Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) ‎

[AslanRH]

Marchand will probably cross $6m, but I doubt Oshie crosses 5.25-5.5m. I could see the Avs paying Oshie.

If things fell right and the team progressed. I could see the Avs picking up both of Oshie and Kulikov.

If Lucic can pull 6m I don't see why Oshie couldn't considering there will be an added team to further disperse talent and money

 

[Balthazar]

If Lucic can pull 6m I don't see why Oshie couldn't considering there will be an added team to further disperse talent and money

Lucic got paid extra for his size/toughness. Oshie is like 5'10 180lbs. That's why.

 

[henchman21]

Lucic brings a lot more to the table than just scoring, and even though he is a caveman, he is younger than Oshie.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

I don't think they can afford anyone playing bad. But let's just say for example Rantanen leads the team in points and let's say that's not because the rest completely bottomed out. What effect do we think that would have on the team?

That's a good question.

If Rantanen leads the team in points it would be great. If the core players also played up to or exceed expectations then it may very well help the Avs get higher than an 8th seed in the playoffs.

However, if Rantanen leads the team in points because Duchene, Landeskog, and MacKinnon have sub-par seasons then I doubt the team makes the playoffs. And that illustrates exactly what I'm saying. The core have to play well to make the playoffs. If the secondary guys also put it together and play well then they could have a magical season like they did a few years ago.

 

[Foppa2118]

Lucic brings a lot more to the table than just scoring, and even though he is a caveman, he is younger than Oshie.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm wondering if the Avs are planning on starting the season with 12 forwards and 8 D, or 13 forwards? They're most likely going to go with 8 D, but the forwards still remain a question.

CF has them listed with about $1.53M in cap space, but with Grimaldi on the team, and not Mikko. If they're switched it's roughly the same amount.

Usually teams want to start with at least around $1M in cap space for injury callups. That would seem like they'd want to keep the cap space they have now, except with Mikko on the team, and Grimaldi in the AHL.

If they are ok with running about $500k in cap space to start, with 13 forwards instead of 12, they should be looking into Vermette instead of Grimaldi. Assuming he'd sign for $1M, which may or may not be the case. It's going to be tough for him to find a team with too much more cap space than that though at this point of the summer.

His 5 on 5 offense has dried up pretty well, but he's still decent defensively, and would help out a lot on faceoffs. Something they could really use. Basically an upgrade on Mitchell, though he'll likely stay in the lineup.

Would improve the depth as well. Let Marty and McLeod rotate as scratches, and have your first callups be Compher and Grimaldi.

Could potentially see a group like this:

Landy - Soda - Dutchy
Grigo - Mack - Mikko
Comeau - Colborne - Iggy
McLeod - Vermette - Mitchell
Martinsen

Question is, do they want to run 13 forwards with around $500k cap space, or 12 forwards with around $1.5M?

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think you need an extra one of each but they could go 13 F and 7 D if need be but that is probably the minimum.

 

[henchman21]

I'm going to guess they will roll with 7D and 13F. Bigras will be the defensemen getting sent down (better to have him play than eating nachos) and will be called up with any injury that goes more than a couple games. Swapping Mikko and Grimaldi saves ~26k and Bigras saves ~843k giving the Avs ~2.4m in space. I don't think the Avs will use all of it, but ~2m is possible and then bank what they can early in the season before injuries become an issue.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think you need an extra one of each but they could go 13 F and 7 D if need be but that is probably the minimum.

I'm going to guess they will roll with 7D and 13F. Bigras will be the defensemen getting sent down (better to have him play than eating nachos) and will be called up with any injury that goes more than a couple games. Swapping Mikko and Grimaldi saves ~26k and Bigras saves ~843k giving the Avs ~2.4m in space. I don't think the Avs will use all of it, but ~2m is possible and then bank what they can early in the season before injuries become an issue.

