Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part V

[ABasin]

How many of you have seen Chicago play in person? It's really an amazing thing.

If you watch them during the pre game warm up, you can see it. This championship mentality. They show up ready to play every night. Kane and Panarin will stay on the ice and practice cross ice passing drills and they are often the last players off the ice. The only other, Duncan Keith. Even in watching the interview on NHL network last night with Jagr, that is the vet this team is missing. A guy that shows the kids how to practice, how to train, how to win and how to lose. I think that Florida is a crazy talented team, but they didn't turn that corner last season until they had Jagr in that locker room.

Their passing on the power play is awesome. Really hard passes tape-to-tape all power play long.

But Chicago just keeps plugging guys into those depth positions, and they turn out to be at least passable players, if not damn good ones.

 

[Balthazar]

As much of a fan of Mack everyone is, he still hasn't played great other than his rookie year, and spurts here and there.

Seems crazy but I think the Value they could get for Mack would be huge, and he might be the first player I look at trading simply based on his value as a player he'll hold league wide. I think you hold onto Duchene going forward still especially if they can land Patrick in the draft. I know this also won't be popular but I think Landeskog has a decent shot of being moved. And I wouldn't be against it. I think those two players net you far more value in trades to actually fill out this roster from the back end going forward.

What do you want, though? If you keep Duchene and EJ they'll be past their prime when the new kids are ready. Mack wouldn't be. Age is a huge factor in a rebuild like this. If you ever want to contend for the cup you need your best players in their prime. That's why you need to keep Mack but trade Varly, Duchene and EJ.

 

[Freudian]

With the way Söderberg is looking, I just don't see why Vegas would ever pick him in an expansion draft. Comeau/Mitchell are much more likely targets. They would be on the hook for one year with those. Perhaps even Varlamov/Pickard as well, but with the way Avs are getting destroyed at the moment, they might be losing attractiveness.

 

[xbestboybandever]

What do you want, though? If you keep Duchene and EJ they'll be past their prime when the new kids are ready. Mack wouldn't be. Age is a huge factor in a rebuild like this. If you ever want to contend for the cup you need your best players in their prime. That's why you need to keep Mack and Landy but trade Varly, Duchene and EJ.

First off, Landeskog is a year younger than Duchene, so let's not use that excuse.

Secondly, if Mack gets moved, it's a hockey trade. That's what needs to be done, not picks and prospects, but hockey trades that net established players that can help out now. So, you move Mack for a player like Hanfin+. Then how about Barrie+ for Drouin. Maybe Zadorov and a 2nd for Trouba? Then back up the brinks truck to Karl Alzner?

You have to give to get.

 

[Balthazar]

First off, Landeskog is a year younger than Duchene, so let's not use that excuse.

Secondly, if Mack gets moved, it's a hockey trade. That's what needs to be done, not picks and prospects, but hockey trades that net established players that can help out now. So, you move Mack for a player like Hanfin+. Then how about Barrie+ for Drouin. Maybe Zadorov and a 2nd for Trouba? Then back up the brinks truck to Karl Alzner?

You have to give to get.

Ok so you think we can win with the current team as a base by just swapping a player or two. You're very wrong, but fair enough.

 

[JoemAvs]

First off, Landeskog is a year younger than Duchene, so let's not use that excuse.

Secondly, if Mack gets moved, it's a hockey trade. That's what needs to be done, not picks and prospects, but hockey trades that net established players that can help out now. So, you move Mack for a player like Hanfin+. Then how about Barrie+ for Drouin. Maybe Zadorov and a 2nd for Trouba? Then back up the brinks truck to Karl Alzner?

You have to give to get.

Why?

Because you don't want to wait?

This team has a clear talent deficiency that you won't fix via making hockey trades...


Oh and the whole concept of trading Mac is ridiculous.

For what?

Ekblad who is struggling?
What else could you realistically get that is even close to worth it (Hanifin isn't and I am one of his biggest fans. He is not that much better than Zadorov right now and I don't want to see the outrage if he would look worse on this mess of a blueline)?

 

[JLo217]

What do you want, though? If you keep Duchene and EJ they'll be past their prime when the new kids are ready. Mack wouldn't be. Age is a huge factor in a rebuild like this. If you ever want to contend for the cup you need your best players in their prime. That's why you need to keep Mack and Landy but trade Varly, Duchene and EJ.

