Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VII

[Metallo]

It's hard to figure out exactly want they want to do since they could go 2-ways : either retooling by only making ONE 'Ryjo for Jones' type of trade or they could go nuclear and ship out Duchene+Landeskog+Barrie, etc...

The Avs need to improve their defense and are currently last in the league. Even if we finished with a top-3 pick in next year's draft, we'd probably be selecting a forward anyways as this draft is forward heavy in the top-10. So that's kind of the predicament that they find themselves in.

Tyson Jost will likely be on the Avs next year and if the Avs are able to select a Nolan Patrick/Nico Hischier type of player, that could be another guy that 'could' NHL ready. So moves to improve the blueline by trading Landeskog and/or Duchene could make some sense when you view it that way.

I think the Avs will only make a deal if it's going to be a really good deal for them or else they will likely wait to see where they are going to be picking in the draft before they make a decision on who they will be trading. The rumors are running rampant right now with the availability of Duchene+Landeskog but that is also getting good dialogue going on the vets that Sakic wants to ship out before the trade deadline.

If we get Hischier then he is much more likely to make the club that Jost. IMO penciling Jost in the top6 is quite irrational. Unless he makes it by default and we expect to have the worst top6 in the NHL.

 

[Skip2myBordyloo]

Tyson Jost will likely be on the Avs next year and if the Avs are able to select a Nolan Patrick/Nico Hischier type of player, that could be another guy that 'could' NHL ready. So moves to improve the blueline by trading Landeskog and/or Duchene could make some sense when you view it that way.

I feel like that would be rushing him.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Thanks!

For the record, the Avs aren't looking for a goalie, correct?

I think the Avs would want to shake up their goaltending but they need to do something with Varlamov first and it wouldn't solve the expansion quandary with Pickard. So no, doesn't fit right now.

I've been thinking about the goaltending and how below average Pickard and Varly have been and I wonder how much their performance is dependent on the team around then. Not just on the facing breakdowns part but just mentally and focus. I feel like Varly loses focus much easier when he's on a poor team. Pickard should be more used to it tho, he's never been on a good team.

Basically, every single player we get rid of is going to look better on a better team. We have to be ready and prepared for that. I think even Iggy and Beauch are going to look better away from here.

As I am not as plugged into the Avs franchise as you all are, I wonder if you might shed some light on what you think the team is trying to accomplish with the possibility of trading Duchene or Landeskog? Are they looking to move both of them and start a rebuild, or are they both available until the best offer is made and then only one of them is moved? It sounds to me like the team is looking for to move them for younger talent, so I have assumed that a full rebuild is what is planned instead of a move of one of them to shore up the team for a more immediate push back to the playoffs.

Thanks for your insight.

We don't have the greatest feel for what their plan is. Sakic says he wants to get younger but then there's rumors they want a NHL defenseman in return. This org has never gone a full rebuild so it's tough to really see they are going to do a true 2-3 year strip it down rebuild, my bet would be not. I think they will eventually have to trade one and reset things a bit but they aren't going for all futures. The reasons why are they need to change the makeup of the team and the dynamic plus we are a very asset thin org and need to get some more assets in for options down the road. So while I get that it sounds crazy to get better by getting rid of our better players, and it's not a shake up or trade to make a trade, but the way the team is comprised isn't working either.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

If Jost starts the year with the Avs I would think they will want to ease him in by using him on the 3rd line initially then move him up the line up if he is ready or there are injuries. They shouldn't rush by putting him on the top-6.

Patrick on the other hand should be ok in the top-6 as he is more physically ready and his D game is also very good. That is of course if we pick first.

 

[Foppa2118]

If Jost starts the year with the Avs I would think they will want to ease him in by using him on the 3rd line initially then move him up the line up if he is ready or there are injuries. They shouldn't rush by putting him on the top-6.

Patrick on the other hand should be ok in the top-6 as he is more physically ready and his D game is also very good. That is of course if we pick first.

The starting on the 3rd line to limit expectations, and ease them into the lineup was more Roy's thing. We don't know if Bednar would take that approach. He didn't with Bigras. Something tells me he wouldn't with Jost. He'll just use another Ben Smith or something instead.

 

[Bender]

If we get Hischier then he is much more likely to make the club that Jost. IMO penciling Jost in the top6 is quite irrational. Unless he makes it by default and we expect to have the worst top6 in the NHL.

