Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VII

[Ivan13]

I doubt Hirscher will be NHL ready next season.

And I agree that the future might be brighter, but only if they have the guts to make painful moves and target the right kind of players.

 

[Freudian]

Jost said he wanted to make the NHL as quick as possible. So his goal should be next year but since it's out of his hands, I guess it makes sense to publicly say one or two years at UND.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Hischier might be able to pull that " I was on loan to the CHL" card and play in the AHL.

 

[JLo217]

How would Nico not be ready? Kid is basically a goal per game player in the Q. Looked ready at the WJC to me. More so than Jost.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

How would Nico not be ready? Kid is basically a goal per game player in the Q. Looked ready at the WJC to me. More so than Jost.

He's winning a lot of battles through speed and smarts right now, I think it would do him some good if he could play in the A. If the Avs end up with Nico next year I think it'd be a great idea to pair them up and have them both play in the A, like how Compher and Greer are playing together this year.

 

[the_fan]

Is Hischier who the Avs should go with if they win the lottery, or Patrick? Seems like a tough choice to make

 

[AvsCOL]

Is Hischier who the Avs should go with if they win the lottery, or Patrick? Seems like a tough choice to make

Patrick, easily.

 

[henchman21]

Hischier might be able to pull that " I was on loan to the CHL" card and play in the AHL.

He can... Nico still has a contract in Switzerland and was loaned to Halifax.

 

[Bender]

I'm not sure either of these things are true.

The Avs have to realize (well, I hope they realize) that next season isn't going to be a playoff season either. So what's the rush in putting either of those players into the NHL? Another year of development (Jost in AHL, TBD draft pick wherever) won't hurt anything. I'm not a fan of keeping players out of the NHL when they clearly belong there, but if they're near the line, I'd keep them down a level.

Plus, didn't Sakic make a point of this semi-recently? That the organization is now committed to not pulling the players up too early?

I understand what you mean but I believe it's not that another year of development is going to 'hurt anything' but more that IF he's ready to compete at this level, keeping him down is pointless. Just like it would have been pointless to hold back Duchene or ROR. Unless you have an organizational mandate to keep kids down regardless if they are ready or not, that is something else entirely. I expect that the Avs will offer him a contract after his season a UND is over.

As far as the bolded, I'm not certain I agree. I think that there is a real appetite to finally address the DEFENSE even at the expense of some of our better players. I mean, Sakic should know, by my count, we haven't had a REAL TOP-4 for 13 years. In 2003-04, we had Blake, Foote, Liles and Morris (until that trade ) and we never recovered from that or rebuilt the D appropriately. Vaananen busted, Foote was replaced by Brisebois and on and on it goes and you all know the rest all too well.

I think this is why we keep hearing names like Jake Muzzin in trade rumours. While I'm not necessarily advocating for a trade like this one, I can understand where it's coming from and the idea behind it. At some point, we have to acquire a d-man with experience that can stabilize our backend that still has a good ways to go before he's near the end of his career (unlik Hejda, Stuart, Beauchemin).

While I certainly understand the sentiment that's been brought up that Muzzin will be 28 in a few months and by the time we are ready to really compete for a cup, he and EJ will be too old and that may be accurate (or not) but sometimes, maybe it's not about that. Sometimes it's about putting your team on the right track and get them to start winning...even if it's just making the playoffs and then losing in the first round. Maybe that kind of thing will go a long way for the players that have been with your club already for 3-4 years or more. Sometimes it's about making Colorado a desirable destination for free agents + putting butts in the seats. For all of those reasons, I would understand why a trade like that would happen.

In a way, it would be like the Mats Sundin trade. We ended up getting Clark (-> Lemieux) and Sylvain Lefebvre for a top notch #1 center in the league and one that was going to be that for a real long time. We didn't get full value by any means BUT we addressed what the team needed, at that time. We were able to make that move because we knew Peter Forsberg was coming from Sweden. Just like now, whether it's Jost or our draft pick in June, reinforcements are on the way, eventually.

 

[AslanRH]

Changing subjects a bit, now that we are in the new year, the Avs really need to extend Weirdo a year for expansion purposes. That is, unless they can pick up a signed dman for cheap or Beauchemin for some reason decides to waive. If no changes are made at all, the way I am reading the rules, Barrie would be forced to be exposed.

I think the Avs may end up picking up a guy either already signed or one they would prefer by the deadline, so waiting until after then to sign him may be a safer play unless they are sure they want him around next season.

They will likely have a couple other choices by the draft as well
Gelinas (needs 11 games to hit the 70 in 2 year mark)
Goloubef (needs 15 games to hit the 70 in 2 year mark)

 

[the_fan]

Patrick, easily.