It's possible, but Sakic has kind of implied they'd run with the young D next year and see where it gets them. I also think Bigras will have a good summer and clearly outperform Gelinas, Wiercioch, and Tyutin in pre-season, basically forcing them to keep him regardless.

If that ends up being the case, I doubt they want to send down one of the other D. Roy likes to run 8 D if he can, and they're on one way deals to boot. My guess is Gelinas will be a scratch for sure, and one of Tyutin or Wiercioch will start as the other, depending on chemistry with the pairings.

They've run only 12 forwards in the past though. I think they're more comfortable doing that.

 

[henchman21]

It's possible, but Sakic has kind of implied they'd run with the young D next year and see where it gets them. I also think Bigras will have a good summer and clearly outperform Gelinas, Wiercioch, and Tyutin in pre-season, basically forcing them to keep him regardless.

If that ends up being the case, I doubt they want to send down one of the other D. Roy likes to run 8 D if he can, and they're on one way deals to boot. My guess is Gelinas will be a scratch for sure, and one of Tyutin or Wiercioch will start as the other, depending on chemistry with the pairings.

They've run only 12 forwards in the past though. I think they're more comfortable doing that.

The talk on Bigras has cooled significantly. I don't think he is penciled in by any stretch of the imagination. He will have to earn his way on the team and then some. The Avs sent a pick for Gelinas and Weir is a player they have had their eye on for while... they will give those two a shot early to see what they have (20+ games in they could decide it isn't worth their time and call up Bigras). Tyutin was brought in to help Z... I'd say that pairing is a near 100% lock for the first 20+ games (if both are healthy).

I think we pretty much see:

Beauch-EJ
Gelinas/Weir-Barrie
Z-Tyutin

Barrie will probably float around with EJ and Z for a couple extra minutes a game too.

 

[Foppa2118]

The talk on Bigras has cooled significantly. I don't think he is penciled in by any stretch of the imagination. He will have to earn his way on the team and then some. The Avs sent a pick for Gelinas and Weir is a player they have had their eye on for while... they will give those two a shot early to see what they have. Tyutin was brought in to help Z... I'd say that pairing is a near 100% lock for the first 20+ games (if both are healthy).

I think we pretty much see:

Beauch-EJ
Gelinas/Weir-Barrie
Z-Tyutin

Barrie will probably float around with EJ and Z for a couple extra minutes a game too.

He's definitely not penciled in, but I don't think his name is off the table either. It comes down to how he looks in camp.

Personally I have a feeling he's ready to take another step in his development after another summer getting stronger. I don't read a lot into the rough last few games he had. Prior to that he had looked more ready than Z IMO, that's why he stuck around longer.

Being forced into a top pairing role with EJ last year was kind of his welcome to the NHL moment. I think he's the kind of kid to use that as motivation and have a good showing in camp.

That said, he could definitely end up spending a little more time in the minors, if he doesn't come out with a strong showing.

 

[henchman21]

He's definitely not penciled in, but I don't his name is off the table either. It comes down to how he looks in camp.

Personally I have a feeling he's ready to take another step in his development after another summer getting stronger. I don't read a lot into the rough last few games. Prior to that he had clearly looked more ready than Z IMO, that's why he stuck around longer.

Being forced into a top pairing role with EJ last year was kind of his welcome to the NHL moment. I think he's the kind of kid to use that as motivation and have a good showing in camp.

I get what you are saying, and I think Bigras is good enough for bigger role in the NHL. I just don't think the numbers add up. Bigras isn't taking spots from EJ, Barrie, Beauch, Z, or Tyutin. Those 5 have spots lined up for various reasons. The Avs also paid a price to get Gelinas, so they have to see if they can get a return. Wiercioch has been a target for years, they will want to give him a chance. Bigras not only has to beat out those two, but prove to management that they should be willing to skip giving both players a chance to start the season. That is a large hill to climb.