I don't know about that. I've called for Jost to play ONE year in the NCAA and then make the NHL straight out ever since he was drafted and I've maintained it to this day. I think he makes the team because he'll be good enough to play in the NHL at 19 and it's no different than when we brought in RoR and Duchene as 18 year olds (except for the fact that he'll be 19).

For the record, I'm not the type of guy that generally endorses that kind of move. It used to drive me nuts when I'd see people penciling-in guys like Bleackley into the lineup but for me, Jost is different. I think he'll make it and won't look out of place.

I feel like that would be rushing him.

It depends, if he's ready....then he's ready. Some players are ready at an early age, some are not. When we drafted Alex Tanguay, he came extremely close to making the club at age 18. He was sent back to Halifax and was disappointed. He then easily made the club as a 19 year old. That's not to say that he didn't need to learn to play better defense but his game was ready for the NHL and another year putting up a ton of points in Halifax wasn't going to change much in that regard.

 

[lonelybadger]

*puts on tinfoil hat* I'm not trying to give this made up penguins fleury business legs but hear me out.

Penguins want iginla just one more time, but don't have the cap space. They know they will have to find a taker for Fleury or lose him to Vegas. So they call up Sakic and offer a first + Fleury for Pickard and Iginla (25%) retention on iginla.

This allows the avs to figure out which goalie sucks less, and then protect that one or make a trade for one before thr expansion while retaining a first.

Losing pickard sucks but I feel Martin is the future and not Pickard.

Granted this makes almost 0 sense but if it happened I would laugh pretty hard. It is basically a rental + backup + cap space next year for a first and a goalie they won't have past June anyway.

 

[Patagonia]

If we get Hischier then he is much more likely to make the club that Jost. IMO penciling Jost in the top6 is quite irrational. Unless he makes it by default and we expect to have the worst top6 in the NHL.

Jost has already indicated his intention is to stay in college at least 2 years to follow his idol Toews that attended the same school. Knowing the NHL is awaiting him and there is need to rush leaving early to bounce into a 3rd or 4th role and possibly AHL, staying will hone his skills, education and enjoy life as a student without any pressures.

However, he was raised by a single Mom with substantial assistance from the Grandparents so $$$ can play a significant role, otherwise he is staying in college for 2-3 years. Patrick/Hischier will have a greater immediate impact on the team until Jost and the many other young prospects arrive in the coming years. The future does seem very bright to ease the pain for the next years.

 

[EdAVSfan]

*puts on tinfoil hat* I'm not trying to give this made up penguins fleury business legs but hear me out.

Penguins want iginla just one more time, but don't have the cap space. They know they will have to find a taker for Fleury or lose him to Vegas. So they call up Sakic and offer a first + Fleury for Pickard and Iginla (25%) retention on iginla.

This allows the avs to figure out which goalie sucks less, and then protect that one or make a trade for one before thr expansion while retaining a first.

Losing pickard sucks but I feel Martin is the future and not Pickard.

Granted this makes almost 0 sense but if it happened I would laugh pretty hard. It is basically a rental + backup + cap space next year for a first and a goalie they won't have past June anyway.

Why would the avs get fleury AND keep Varlamov. That makes no sense.

What happens if Vegas doesn't pick the other in expansion? Then you're stuck with both.

 

[lonelybadger]

Why would the avs get fleury AND keep Varlamov. That makes no sense.

What happens if Vegas doesn't pick the other in expansion? Then you're stuck with both.

Because cap space is a luxury the avs actually have next year. And by the deadline next season there is no way that one of Fleury or varlamov is not tradeable.

The avs will not be contending next year and they have a decent amount of cap space in a poor UFA year. For the avs if neither goalie is claimed so be it, run both and trade one at the deadline to a team like Dallas, Vegas, Calgary, whomever. End up with the draft pick from Pittsburgh + whatever the other team gives you in 2017/2018.

For Pittsburgh if Vegas does not claim Fleury they have 12 million dollars for 7 spots to fill and will be fighting with several other teams that need cap space and need to offload a contract.

In reality it makes little sense for either team, but looking at it in terms of cap space security there is incentive for the penguins to look into it.

 

[Murzu]

Jost has already indicated his intention is to stay in college at least 2 years to follow his idol Toews that attended the same school. Knowing the NHL is awaiting him and there is need to rush leaving early to bounce into a 3rd or 4th role and possibly AHL, staying will hone his skills, education and enjoy life as a student without any pressures.