I agree, but looks the choice will come down to what the Avs need the most, is it a two way center like Patrick, or Hischier who looks like more of a pure goal scorer. I'd say the Avs desperately need both those things, and i guess they'll go with the usual best player available, which is Patrick

 

[Nihiliste]

While I certainly understand the sentiment that's been brought up that Muzzin will be 28 in a few months and by the time we are ready to really compete for a cup, he and EJ will be too old and that may be accurate (or not) but sometimes, maybe it's not about that. Sometimes it's about putting your team on the right track and get them to start winning...even if it's just making the playoffs and then losing in the first round. Maybe that kind of thing will go a long way for the players that have been with your club already for 3-4 years or more. Sometimes it's about making Colorado a desirable destination for free agents + putting butts in the seats. For all of those reasons, I would understand why a trade like that would happen.

I agree with this sentiment. There's no sense even thinking about what we'll need when we're ready to be a cup contender because we're so far from that mark that it's beyond hypothetical. The organization needs to take small steps before large ones and not being the laughing stock of the league sure would help with attracting not only UFAs but coaches, scouts, quality development staff, etc. But it all begins with cleaning house at the top of the organization and bringing in experienced, competent people. Without that, there's no point to anything we're doing.

 

[Ivan13]

How would Nico not be ready? Kid is basically a goal per game player in the Q. Looked ready at the WJC to me. More so than Jost.

Same way Marner wasn't. Or Nylander. Playing against kids and playing against men is a different ballgame.

 

[hockeyfish]

I think the Avs may end up picking up a guy either already signed or one they would prefer by the deadline, so waiting until after then to sign him may be a safer play unless they are sure they want him around next season.

They will likely have a couple other choices by the draft as well
Gelinas (needs 11 games to hit the 70 in 2 year mark)
Goloubef (needs 15 games to hit the 70 in 2 year mark)

They would still need to extend one of those guys to satisfy the requirements.

 

[AslanRH]

They would still need to extend one of those guys to satisfy the requirements.

which is why I said waiting is smart. If they don't acquire a guy and are forced to sign a one of the listed 3, they have plenty of time before the ED to decide. Might just be Gollumbreath in order to send him to SA since he knows Bednar's system, but there is no rush.

 

[viach]

Every day, I hope a trade with Cans but nothing....

No news ??

 

[hockeyfish]

which is why I said waiting is smart. If they don't acquire a guy and are forced to sign a one of the listed 3, they have plenty of time before the ED to decide. Might just be Gollumbreath in order to send him to SA since he knows Bednar's system, but there is no rush.

I got you. That said, I'd hope it would be Weircioch since he seems to be the least terrible of the bunch.

 

[the_fan]

Don't think trades involving Landeskog or Duchene will happen, at least not this year. From all the reports it seems like Avs asking way too much for those two that no one is willing to give up. Maybe they'll work something out in the off season. This season, at the trade deadline or whenever, i see more of McLeod like trades, just getting rid of old vets.

Iginla maybe, Beauchemin etc... this guys might be going to contenders, and whatever Avs can get for them will be a bonus i guess

 

[JLo217]

Don't think trades involving Landeskog or Duchene will happen, at least not this year. From all the reports it seems like Avs asking way too much for those two that no one is willing to give up. Maybe they'll work something out in the off season. This season, at the trade deadline or whenever, i see more of McLeod like trades, just getting rid of old vets.

Iginla maybe, Beauchemin etc... this guys might be going to contenders, and whatever Avs can get for them will be a bonus i guess

I think there are two ways to look at Landeskog and Duchene in terms of value.

Everyone argues Duchene is a free agent in 2 years... Well thats not true, if a contender, or near contender grabbed him thats another half season and playoff run. A lot of the offers we've seen are honestly barely even TDL deals. Duchene is a 25-30G scorer good for 60-70pts and the best face-off man in the league. Imagine if he actually had real line mates. A young 30 goal scorer, with term, on a good contract, on the right team gives them 3 good runs at the cup. I'd say he's worth TDL prices ++

Landeskog is very much in the same boat. Leader, good for 20-25G, great two way player. With an even better contract and longer term...

I do think the Avs are asking for the moon, but they can. They're two players that are worth the price being asked at this time.

I don't think past trades really ever set the market in terms of current value. The value of these two players is different now than it will be at any other point. There are a lot of teams vying for playoff spots. Yeah the prices are high, but some teams might be able to grab them without killing their line up and get the long term benefit. For example, the Canes may not push for a spot this year, but Landeskog or Duchene would be great there. The Habs are a team who could use either, and probably afford them in a trade.

So that said I don't think the Avs are asking to much. I just think they're looking at the market and going, well we don't have to trade these guys, but if you want them, and pay the price they can be had. Players like Duchene and Landeskog are RARELY available or get get traded with term left on good contracts. I think the prices are high, but I think it can be asked. Obviously I expect less in return than whats being asked, but good for Sakic. Start high, and come out with fair value.

 

[the_fan]

I think there are two ways to look at Landeskog and Duchene in terms of value.