FTR I think by the mid point of the season, Bigras will be a fixture in the lineup. I just don't see hit happening before Gelinas and Wiercioch get their shots.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I get what you are saying, and I think Bigras is good enough for bigger role in the NHL. I just don't think the numbers add up. Bigras isn't taking spots from EJ, Barrie, Beauch, Z, or Tyutin. Those 5 have spots lined up for various reasons. The Avs also paid a price to get Gelinas, so they have to see if they can get a return. Wiercioch has been a target for years, they will want to give him a chance. Bigras not only has to beat out those two, but prove to management that they should be willing to skip giving both players a chance to start the season. That is a large hill to climb.

FTR I think by the mid point of the season, Bigras will be a fixture in the lineup. I just don't see hit happening before Gelinas and Wiercioch get their shots.

I don't disagree with any of that logic, that's how I'd guess it plays out too. I will say the Avs' love for Bigras gets underrated at times, if they in any way want him to stay up they'll find a way to keep him. If they keep 7D it's going to be tough but if they don't need/use the money and keep 8D I bet he stays.

 

[Foppa2118]

I get what you are saying, and I think Bigras is good enough for bigger role in the NHL. I just don't think the numbers add up. Bigras isn't taking spots from EJ, Barrie, Beauch, Z, or Tyutin. Those 5 have spots lined up for various reasons. The Avs also paid a price to get Gelinas, so they have to see if they can get a return. Wiercioch has been a target for years, they will want to give him a chance. Bigras not only has to beat out those two, but prove to management that they should be willing to skip giving both players a chance to start the season. That is a large hill to climb.

FTR I think by the mid point of the season, Bigras will be a fixture in the lineup. I just don't see hit happening before Gelinas and Wiercioch get their shots.

I can see that possibly being the case, but I'm not sure they're as committed to playing Tyutin, Gelinas, and Wiercioch as you are.

I think we saw last season a change in their mentality. They sent down Guenin because he wasn't good. They ran with Bigras and Z because they were better. They traded Holden. They didn't stubbornly try to keep and play Stuart.

Roy and Sakic have made a lot of public comments basically putting their foot down and saying the players need to play better, and have sent the message that if they're not, things will change.

I don't think they will stubbornly approach their lineup like they have in the past, and that will apply to playing Tyutin, Gelinas, and Wiercioch. I think from here on out, their decisions will be made basically in terms of who gives them the best opportunity to win games, even at the expense of their own ego regarding past decisions. They know they can't have a slow start again, so that applies to the opening lineup.

I think Tyutin might have a slight edge because of his style and experience, but I don't think Gelinas or Wiercioch will have much of one over Bigras. They're obviously ok with making one of Tyutin, Gelinas, or Wiercioch a scratch, so that would suggest they're not tied to starting them. That means they won't play them just because they traded for or signed them, since they'll have to sit one of them. I think that would apply to sitting two of them.

 

[AslanRH]

Lucic got paid extra for his size/toughness. Oshie is like 5'10 180lbs. That's why.

Lucic brings a lot more to the table than just scoring, and even though he is a caveman, he is younger than Oshie.

Oshie brings a fine skill set of his own to the table, and while 2 years older will likely extend his career longer considering Lucic has the more brutal style and 100 more games under his belt already. He may not get the term Lucic got, but I'd be willing to wager that if he hits UFA, he'll get an equal or better AAV.

 

[henchman21]

Tyutin has a spot to mentor Z. He will pretty much be a player/coach for Z, and after every shift coach him through the game. Z thrived with Beauch doing that, but Beauch is too important to give that role to next season. Tyutin is a very good alternative for that role. I'd say he is as close to a lock as Z is for the lineup.