However, he was raised by a single Mom with substantial assistance from the Grandparents so $$$ can play a significant role, otherwise he is staying in college for 2-3 years. Patrick/Hischier will have a greater immediate impact on the team until Jost and the many other young prospects arrive in the coming years. The future does seem very bright to ease the pain for the next years.

Didn't Jost say (when drafted) that he is going to college for one year and play in the NHL after that..? Or do I remember incorrectly?

 

[hockeyfish]

Changing subjects a bit, now that we are in the new year, the Avs really need to extend Weirdo a year for expansion purposes. That is, unless they can pick up a signed dman for cheap or Beauchemin for some reason decides to waive. If no changes are made at all, the way I am reading the rules, Barrie would be forced to be exposed.

 

[TwoNiner]

Didn't Jost say (when drafted) that he is going to college for one year and play in the NHL after that..? Or do I remember incorrectly?

He said "one or two years"

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/24/tyson-jost-colorado-avalanche-2016-nhl-draft/

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Does altitude radio keep interviews on their website anywhere? Would love to hear Sakic's interview on Friday after the Cody Mac trade.

 

[Ararana]

Does altitude radio keep interviews on their website anywhere? Would love to hear Sakic's interview on Friday after the Cody Mac trade.

https://soundcloud.com/altitudesports950/avalanche-gm-joe-sakic-joins-julie-and-mose

 

[Cousin Eddie]

https://soundcloud.com/altitudesports950/avalanche-gm-joe-sakic-joins-julie-and-mose

Thanks!!

 

[JLo217]

Is Hanifin an Av yet? Kidding aside weren't they trying to trade up or for him after the draft at some point?

 

[RockLobster]

Is Hanifin an Av yet? Kidding aside weren't they trying to trade up or for him after the draft at some point?

They were definitely attempting to move up to 5 and get him.

 

[Murzu]

He said "one or two years"

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/24/tyson-jost-colorado-avalanche-2016-nhl-draft/

Oh thats right. Thank you.

 

[Patagonia]

Didn't Jost say (when drafted) that he is going to college for one year and play in the NHL after that..? Or do I remember incorrectly?

“Right now I see myself playing one or two years at North Dakota. My ultimate goal, the reason I went to school was to develop as a player and ultimately get to the NHL and win a Stanley Cup. That’s the main reason I chose North Dakota is because they put players in the NHL and that’s my goal. If I work on a few details in my game and get bigger and stronger, I figure one or two years.â€

Tyson Jost June 24/16
Denver Post

Hope he leaves early, but with the mess the team is playing...there is a real possibility he stays another year to keep improving and play regularly. Love his intelligence and attitude, jumping to the NHL and spending the next year losing is not enjoyable to remaining in college and continue his improvement without any pressure.

 

[ABasin]

Tyson Jost will likely be on the Avs next year and if the Avs are able to select a Nolan Patrick/Nico Hischier type of player, that could be another guy that 'could' NHL ready. So moves to improve the blueline by trading Landeskog and/or Duchene could make some sense when you view it that way.

If we get Hischier then he is much more likely to make the club that Jost.

I'm not sure either of these things are true.

The Avs have to realize (well, I hope they realize) that next season isn't going to be a playoff season either. So what's the rush in putting either of those players into the NHL? Another year of development (Jost in AHL, TBD draft pick wherever) won't hurt anything. I'm not a fan of keeping players out of the NHL when they clearly belong there, but if they're near the line, I'd keep them down a level.

Plus, didn't Sakic make a point of this semi-recently? That the organization is now committed to not pulling the players up too early?

 

[Patagonia]

I'm not sure either of these things are true.

The Avs have to realize (well, I hope they realize) that next season isn't going to be a playoff season either. So what's the rush in putting either of those players into the NHL? Another year of development (Jost in AHL, TBD draft pick wherever) won't hurt anything. I'm not a fan of keeping players out of the NHL when they clearly belong there, but if they're near the line, I'd keep them down a level.

Plus, didn't Sakic make a point of this semi-recently? That the organization is now committed to not pulling the players up too early?

I also rather keep the players in the minors as they build through trades and the draft. Sprinkle a few games in the NHL can help as well, but preferably they need to get younger.

