Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[henchman21]

Big contracts for RFA defensemen just don't happen unless they are ultra elite. The Jones deal is further proof of that.

 

[tucker3434]

Can't wait till we sign MacKinnon to two years $6m AAV...

 

[Avs44]

Look at that. You give a young player BEFORE he's fully proven himself a long term deal, and you'll probably get a steal. But hey, let's just bridge everyone.

 

[henchman21]

MacKinnon can't be forced to sign a deal. The market says about 5.75-6.5m per is the range for MacK on a 5-8 year deal. If MacK is unwilling to do that, the Avs can't force him right now. Maybe in 2+ months they can force that deal, but not when there is this much time before the season.

No bridge deal will be for $6m.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Wow none of the defenders are helping Barrie out with their contracts lol.

 

[Avs44]

Wow none of the defenders are helping Barrie out with their contracts lol.

Barrie doesn't care. Jones hasn't proven half of what Barrie has. Jones has a career high of 27 points, Barrie has been on pace to break 50 twice. These players are no longer comparables for Barrie.

 

[IceRat]

Barrie doesn't care. Jones hasn't proven half of what Barrie has. Jones has a career high of 27 points, Barrie has been on pace to break 50 twice. These players are no longer comparables for Barrie.

Jones actually is capable of playing defense ... you know the name for the position he plays
Barrie, not so much

 

[henchman21]

Barrie doesn't care. Jones hasn't proven half of what Barrie has. Jones has a career high of 27 points, Barrie has been on pace to break 50 twice. These players are no longer comparables for Barrie.

Barrie hasn't proven he is a legit top pairing defensemen that can carry defense either. It works both ways. Jones proved he is a 25-28 minute defensemen this past season.

Barrie has no case in arbitration that gets him a big number.

 

[Freudian]

MacKinnon can't be forced to sign a deal. The market says about 5.75-6.5m per is the range for MacK on a 5-8 year deal. If MacK is unwilling to do that, the Avs can't force him right now. Maybe in 2+ months they can force that deal, but not when there is this much time before the season.

No bridge deal will be for $6m.

Avs wouldn't know. They haven't really started negotiating with him.

 

[Avs44]

Jones actually is capable of playing defense ... you know the name for the position he plays
Barrie, not so much

Watch Jones play? Potential is there, Barrie is comfortably better right now.

 

[henchman21]

Avs wouldn't know. They haven't really started negotiating with him.

This has been gone through... they have.

Watch Jones play? Potential is there, Barrie is comfortably better right now.

No he isn't. Jones is clearly the better defensemen... not even sure if it is even close. Jones would be the best defensemen on the Avs right now.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Watch Jones play? Potential is there, Barrie is comfortably better right now.

I don't think I agree with that.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Seeing all these decent deals being signed gets me wondering what's going on at the Avs negotiating table. Are we really looking at another year where we can't get a good deal with our top players done? Barrie to arbitration would spell the end of his time in Denver eventually and a bridge deal with MacKinnon just spells trouble down the road.

Get SOMETHING done before July 1st.... I am losing all faith in our management.

 

[Avs44]

This has been gone through... they have.



No he isn't. Jones is clearly the better defensemen... not even sure if it is even close. Jones would be the best defensemen on the Avs right now.

That's not remotely true. Jones was playing third pairing minutes on Nashville. His 40 game stint on Columbus where, for the first time in his career, he had to play big minutes, does not remotely make him the 25-28 minutes a night top pairing defensman you claimed before you edited. I watched him play in Columbus, he looked downright shaky. There was nothing dominant or overly impressive about his game.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Seth Jones signs a six year deals. I don't know why Avs are so reluctant to sign good young players to long term deals. Landeskog is the only one that didn't have to take a bridge deal out Duchene, Barrie, O'Reilly and it's looking like we can add MacKinnon to that list.

Duchene was coming off not such a great year..not a bad one, but not a good one either. I imagine Duchene could have just as well wanted the bridge deal to improve his longer deal.

O'Reilly, at the time many were not sure he was worth 5.5 million a year, which is what it probably would have taken to sign long term? Hindsight is 20/20 on this one, but at the time I think most here were not comfortable locking him in long term at much more than 4.

Barrie signed his bridge deal coming of a decent injury. After getting wrecked like that, I think there was some legit concern he would come back a different player. At the time it was a safe move.


Look at the Oilers.... are all those long term deals the kids are on really helping them?


I don't disagree that signing Mac to a long deal is the way to go...but its not as simple as saying he would be a lock to sign it or want it. Say he has a breakout year this year or the next and then he is instantly in the 8-9 million range....I would be the Mac camp is at least thinking about that. I highly doubt its the Avs that are opposed to a long deal with Mac.

 

[henchman21]

That's not remotely true. Jones was playing third pairing minutes on Nashville. His 40 game stint on Columbus where, for the first time in his career, he had to play big minutes, does not remotely make him the 25-28 minutes a night top pairing defensman you claimed before you edited. I watched him play in Columbus, he looked downright shaky. There was nothing dominant or overly impressive about his game.