Gelinas/Wiercioch... it isn't stubbornness, it is for evaluation. Gelinas has had very little to go off of and Wiercioch has none. They are not going to be handed spots, but they definitely have a very large edge over a player like Bigras. They can send Bigras down to the minors and it won't hurt him a bit (actually would help him if he isn't going to play everynight), nor would they risk losing him. Waiving Gelinas/Wiercioch, there is a decent chance they would get claimed. Even sitting both Gelinas and Wiercioch on a nightly basis is hard to see. At some point the Avs need to see what they have, and likely give one a contract extension so they can expose one in the expansion draft (not that either would be selected, but somebody needs a contract and needs to be exposed). Justifying taking Bigras out of games in the middle of the season, likely for stretches just doesn't make sense. Putting Bigras in the minors to start and evaluating Wiercioch and Gelinas to begin really makes the most sense numbers wise and evaluation wise. Bigras will get his shot, I just don't think it happens before Gelinas and Wiercioch get theirs.

Oshie brings a fine skill set of his own to the table, and while 2 years older will likely extend his career longer considering Lucic has the more brutal style and 100 more games under his belt already. He may not get the term Lucic got, but I'd be willing to wager that if he hits UFA, he'll get an equal or better AAV.

GMs are not nearly as in love with players like Oshie as they are players like Lucic. Oshie won't approach $6m per, let alone get there. 2 years also makes a huge difference that late in a player's career. Oshie has already regressed a bit, and will likely regress more next season.

 

[tucker3434]

I can see that possibly being the case, but I'm not sure they're as committed to playing Tyutin, Gelinas, and Wiercioch as you are.

I think we saw last season a change in their mentality. They sent down Guenin because he wasn't good. They ran with Bigras and Z because they were better. They traded Holden. They didn't stubbornly try to keep and play Stuart.

Roy and Sakic have made a lot of public comments basically putting their foot down and saying the players need to play better, and have sent the message that if they're not, things will change.

I don't think they will stubbornly approach their lineup like they have in the past, and that will apply to playing Tyutin, Gelinas, and Wiercioch. I think from here on out, their decisions will be made basically in terms of who gives them the best opportunity to win games, even at the expense of their own ego regarding past decisions. They know they can't have a slow start again, so that applies to the opening lineup.

I think Tyutin might have a slight edge because of his style and experience, but I don't think Gelinas or Wiercioch will have much of one over Bigras. They're obviously ok with making one of Tyutin, Gelinas, or Wiercioch a scratch, so that would suggest they're not tied to starting them. That means they won't play them just because they traded for or signed them, since they'll have to sit one of them. I think that would apply to sitting two of them.

If it's remotely close, it's going to be Gelinas or Wiercioch because we won't have to worry about benching either one. Bigras needs big minutes somewhere.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Gelinas and Weircioch are both also playing for contracts(QOs) next summer. Bigras and his $843k are under contract for 2 more seasons. I totally agree he will start as the #1 D in San Antonio.

 

[Foppa2118]

If it's remotely close, it's going to be Gelinas or Wiercioch because we won't have to worry about benching either one. Bigras needs big minutes somewhere.

Thats where I disagree. It doesn't matter how close it is. It matters who's playing the best, and who gives them the best chance to win. They're not screwing around this year.

They won't have to worry about benching Bigras. Either he makes the opening roster, or he's sent down. If he needs to be sent down later, they can send him down, that won't be a big issue.

Gelinas/Wiercioch... it isn't stubbornness, it is for evaluation. Gelinas has had very little to go off of and Wiercioch has none. They are not going to be handed spots, but they definitely have a very large edge over a player like Bigras. They can send Bigras down to the minors and it won't hurt him a bit (actually would help him if he isn't going to play everynight), nor would they risk losing him. Waiving Gelinas/Wiercioch, there is a decent chance they would get claimed. Even sitting both Gelinas and Wiercioch on a nightly basis is hard to see. At some point the Avs need to see what they have, and likely give one a contract extension so they can expose one in the expansion draft (not that either would be selected, but somebody needs a contract and needs to be exposed). Justifying taking Bigras out of games in the middle of the season, likely for stretches just doesn't make sense. Putting Bigras in the minors to start and evaluating Wiercioch and Gelinas to begin really makes the most sense numbers wise and evaluation wise. Bigras will get his shot, I just don't think it happens before Gelinas and Wiercioch get theirs.