However, Patrick/Hischier (preferable) might already be good enough to begin in the NHL. So keeping them down another year might not help as much as Jost.

 

[ABasin]

Bottom line is that defense is an afterthought for the Avs at the draft as they use nearly all of their top picks on forwards and then try to get lucky with a couple of later picks on D. To make it worse the Avs never even have extra picks to use and despite only taking forwards in the first they still take their fare share of forwards in the 2nd and 3rd and later picks as well.

Since that 2009 draft, 8 drafts, the Avs have taken a D in the 1st once, in the 2nd 3 times and in the 3rd 3 times. That is pathetic and just goes to show that the organization does not really place much importance in drafting D. The Avs actually have gotten good value out of the very few picks that they have spared for defense. Siemens, Meloche, Bigras, Elliot, Wood, Barrie and Anderson are the players the Avs took in the first three rounds. Would not be surprised if 4 of 7 of those would be top 4 defensemen in the NHL a few years from now. Siemens was the Avs own fault as you should never draft players with a limited skill set that high in the draft. Based on the results, I would say that if they simply would draft more defensemen there wouldn't be a problem with defense, simple as that.

I believe there are 2 ways to look at this problem. The 18 drafts between 1995 and 2012; then the 5 drafts between 2010 and 2014.

Until the Avs drafted Bigras in 2013, they had never (not one single time) drafted and developed a defenseman that turned into a top 4 defenseman who could play proper NHL defense (And honestly, the jury's still out on Bigras. We'll find out next season, I suspect).. The closest they ever came, was Martin Skoula. They can do offensive defensemen who can't play defense (Barrie, Liles), but not all-around or defensively capable defensemen. This has been an organizational failure since the mid-90s. Though ~20 years, 2 cups, a few HOF players, lots of good times - still a complete organizational failure. They have always drafted/developed forwards, then traded them for defensemen. Bourque, Blake, Morris, EJ - and this continues to this day: Zadorov, and the impending Duchene trade for one of Carolina's dmen (or whatever trade transpires). This malady continues to this very day.

Unfortunately, during the 5 drafts between 2010-2014, this drafting/development affliction migrated over to the draft pick forwards also. Those 5 drafts produced TWO nhl hockey players for Colorado - Landeskog and MacKinnon. Yes, Bigras and Martin still have a shot, but that is a colossal drafting (and trading) failure on Colorado's part. With defensemen, across those 5 drafts, they used 3 picks in the first 3 rounds across those years - a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. And then of course, they stupidly traded (potentially) the best of the bunch for a deadline rental.

Their inability to figure out defenseman drafting/development is decades in the making. It continues to this day. They simply must change this trend.

 

[Freudian]

Because cap space is a luxury the avs actually have next year. And by the deadline next season there is no way that one of Fleury or varlamov is not tradeable.

The avs will not be contending next year and they have a decent amount of cap space in a poor UFA year. For the avs if neither goalie is claimed so be it, run both and trade one at the deadline to a team like Dallas, Vegas, Calgary, whomever. End up with the draft pick from Pittsburgh + whatever the other team gives you in 2017/2018.

For Pittsburgh if Vegas does not claim Fleury they have 12 million dollars for 7 spots to fill and will be fighting with several other teams that need cap space and need to offload a contract.

In reality it makes little sense for either team, but looking at it in terms of cap space security there is incentive for the penguins to look into it.

Avs aren't going to keep two $6M goalies and why on earth would they trade for Fleury gambling on one of them being tradeable?

All this for a very low 1st round pick.

How about Avs use their cap space smartly instead of actively trying to take over other teams problem contracts?

 

[JoemAvs]

Let me be positive for a change:


I think if the Avs can somehow get Hanifin for Duchene, they will be on a great path.

Hanifin - EJ
Zadorov - Barrie
Bigras/Mironov- Meloche/Bigras

Should be a capable defense going forward if Hanifin can fulfill his potential.

Grab one of the highly rated Ds (preferably RHD) in the 2018 draft in the top5-10 range (Merkley maybe if he can grow a bit?) and the D could be set for a while.

Add a forward core around Mac, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost, Vilardi/Mittelstadt/Hischier/Patrick and the future could be bright as early as 2019.

As bleak as things look right now, if Sakic can get the next few moves right , we can be in good shape sooner than expected.

But we need patience and he needs to make the right kind of deal.

If we trade Landeskog to LA, I fear that we will really regret it down the road.