I edited to add a quote instead of making another post so I don't spam. I haven't changed anything I said....

Jones played bigger minutes off an on through his Nashville career, but he was behind 2 of the best defensemen in the NHL... he wasn't going to get big minutes there. Since he went to Columbus he has shown far more than Barrie has. Jones is a #1 and will fully establish himself in that role next season.

I've seen him play with Columbus probably far more than most on this board. He played at a #1 level for the vast majority of his time there.

 

[AvsGuy]

I wouldn't say Barrie is better than Jones, but in a lot of eyes he's bringing more tangible value via his superb offensive numbers. Still these last few contracts should re-align Barrie's expectations a bit - if Jones will take $5.4, I don't see why Barrie shouldn't take $6.0

 

[Avs44]

I edited to add a quote instead of making another post so I don't spam. I haven't changed anything I said....

Jones played bigger minutes off an on through his Nashville career, but he was behind 2 of the best defensemen in the NHL... he wasn't going to get big minutes there. Since he went to Columbus he has shown far more than Barrie has. Jones is a #1 and will fully establish himself in that role next season.

I've seen him play with Columbus probably far more than most on this board. He played at a #1 level for the vast majority of his time there.

He wasn't just playing behind Weber and Josi, Ekholm and Ellis were handling almost all second pairing duties while healthy. I saw a lot of potential in Columbus, but in terms of who was the most effective player last season, I comfortably take Barrie, and in terms of who has proven more, it's easily Barrie. Our definitions of a #1 defensman are obviously really different if you think Jones is one right now. Nothing I saw in Columbus was consistent enough to boost him to that level already.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Is there a good chance that Barrie signs for $6M or less? I think Barrie might be just a bit better then Jones now, but that will change in a year or two!

 

[LieutenantDangle]

i think some of you barrie critics will be surprised how good he looks even in his own end when he doesnt have to cover for Nate Guenin's and Nick Holdens

 

[henchman21]

He wasn't just playing behind Weber and Josi, Ekholm and Ellis were handling almost all second pairing duties while healthy. I saw a lot of potential in Columbus, but in terms of who was the most effective player last season, I comfortably take Barrie, and in terms of who has proven more, it's easily Barrie. Our definitions of a #1 defensman are obviously really different if you think Jones is one right now. Nothing I saw in Columbus was consistent enough to boost him to that level already.

Barrie has only proven more on the offensive side of the puck... in every other part of the game, Jones has proven far more.

That isn't exactly true with Ekholm and Ellis... Jones has averaged about the same or more TOI over his 2.5 years there. The only time Ellis or Ekholm averaged more was this past year and their ice time jumped up after Jones was traded away. They finished their seasons in the 20-23 range where the both started in the 17-19 range (Jones was ~18-20).

i think some of you barrie critics will be surprised how good he looks even in his own end when he doesnt have to cover for Nate Guenin's and Nick Holdens

Barrie is always going to have some issues. He isn't horrendous in his own end, but it isn't a strength of his and very likely never will be.

 

[Freudian]

Look at the Oilers.... are all those long term deals the kids are on really helping them?

I'm not saying you should give every young player a big long term deal.

I'm just saying that teams that gamble on talent and lock up players sometimes are greatly rewarded for it. Josi. Pacioretty. Seguin.

Beyond Landeskog, Avs don't seem to have a lot of these good value contracts and if they bridge MacKinnon they won't in the future either.

I guess they are a bit worried about the cap.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Barrie is always going to have some issues. He isn't horrendous in his own end, but it isn't a strength of his and very likely never will be.

We'll just have to see about that. If his playing partner does more than miss coverages, get back late, and stand in front of the net I think he'd be much more effective and look much better in his own end. he's capable of winning races to the puck and avoiding forecheckers quite well. its when he doesnt have support or options that forecheckers are able to muscle him off of the puck. those deficiencies can be avoided with a competent partner IMO

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It doesn't matter if Jones is currently a good #1 or not. He should be very soon. Barrie will NEVER become that. Jones is easily more valuable than Barrie.

 

[Avs44]

Barrie has only proven more on the offensive side of the puck... in every other part of the game, Jones has proven far more.

That isn't exactly true with Ekholm and Ellis... Jones has averaged about the same or more TOI over his 2.5 years there. The only time Ellis or Ekholm averaged more was this past year and their ice time jumped up after Jones was traded away. They finished their seasons in the 20-23 range where the both started in the 17-19 range (Jones was ~18-20).

He played the 5th most even strength minutes among defensmen on Nashville the past two years he was there, almost two minutes less than either Ellis or Ekholm at ES last season, only 15 minutes, but regardless, I'm dropping this now, because we're not going to see eye to eye on Jones' 40 games in Columbus qualifying him as a bonafide #1 defensman.