respect for Lou . Now Lou is gone maybe Babcock doesn't have much interest in being the coach for the Leafs and a General Manager like Dubas who he might not respect at all . Wouldn't be surprising after the season during the summer if Babcock resigned as the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs . Then signing to coach another team before the season starts .

 

[MarnerElite]

Leafs have better players from the top to the bottom of the lineup.

Don't let hfboards bias tell you different.

the only reason people think its close is that their top players get way more ice time to pile up points than ours do.

We mostly agree on this but still Maurice shouldn't be so outcoached when playing against us(we really do well against the Jets). I think our top guys are better than their top guys(so Matthews+Marner+JT > Laine, Scheifele, Wheeler..But in terms of depth we are pretty close, with them having slight edge maybe?..Some of their guys like Connor, Ehlers, etc are very good as depth players. I can't say for sure but just based on their play(forget about impressive numbers they have) i'd probably take them over guys like Kappy and Johnsson, etc..basically any of our depth guys. So our top guys are better than theirs but they make it closer with their depth guys having slight edge over our depth..Although i didn't include Willy in there so it probably does even out more.

 

[MyBudJT]

When Babcock signed in Toronto Lou was the General Manager and it's likely Babcock has great respect for Lou . Now Lou is gone maybe Babcock doesn't have much interest in being the coach for the Leafs and a General Manager like Dubas who he might not respect at all . Wouldn't be surprising after the season during the summer if Babcock resigned as the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs . Then signing to coach another team before the season starts .

Lou wasn't the GM. Dubas hired Babcock... (With Hunter and Shannahan)

 

[ShaneFalco]

So you're saying you can't explain how he took a shot at Dubas. Got it.

 

[diceman934]

He didn't come right out and say "This is on Dubas"
Geez even Burke said it was insubordination and would have never happened with Lou.

Would Lou Toss his coach under the bus? It cuts both ways here. This has been going on since last summer. Does anyone on here really think that Babcock wanted to go to visit the Mathews after the season just ended last year with his tail tucked firmly between his legs?

If people are looking to blame anyone it should start and end with Shanny at this point. Two adults acting like children neither is better then the other.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So you're telling me you can't explain how Babcock took a shot at Dubas. Okay, I see ... It really shouldn't be a tough question to answer.

It's been explained many times elsewhere, have not you seen the explanations or do you disagree with them?

Now that's a very simple yes or no question, perhaps you could answer that before asking me to spend time digging up material most people are already familiar with?

 

[MyBudJT]

It's a simple question...

 

[diceman934]

Lou wasn't the GM. Dubas hired Babcock... (With Hunter and Shannahan)

Shanny hired Babcock not Dubas or Hunter.

 

[MyBudJT]

It's been explained many times elsewhere, have not you seen the explanations or do you disagree with them?

Now that's a very simple yes or no question, perhaps you could answer that before asking me to spend time digging up material most people are already familiar with?

I haven't read the whole thread... But haven't seen any explanations.

It's a simple question that shouldn't require much work answering, lol. All I'm asking is how Babcock took a shot at Dubas....

Instead of answering the question, your deflecting it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Would Lou Toss his coach under the bus? It cuts both ways here. This has been going on since last summer. Does anyone on here really think that Babcock wanted to go to visit the Mathews after the season just ended last year with his tail tucked firmly between his legs?

If people are looking to blame anyone it should start and end with Shanny at this point. Two adults acting like children neither is better then the other.

I don't know what went on there (obviously) but considering Babcock's stature, his contract and his ego, I find it hard to believe that he went there under orders that he didn't wish to follow. My guess is that he went because he wanted to go.

 

[MyBudJT]

Shanny hired Babcock not Dubas or Hunter.

Dubas was in the organization and interim GM if I recall correctly, and you'd be kidding yourself if you think he had no role to play.

 

[ShaneFalco]

wow look at that - scroll back a few pages
Obviously you'll spin it to a pro-Babcock, there's nothing to see here excuse. Which is fine.
I think he's being a whiner and he's out of line.......

You have a great roster, yes there are some injuries right now. Deal with it - you're the highest paid coach in the league and have the same team issues from 3 years ago. The PP for instance, absolutely inexcusable. But he'll continue to point fingers elsewhere.....

Oh Muzzin is far from perfect but.....
If our GM can help us at the deadline.......
We don't have the depth others do......
Other teams don't have to overplay guys.....


Imagine, any other Leaf coach whining about the quality of players if he had Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly, Kadri, Muzzin Gardiner and Andersen to work with.