Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VII

[McMetal]

I think there are two ways to look at Landeskog and Duchene in terms of value.

Everyone argues Duchene is a free agent in 2 years... Well thats not true, if a contender, or near contender grabbed him thats another half season and playoff run. A lot of the offers we've seen are honestly barely even TDL deals. Duchene is a 25-30G scorer good for 60-70pts and the best face-off man in the league. Imagine if he actually had real line mates. A young 30 goal scorer, with term, on a good contract, on the right team gives them 3 good runs at the cup. I'd say he's worth TDL prices ++

Landeskog is very much in the same boat. Leader, good for 20-25G, great two way player. With an even better contract and longer term...

I do think the Avs are asking for the moon, but they can. They're two players that are worth the price being asked at this time.

I don't think past trades really ever set the market in terms of current value. The value of these two players is different now than it will be at any other point. There are a lot of teams vying for playoff spots. Yeah the prices are high, but some teams might be able to grab them without killing their line up and get the long term benefit. For example, the Canes may not push for a spot this year, but Landeskog or Duchene would be great there. The Habs are a team who could use either, and probably afford them in a trade.

So that said I don't think the Avs are asking to much. I just think they're looking at the market and going, well we don't have to trade these guys, but if you want them, and pay the price they can be had. Players like Duchene and Landeskog are RARELY available or get get traded with term left on good contracts. I think the prices are high, but I think it can be asked. Obviously I expect less in return than whats being asked, but good for Sakic. Start high, and come out with fair value.

Frankly, if we don't get exactly what Sakic is asking for them, we should keep both players. They're more valuable on this team than off it unless somebody overpays. Trading a young core player for anything less would be apocalyptically stupid.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Except Hanifin isn't top 2 ready and Zadorov/Barrie would be a terrible pair. If Hanifin is traded Zadorov should be traded as well. Or Barrie for a Hamonic type dman.

Those lines won't work.

Nor is that positive really. Positive is saying Zadorov and his immense potential becomes the top pairing guy he can be and makes our need for a dman still important, but not move Duchene important.

I think Z-EJ is going to happen, now it's about how you want to build the second pair. I guess if you get a Hanifin then he goes with Barrie and could do Bigras-Mironov as third pair. Or whoever is leftover, like Wiercoich.

 

[McMetal]

I think Z-EJ is going to happen, now it's about how you want to build the second pair. I guess if you get a Hanifin then he goes with Barrie and could do Bigras-Mironov as third pair. Or whoever is leftover, like Wiercoich.

Keep in mind though, EJ will probably drop off the top pairing in 2-3 years. We'll need a #1 to replace him by then.

 

[the_fan]

Keep in mind though, EJ will probably drop off the top pairing in 2-3 years. We'll need a #1 to replace him by then.

It's ok, Sakic will find a 38 year old veteran d-man who used to be a #1 d-man on some team 10 years ago and say, he plays the game the right way and will be our #1 d-man while mentoring young guys

 

[CobraAcesS]

Keep in mind though, EJ will probably drop off the top pairing in 2-3 years. We'll need a #1 to replace him by then.

Q the cgf post about Zadorov - Meloche!

Go...

 

[lonelybadger]

I'm beginning to think the avs won't trade lando or duchene and just suck forever on d.

 

[the_fan]

^^^yes

 

[McMetal]

I'm beginning to think the avs won't trade lando or duchene and just suck forever on d.

It's not like that is the ONLY way to fix the D.

 

[agentblack]

It's not like that is the ONLY way to fix the D.

No but the other ways are to trade assets we dont really have or spend money on dudes that dont want to come here, unless we overpay

 

[CobraAcesS]

It might be since we're all so afraid of drafting a defender high. No one wants Liljegren

 

[Sea Eagles]

^^^yes

Mate, I thought we agreed staying the coarse was the way to go, what with bringing in Jost, Compher, Bigras, Greer & others and attaining a top 2-3 pick.

Then with whatever cap space we have, you go out and acquire a few UFA's.

I'm telling everyone straight - a few QUALITY wingers next to Duchene / Mackinnon, they will explode offensively - don't be so quick to break that up.