I can't see them being concerned about evaluating Gelinas or Wiercioch during the season. Maybe in years prior but not this year. They're not gonna risk crucial wins doing that. They will evaluate them during pre-season, and they have all year to make an impression and earn a contract. They don't need to feel obligated to give them games to start the season to decide whether or not they want to keep them at the end of the season.

During the regular season they want to get off to a good start and stockpile wins. If they think Bigras helps them do that more than Gelinas or Wiercioch, he'll be in the lineup. Waivers won't come into play because they'll just keep 8 D, which Roy has said is his preference anyway.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Have we had any bottom pair newbies start on the ice right away? Holden had to wait on the bench. As did Redmond. I would guess Guenin did as well. Gormley had to wait a few games. And this was with lesser players in front of them, not a guy like Bigras.

 

[cgf]

There are a number of different opinions on this topic - what has to happen for the Avs to make the playoffs. You've focused on defense, others have focused on the young guys' development (which equates to quality depth, IMO), others focus on the core righting itself. I think they all have merit. And to a certain extent, they all really need to happen for a playoff run.

This is really in Roy's lap now. The pieces are there for Colorado to at least sniff the playoffs, but a lot has to go right.



This is where I stand also. Those guys need to perform.

The team sniffed the playoffs last year with a lot of those things going wrong. And we're a stronger team than we were a year ago.

 

[Perratrooper]

Personally if I'md the Avs I'm running 2 strong players with a hopeful top 6 and 2 Vet dmen with our hopeful top 4. So maybe lines of:

Grigs-MacK-Duchene
Landy-Yeti-Rantanen
Comeau-Mitchell-Iginla (hopefully not)
McLeoud-Martinsen-Skille

Barrie-EJ
Bigras-Beauch
Zadorov-Tyutin
Or
Bigras-EJ
Beauch-Barrie
Zadorov-Tyutin

 

[Avsblitzkrieg]

I think bigras needs to get stronger, and continue to work on his offense in the AHL. I also don't think bigras at this point offers much more then wier, g. I'm patient, I don't think another year is gonna kill him

 

[McMetal]

Bigras is probably not going to have trouble being one of our six best defensemen at camp, but I agree that it's likely Wier and Gelly get their turns first and Bigras gets the callup halfway through again (and sticks). There are just too many defensemen on the team, and Bigras is the only one who can be sent down easily and be prepared for (and benefit from) top minutes in SA.

I think Wiercioch is going to wipe out the way Gormley did, but I think Gelinas has a decent chance to stick it out and be an OK bottom pair guy. But injuries and washouts will necessitate Bigras returning to the NHL sooner or later.

 

[Flanagan]

The team sniffed the playoffs last year with a lot of those things going wrong. And we're a stronger team than we were a year ago.

Are we though? There wasn't a whole lot of change. Compared to the start of last season I mean.

G: Berra out, Pickard in. This is an upgrade, but only at the backup position. And Pickard was pretty much the backup last year anyways.

D: Holden, Redmond, Gormley, and the corpse of Brad Stuart out. Tyutin, Bigras/Zadorov, Gelinas, and Weircoch in.

Holden and Tyutin are probably even, although they will be playing different roles. Gelinas and Weircoch still have a lot of work to do if they want to prove they're any better than the likes of Redmond/Gormley/Stuart. That leaves Zadorov and Bigras, either likely being an upgrade from last year.

F: Tanguay and Skille out, Rantanen and Compher (?) in. That's a lot of uncertainty with the young guys. Although they could be great, at this point I cannot say they're better than the older two. I am very hopeful that Rantanen will be better than what we saw from Tanguay last year.

So overall the team is almost the same. Comparing to what I thought we'd see opening night last year, I think we have slight upgrades in three spots: backup goalie, a second pairing d-man, and a second line forward. Everything else is pretty much the same. Any growth by guys like MacKinnon and Grigorenko could easily be offset by Iginla or Beachemin talking another step back.