Everyone argues Duchene is a free agent in 2 years... Well thats not true, if a contender, or near contender grabbed him thats another half season and playoff run. A lot of the offers we've seen are honestly barely even TDL deals. Duchene is a 25-30G scorer good for 60-70pts and the best face-off man in the league. Imagine if he actually had real line mates. A young 30 goal scorer, with term, on a good contract, on the right team gives them 3 good runs at the cup. I'd say he's worth TDL prices ++

Landeskog is very much in the same boat. Leader, good for 20-25G, great two way player. With an even better contract and longer term...

I do think the Avs are asking for the moon, but they can. They're two players that are worth the price being asked at this time.

I don't think past trades really ever set the market in terms of current value. The value of these two players is different now than it will be at any other point. There are a lot of teams vying for playoff spots. Yeah the prices are high, but some teams might be able to grab them without killing their line up and get the long term benefit. For example, the Canes may not push for a spot this year, but Landeskog or Duchene would be great there. The Habs are a team who could use either, and probably afford them in a trade.

So that said I don't think the Avs are asking to much. I just think they're looking at the market and going, well we don't have to trade these guys, but if you want them, and pay the price they can be had. Players like Duchene and Landeskog are RARELY available or get get traded with term left on good contracts. I think the prices are high, but I think it can be asked. Obviously I expect less in return than whats being asked, but good for Sakic. Start high, and come out with fair value.

I'm not sure what the asking price is for Duchene, but from one report saying Sakic asked for top d-man or a top d prospect plus 1st round pick for Landeskog, i think that's asking for too much. Even though Landeskog is young and a solid two way forward capable of scoring 50 or 60 points, but he is a winger, and no one is gonna give up their top d or d prospect and include their 1st round pick.

Even if Landeskog was a center, that would still be too much to ask for him, and it isn't a fair value for other teams, even if Avs think it is. I mean it might even be hard to get just a top d in return for Landeskog, but asking for the D and a 1st? Not gonna happen

 

[EdAVSfan]

I'm not sure what the asking price is for Duchene, but from one report saying Sakic asked for top d-man or a top d prospect plus 1st round pick for Landeskog, i think that's asking for too much. Even though Landeskog is young and a solid two way forward capable of scoring 50 or 60 points, but he is a winger, and no one is gonna give up their top d or d prospect and include their 1st round pick.

Even if Landeskog was a center, that would still be too much to ask for him, and it isn't a fair value from other teams, even if Avs think it is. I mean it might even be hard to get just a top d in return for Landeskog, but asking for the D and a 1st? Not gonna happen

We quite literally just got that for ROR.

A top d prospect and the 31st overall, grigorenko. And that's with RORs contract uncertainty.

Id assume compher for McGinn was a fair trade off.

 

[CobraAcesS]

We quite literally just got that for ROR.

A top d prospect and the 31st overall, grigorenko. And that's with RORs contract uncertainty.

Id assume compher for McGinn was a fair trade off.

McGinn was a pending UFA after the following season coming off of back surgery. McGinn might have been more of a throw in than Grigorenko was.

Compher had more value than both of them I think

 

[Ivan13]

McGinn was a pending UFA after the following season coming off of back surgery. McGinn might have been more of a throw in than Grigorenko was.

Compher had more value than both of them I think

He did, quite a bit as well. Sabers were very high on him.

 

[the_fan]

We quite literally just got that for ROR.

A top d prospect and the 31st overall, grigorenko. And that's with RORs contract uncertainty.

Id assume compher for McGinn was a fair trade off.

I guess it all depends if Sakic asking for another Zadorov type or something better, more established D. If it is Zadorov like d prospect, then it's possible, but the Avs could use a better more established d-man than Zadorov

 

[Gabe the Babe]

Let me be positive for a change:


I think if the Avs can somehow get Hanifin for Duchene, they will be on a great path.

Hanifin - EJ
Zadorov - Barrie
Bigras/Mironov- Meloche/Bigras

Should be a capable defense going forward if Hanifin can fulfill his potential.

Grab one of the highly rated Ds (preferably RHD) in the 2018 draft in the top5-10 range (Merkley maybe if he can grow a bit?) and the D could be set for a while.

Add a forward core around Mac, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost, Vilardi/Mittelstadt/Hischier/Patrick and the future could be bright as early as 2019.

As bleak as things look right now, if Sakic can get the next few moves right , we can be in good shape sooner than expected.

But we need patience and he needs to make the right kind of deal.

If we trade Landeskog to LA, I fear that we will really regret it down the road.

Except Hanifin isn't top 2 ready and Zadorov/Barrie would be a terrible pair. If Hanifin is traded Zadorov should be traded as well. Or Barrie for a Hamonic type dman.

Those lines won't work.

Nor is that positive really. Positive is saying Zadorov and his immense potential becomes the top pairing guy he can be and makes our need for a dman still important, but not move Duchene important.