Gotta have solid players that work hard and have shown success for stretches. Duchene has been known to talk a lot and work with young players, and he's the best player on the team. He's not that old, and even as he gets older the team will need Vets that understand what it means to be on the Avs (hopefully they can rebuild that meaning). EJ gets that too it seems. Basically keep them to help groom the young players and be a veteran presence.

Mack and Landy will net more in a 1 for 1.

I see your point though. I think the Avs could go either way on this, your perspective or mine. They'll have to do one or the other at some point. To me EJ and Duchene just seem to carry the team at their respective position more than Mack or Landy ever have. I see Mack and Landy being better players where they fit, and if management can find a place to send them that gets the Avs a Lindholm, Hanafin, or Trouba they should do it.

I don't think swapping a few players around will be the fix, but I think getting the D built really well and drafting players such as Patrick (the big center this team has wanted for a bit) assuming they get lucky in the lottery, then letting young guys such as Rants, Greer, Jost, and Compher start to be infused into the line up while continuing to draft and hopefully develop well is what it'll take to turn the corner. I'm generally pretty negative about this team and group, but I'm pretty optimistic about what they've done with prospects and picks lately, save for Wood, but thats a different argument. I'm curious to see what Butcher will be able to offer as a prospect as well. He's looked good in the DU games i've seen.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Ok so you think we can win with the current team as a base by just swapping a player or two. You're very wrong, but fair enough.

How am I wrong?

Here are the problems I see with this team:

1) We don't have a competent defenseman that can pass the puck. Our breakouts stink and we do not have a PPQB. Johnson is a good #2, but can not carry this team.

2) We do not have a trigger man. Mack needs a creative line mate that can open up space and get him the puck. He looked great on Team NA.

3) We need a shut down defenseman in the vein of Vlasic, Tanev, Hjalmarsson, or Alzner (who is set to be an FA).

4) We need better bottom 6 depth. There is no sand paper on this team, and we need it, desperately.

So, my pitch of getting better players to fill those needs instead of rolling the dice and trading away established players for picks and prospects is wrong? Not a single player I listed is over the age of 25, and our roster would be infinitely more balanced. Sprinkle in some saavy FA signings, and we are right back on track.

I don't care about waiting, we can wait all we want, but at the end of the day, getting picks and prospects is nice, but it is not exclusively how you fix this.

And again, I do not want to trade Mack, but you have to get linemates for he and Duchene that take off some of the pressure. Getting a creative player for Mack, like Drouin, may kick start him. Giving Duchene Rantanen for a full season could be huge.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Mackinnon makes logical sense from an asset management point of view. There's a few teams who will still think he has franchise talent #1 centre type potential.

As they hold him his value will drop fast.

 

[Balthazar]

Gotta have solid players that work hard and have shown success for stretches. Duchene has been known to talk a lot and work with young players, and he's the best player on the team. He's not that old, and even as he gets older the team will need Vets that understand what it means to be on the Avs (hopefully they can rebuild that meaning). EJ gets that too it seems. Basically keep them to help groom the young players and be a veteran presence.

It's not that I think they'd be bad for the team in the future, it's that trading them now, in their prime, is absolutely needed to get the most of the assets to rebuild (and God knows we need a lot of these). We won't rebuild with what we'd get for Iggy, Beauchemin or Soda.

 

[CobraAcesS]

First off, Landeskog is a year younger than Duchene, so let's not use that excuse.

Secondly, if Mack gets moved, it's a hockey trade. That's what needs to be done, not picks and prospects, but hockey trades that net established players that can help out now. So, you move Mack for a player like Hanfin+. Then how about Barrie+ for Drouin. Maybe Zadorov and a 2nd for Trouba? Then back up the brinks truck to Karl Alzner?

You have to give to get.

Made me curious as to what that team would look like next year

C - Duchene, Jost, Soderberg, Colborne
LW - Landeskog, Drouin, McLeod
RW - Rantanen, Comeau

Alzner - EJ
Hanifin - Trouba


Varly/Pickard whoever is left after expansion or a trade

Those would be your guys who have a contract next year.

 

[JoemAvs]

How am I wrong?

Here are the problems I see with this team:

1) We don't have a competent defenseman that can pass the puck. Our breakouts stink and we do not have a PPQB. Johnson is a good #2, but can not carry this team.

2) We do not have a trigger man. Mack needs a creative line mate that can open up space and get him the puck. He looked great on Team NA.

3) We need a shut down defenseman in the vein of Vlasic, Tanev, Hjalmarsson, or Alzner (who is set to be an FA).

4) We need better bottom 6 depth. There is no sand paper on this team, and we need it, desperately.