Defensively, we have EJ, Barrie, Zadorov to build around with Bigras coming through. Acquire a solid D-man through free agency, or when a team is cap strapped (like we won't be).

Get those right adds, we'll be amazing. Gee I hope Sakic doesn't crumble under the pressure, and make a move to appease everyone.

 

[dahrougem2]

Mate, I thought we agreed staying the coarse was the way to go, what with bringing in Jost, Compher, Bigras, Greer & others and attaining a top 2-3 pick.

Then with whatever cap space we have, you go out and acquire a few UFA's.

I'm telling everyone straight - a few QUALITY wingers next to Duchene / Mackinnon, they will explode offensively - don't be so quick to break that up.

Defensively, we have EJ, Barrie, Zadorov to build around with Bigras coming through. Acquire a solid D-man through free agency, or when a team is cap strapped (like we won't be).

Get those right adds, we'll be amazing. Gee I hope Sakic doesn't crumble under the pressure, and make a move to appease everyone.

Lol that easy, eh?

UFA defensemen just fall from the sky who are top-4 caliber in today's NHL for a good price.

 

[agentblack]

It might be since we're all so afraid of drafting a defender high. No one wants Liljegren

If thats the case then we're screwed but if we are that afraid then trade down and draft the defender you want and pick up another pick which we desperately need during this new-build.

 

[McMetal]

No but the other ways are to trade assets we dont really have or spend money on dudes that dont want to come here, unless we overpay

Not necessarily. We have a first round pick this year that's almost certain to be a forward. That's an asset right there. If you're willing to trade a proven NHL player like Duchene for D, why wouldn't you trade an 18 year old forward?

Not to mention, there are teams that are going to be unable to protect all their defensemen for the expansion draft. I'll bet a GM would rather take an underpayment for one of them rather than lose them for nothing. We could package up the assets we get from selling rentals to pry one of them loose. Again, if you're willing to trade Duchene for D help, why wouldn't you trade Beaudin (for example), who will never be as good?

I just don't get the tunnel vision people have on this issue.

 

[Freudian]

If you trade for Duchene you will get three playoff runs and a good chance to re-sign him if the team is good. Duchene has always been loyal but I do think he's at the point where he wants to start winning.

That should have very high value to some teams around the league.

 

[agentblack]

Not necessarily. We have a first round pick this year that's almost certain to be a forward. That's an asset right there. If you're willing to trade a proven NHL player like Duchene for D, why wouldn't you trade an 18 year old forward?

Not to mention, there are teams that are going to be unable to protect all their defensemen for the expansion draft. I'll bet a GM would rather take an underpayment for one of them rather than lose them for nothing. We could package up the assets we get from selling rentals to pry one of them loose. Again, if you're willing to trade Duchene for D help, why wouldn't you trade Beaudin (for example), who will never be as good?

I just don't get the tunnel vision people have on this issue.

So how would you fix the defense? help me out of my tunnel

 

[McMetal]

So how would you fix the defense? help me out of my tunnel

Umm, I just outlined two possibilities there... You want specifics? Patrick for Hanifin, straight up. They get a potential #1C, we get a potential #1D.

 

[lonelybadger]

I really don't see the avs getting #1 overall. Even if they finish dead last odds are not great for 1st.

 

[the_fan]

Mate, I thought we agreed staying the coarse was the way to go, what with bringing in Jost, Compher, Bigras, Greer & others and attaining a top 2-3 pick.

Then with whatever cap space we have, you go out and acquire a few UFA's.

I'm telling everyone straight - a few QUALITY wingers next to Duchene / Mackinnon, they will explode offensively - don't be so quick to break that up.

Defensively, we have EJ, Barrie, Zadorov to build around with Bigras coming through. Acquire a solid D-man through free agency, or when a team is cap strapped (like we won't be).

Get those right adds, we'll be amazing. Gee I hope Sakic doesn't crumble under the pressure, and make a move to appease everyone.

Yeah bro, we talked about how Avs were good when they had ROR and Stastny to go along with Duchene, Landeskog and MacKinnon, even though the success they had was only for a year, but it was a good year minus the 1st round game 7 loss of course.

But here is the problem. With salary cap as we saw, it's hard to keep all those forwards when they start demanding big money. Having Jost and possibly Patrick will give the Avs what they had with Stastny and ROR, perhaps better, but will they be able to keep all of those players? After the entry level contracts, both Jost and Patrick will most likely ask for a lot of money, how long can they keep all those players?

If Avs gonna go that route, loading up forward depth and not looking for a true legit #1 d-man, then they better somehow build a winning culture fast so some of those players would take discount to stay with the Avs because they wanna win and have a good thing going in Colorado, like Keith did with the Hawks etc..

It's not gonna be easy, and even if all those forwards stay together for a while, and with some better coaching and 3rd 4th lines, the Avs would probably be a playoff team, but can they really go very far with Zadorov, EJ, Bigras running the blue line?

Keep in mind that Avs also need a goalie, it's being overlooked somewhat, but Varly is way inconsistent this days, and it's probably because of his on going chronic groin issue.

Just too many ifs and question with this organization, and it's hard to know where this team is headed

 

[McMetal]

I really don't see the avs getting #1 overall. Even if they finish dead last odds are not great for 1st.

Just spitballing there. Obviously no one knows where we pick.

 

[Avs_19]

I know this will feed right into the HF loves prospects, picks, and unknowns and would take them over established players talk but I'd keep our likely top 3 pick over Duchene. I think that would be the smart move if the plan is to do this properly and not take shortcuts. Duchene will be in his late 20's and in need of a new contract by the time someone like Hanifin starts reaching his potential. I just don't think it fits and it would make more sense to have Patrick/Hischier/Vilardi/etc and a young defenseman like Hanifin.

I wouldn't want them to go in this direction but if they just want to retool and trade the pick then trade it for a more established defenseman.

 

[Bender]

I'm beginning to think the avs won't trade lando or duchene and just suck forever on d.

So let's say just for funsies, that the Avs would make these moves at the deadline :

A) Tyson Barrie for Jonathan Drouin
B) Gabriel Landeskog for Jake Muzzin & Tanner Pearson
C) Matt Duchene for Justin Faulk

(+/- picks / prospects or whatever, that's not important right now)

Drouin-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Pearson-Jost-2017 1 Rd Pick or UFA
Greer-Soderberg-Compher
Nieto-Colborne-Comeau

Muzzin-Faulk
Zadorov-EJohnson
Bigras-Mironov/Weircioch

Varly
Pickard

If those moves were made, I'd really miss the guys we moved out but if the end result ended up with a solid top-4 like that, easily the best in 12-13 years, you have to think that it would go a long way towards getting this team back on track. This is only a guess but I figure Sakic has something similar to this in mind.

Then the Avs could sign Radulov and Roy could only wonder what could have been.

 

[agentblack]

Umm, I just outlined two possibilities there... You want specifics? Patrick for Hanifin, straight up. They get a potential #1C, we get a potential #1D.

If we're getting Patrick id rather keep him tbh, it makes more sense going forward , if CAR wont take Dutchy back for Hanifin then move on.
Im so confused about the exp draft i wont comment on it but to me it seems like a waste to package the picks we might get for like one guy when they should be used to restock the cubbard at the draft. Like imagine getting a couple 2nds and 3rd and then poof gone for ..Ron Hainsey

 

[lonelybadger]

I'd love drouin but I think that dream is dead. He's their best forward right now other than kucherov.

But I would love drouin for EJ or Barrie.

 

[McMetal]

If we're getting Patrick id rather keep him tbh, it makes more sense going forward , if CAR wont take Dutchy back for Hanifin then move on.
Im so confused about the exp draft i wont comment on it but to me it seems like a waste to package the picks we might get for like one guy when they should be used to restock the cubbard at the draft. Like imagine getting a couple 2nds and 3rd and then poof gone for ..Ron Hainsey

If that guy is a top 4 defenseman hell yes I would do that. Better than using those picks on guys who won't help the org for a few years while we wait for MacKinnon to get older. We can fix this NOW, and keep our good forwards. Picks and prospects < NHLers.