So, my pitch of getting better players to fill those needs instead of rolling the dice and trading away established players for picks and prospects is wrong? Not a single player I listed is over the age of 25, and our roster would be infinitely more balanced. Sprinkle in some saavy FA signings, and we are right back on track.

I don't care about waiting, we can wait all we want, but at the end of the day, getting picks and prospects is nice, but it is not exclusively how you fix this.

You just don't want to wait. Neither did the Avs ever. That is the main problem.

Your scenario is full of pipedreams. Why would Alzner go from the Caps to the worst team in the league when almost everyone will have plenty of capspace in the offseason to spend on a terrible UFA class?


Yeah you listed the Avs holes and with most of them I agree.
But how do you fix them without opening up many other holes?

You simply can't because we don't have the assets to make those trades. Who really is expendable ?

Nice in theory but only in theory.

Mackinnon makes logical sense from an asset management point of view. There's a few teams who will still think he has franchise talent #1 centre type potential.

As they hold him his value will drop fast.

Nice try NEB .
Not falling for that one .

 

[xbestboybandever]

Made me curious as to what that team would look like next year

C - Duchene, Jost, Soderberg, Colborne
LW - Landeskog, Drouin, McLeod
RW - Rantanen, Comeau

Alzner - EJ
Hanifin - Trouba


Varly/Pickard whoever is left after expansion or a trade

Those would be your guys who have a contract next year.

Look at how stacked that back 4 is! Plus with the hopeful emergence of Compher and Greer, we are not icing a super deep team, but it a team that has a very capable defensive group. I mean, Soderberg and Landeskog played well together last year.

 

[Balthazar]

1) We don't have a competent defenseman that can pass the puck. Our breakouts stink and we do not have a PPQB. Johnson is a good #2, but can not carry this team.

So we need a #1 dman. True.

2) We do not have a trigger man. Mack needs a creative line mate that can open up space and get him the puck. He looked great on Team NA.

So we need a 1C to play with Mack. True.

3) We need a shut down defenseman in the vein of Vlasic, Tanev, Hjalmarsson, or Alzner (who is set to be an FA).

So we need a #2, shutdown dman like Vlasic. True.

4) We need better bottom 6 depth. There is no sand paper on this team, and we need it, desperately.

So we need depth in the bottom 6. Also true.


So we only need a #1 dman, a #2 shutdown dman, a #1 creative C and bottom 6 depth.

 

[JLo217]

It's not that I think they'd be bad for the team in the future, it's that trading them now, in their prime, is absolutely needed to get the most of the assets to rebuild (and God knows we need a lot of these). We won't rebuild with what we'd get for Iggy, Beauchemin or Soda.

For sure, I think this could be same Barrie, Landeskog and Mack though. NEB makes a great point as to why trading Mack right now makes sense, even if its sarcasm he's not wrong, he has a lot of value as a top pick and potential #1 guy that other teams would maybe overpay to have. Sure he might turn out great somewhere else, but I see it how the Oilers moved Hall for Larrson. Clearly the tools are there, but the Avs need to get D. They've drafted forwards in the top of the Draft for how long now? Since 09? If they're to scared to draft D that high up then they need to make moves to get D and hope they continue to have success drafting forwards in the first round or pick up forwards in other ways as the team starts to come together.

I'm not just saying this as a Duchene fan, but he literally makes the least amount of sense to trade of any of the players on the team. His return might be awesome, but it won't won't net the same as others. Same with EJ.

I guess I just see Mack as the most tradeable player on the team right now. Rantanen is about the only player i'd say is untouchable. Then again I also think he'll be the best player on the team before to long.

 

[xbestboybandever]

You just don't want to wait. Neither did the Avs ever. That is the main problem.

Your scenario is full of pipedreams. Why would Alzner go from the Caps to the worst team in the league when almost everyone will have plenty of capspace in the offseason to spend on a terrible UFA class?


Yeah you listed the Avs holes and with most of them I agree.
But how do you fix them without opening up many other holes?

You simply can't because we don't have the assets to make those trades. Who really is expendable ?

Nice in theory but only in theory.






Nice try NEB .
Not falling for that one .

What holes really get opened up though? The hope is that Jost can come in and be an effective 2-way center which would fill the hole left by Mack. Barrie is useless on this team, so we lose him, but acquire a solid winger on our already thin wing depth, and then we gain a d man or two that help solidify our anemic back end. Granted, I don't think we can get Alzner, but we have the cap space, the need and if we make some solid HOCKEY trades, perhaps he sees things differently.

 

[xbestboybandever]

So we need a #1 dman. True.



So we need a 1C to play with Mack. True.



So we need a #2, shutdown dman like Vlasic. True.




So we need depth in the bottom 6. Also true.


So we only need a #1 dman, a #2 shutdown dman, a #1 creative C and bottom 6 depth.

All things that are gettable by moving assets. Or, we can cross our fingers and hope that every draft pick we make works out. I'd rather move talented players for talented players.

 

[Balthazar]

All things that are gettable by moving assets. Or, we can cross our fingers and hope that every draft pick we make works out. I'd rather move talented players for talented players.

No, no it's not.

 

[JoemAvs]

What holes really get opened up though? The hope is that Jost can come in and be an effective 2-way center which would fill the hole left by Mack. Barrie is useless on this team, so we lose him, but acquire a solid winger on our already thin wing depth, and then we gain a d man or two that help solidify our anemic back end. Granted, I don't think we can get Alzner, but we have the cap space, the need and if we make some solid HOCKEY trades, perhaps he sees things differently.

The Avs lack overall talent. They don't need a hockey trade. They need way more talent and a legit, young #1 D which no one on this roster could fetch.

Aside from Alzner there really is no one worth spending big bucks on next season available on D in UFA.

Tampa can't trade Drouin for Barrie for salary reasons and because of his name, Jets won't trade Trouba for Zadorov + 2nd, Hanifin would struggle with this D-Core the way Zads has, etc.

It is just a bunch of pipedreams lumped together that have 0 chance of happening just to prevent doing the right thing for once.

Watching the Avs already really sucks. Do you want that to continue for another decade?


You can't trade your way out of this. If you believe that, you know not much about the current NHL.

 

[Avs44]

The defense is what is going to hold the Avs back from winning anything with this roster...if they had a good defense, they could fix the forward group with prospects, trades, and smart free agent signings. But the defense is just a disaster, and that can't be fixed via trades - not without completely decimating the forward group (and that's still a big if), and then you have a forward group that can't be fixed...


They've apparently been trying to fix this defense for years - in on Orpik and Stralman (heard something about Niskanen too), going after Kulikov, offering Landy for Lindholm, heavily interested in Trouba, going after Sekera, signing Beauchemin, etc., and they've failed. It's time to admit that and accept the inevitable.


There needs to be a re-tool, and a proper defense has to be built. Keep EJ, keep developing Zadorov and Bigras, and everything else has to be reconstructed from the ground up. Barrie would do really well on a team that lets him roam and has competent defenders around him - and I actually thought the Avs could do that this year - but with Beauchemin not even being a second pairing defender, EJ injured, etc., it's apparent that Bednar can't / won't let him roam, in large part because the rest of the defense is so bad they can't afford to let him do that. It's unfortunate, but Barrie needs to be replaced. He should be on a team with three established top four defensive defenders and a proper top pair, e.g. Edmonton with Sekera, Larsson, and Klefbom, that can afford to let him exploit his talent. He won't have that here, and by the time the Avs can provide that, Barrie will probably be 1-2 years from UFA. I'd move Barrie, Duchene, and possibly Landeskog (if the right deal for a top defender comes along), along with making available all of the garbage pieces.


Losing Duchene would be miserable. He's the only forward who's working right now, and trading the one guy who is working and loves the team would be a damn shame, but sentiment doesn't have a place. The team sucks, they aren't winning anything right now, it's time to build a new future that Duchene, unfortunately, realistically can't be a part of - in part due to his contract and age, but mainly due to top levels assets being required, and Duchene moving is one of the best way to get those assets.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Lets just draft Liljegren this year. And tank and draft Dahlin next year.


Boom, DCore for the next 15 years is solved.


Dahlin - Liljegren
Zadorov - Meloche
Bigras - Whoever




Trade Barrie and EJ over the next two years for 1st round picks and high end forward prospects to fill out the forward group as well.

 

[ASmileyFace]

For some reason I cannot find when the christmas roster lock is off. Is it the 26th? Or later?

 

[Ararana]

For some reason I cannot find when the christmas roster lock is off. Is it the 26th? Or later?

Tuesday I believe.

 

[Balthazar]

For some reason I cannot find when the christmas roster lock is off. Is it the 26th? Or later?

NHL rosters are frozen from December 19th at 11:59pm through to December 28th at 12:01am.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Lets just draft Liljegren this year. And tank and draft Dahlin next year.

I like this! I prefer Patrick, though. Dahlin's going to be a stud, one of the best/the best dman in the league for years.