dahrougem2
Registered User
And whoever they make that trade with will be extremely disappointed.
I've never been high on Strome. Have not and still do not expect him to be anything more than a 50 point centre as a ceiling.
Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part IX
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I've never been high on Strome. Have not and still do not expect him to be anything more than a 50 point centre as a ceiling.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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Me too TV. I think I'd rather him than Hanifin. Not because he's better. But because I think the difference between the two is not much and the things added to Sergachev to get Duchene will likely be far greater than whatever is added to Hanifin which might be nothing at all.
bear16
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- Dec 20, 2013
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cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
- Feb 24, 2012
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I'd much rather the Avs target a guy who they think can reasonably be the best player, even if they get less overall value. If they believe that Hanifin reasonably projects to an EJ level player, while Sergachev reasonably projects to a 2/3 sort... I'm not sure if there is enough Montreal could reasonably offer for me to take that downgrade.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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I'd agree if I saw that much difference in those two players. I don't though. I really like Sergachev.
- Feb 24, 2012
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Which is fine. I'm not in the Sergachev boat and never really have been. Boatloads of talent, but I'm skeptical if he will ever put it together and I see a very 'junior' sort of game. I'd take McAvoy over Sergachev straight up... thought that since last season.
JoemAvs
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- Jul 2, 2011
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Same here. The point about his game being "junior" is a great one. I really don't expect Sergachev to ever come close to fulfilling his potential.
Give me Chabot or McAvoy easily over him.
And IMO Hanifin is even a step above those guys to me.
You could offer me 4 late 1sts + Sergachev and I would still take Hanifin over him just because of how different I value those two (I realize that is me overvaluing Hanifin but it is the difference between a prospect I very much like and one I don't as much. Late 1sts and added prospects is nice but it does not count for much if you can't land that #1 D in the first place...)
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I don't really understand this. I mean I get we all have different opinions but you are in the want D badly camp and Sergachev would satisfy that. But yet I don't like Liljegren and that's made out to be silly because we should draft D no matter what because he's the highest D prospect supposedly and we can't pass that up but Sergachev isn't good enough. Liljegren is an offense only smallish defenseman who hasn't played much but his D will surely come around someday. But Sergachev is a big two way defenseman but isn't good because he's not pro ready in the defense department.
JoemAvs
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Well the argument is made between Hanifin and Sergachev. Both young, high upside Ds.
I just think that Hanifin is way, way better than Sergachev as a prospect.
So obviously I would very much prefer him over Sergachev.
I mean if we really don't get a better offer for Duchene and he has to be traded, Sergachev +++ is not the end of the world but I have a feeling that we would really regret that deal so I am not a huge fan.
Would I take that deal over an older D or a forward centric return? You bet.
I never criticized you for disliking Liljegren. I just disagree on a few of your arguments (especially that everyone of them starts with his size which IMO isn't even that big of a deal) about him the same way other people will criticize or disagree with my opinion about Sergachev.
I might have criticized the general approach of never picking a Dman high because that IMO is indeed silly.
And I am befuddled about the scouts ranking Liljegren outside of the top10 in this draft. But that is just my personal standpoint.
Bender
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- Sep 25, 2002
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There is nothing silly about it. You are entitled to your opinion just like anyone else on here is theirs. Only time will prove who ended up being right.
I like Sergachev, I had him ranked 6th overall and the best d-man from that class last year. Things are not always as they appear just because one player has had a great stretch and another has had a tough one.
Three years ago, the OMGZZZZ player was Olli Maatta who was selected 22nd overall by the Pens. He made the NHL as a 19 yr old and impressed right away.
From that very same draft, Jaccob Slavin was selected in the 4th round, 120th overall and he's a guy who has probably surpassed Maatta in terms of overall value. Now, for sure Maatta has had health issues but it's still an example of what can happen with two players the same age who took two different paths to the NHL.
Player development doesn't hinge on 6 month stretches one way or another. It's possible Sergachev doesn't reach his full potential just like it's possible that he does.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
On another note, what is Arizona doing today? Why do they want Mitch Moroz? I can understand unloading Peters.
And LA called LaDue up. If he's in the lineup tonight...
And LA called LaDue up. If he's in the lineup tonight...
just to catch up:
I'd rather resign Wier for a season (even if it added a couple k to the cap) than claim Barberio. Just not much of a fan.
On that note though, I think the Avs may take on a player in a trade who will fill that exposure slot anyway (Prout/Greene/Fayne/etc) as a way to up their return
I'd rather resign Wier for a season (even if it added a couple k to the cap) than claim Barberio. Just not much of a fan.
On that note though, I think the Avs may take on a player in a trade who will fill that exposure slot anyway (Prout/Greene/Fayne/etc) as a way to up their return
- Feb 24, 2012
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Shoring up the holes in their AHL team. Ranford will help Tuscon's top 6. Moroz gives them some grit in the bottom 6.
People will see what I said about him weeks ago. Solid prospect. I really doubt it means anything for a trade... LA just needs help right now.
Avs_19
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- Jun 28, 2007
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Does Shattenkirk have any connections here (other than former teammates)? Does he live in Denver in the offseason?
McKenzie once again says he's led to believe the Avs are an organization Shattenkirk would look favorably on going back to. I don't understand why the team that might be the furthest away from being a contender is one he'd want to play for.
McKenzie once again says he's led to believe the Avs are an organization Shattenkirk would look favorably on going back to. I don't understand why the team that might be the furthest away from being a contender is one he'd want to play for.
JoemAvs
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- Jul 2, 2011
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EDIT: Nevermind.
It could be simply because Sakic likes him way more than Eric Lacroix did and the fact that he might be the top D that can be "bought" in UFA...
Maybe the split was more "amicable" than I remember it to be.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Meh, I wouldn't want to sign Shattenkirk for anything over 5.5M per season. And if somehow he did sign here for that or less, you'd have to move Barrie.
I just don't see it. And we damn sure better not actually trade for him.
I just don't see it. And we damn sure better not actually trade for him.
- Feb 24, 2012
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I'd be perfectly fine paying Shatty $6m and trading away Barrie. Barrie is more dynamic 5v5, but is more limited defensively and doesn't approach what Shatty can do on the PP. I don't think any of that will happen though.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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I feel the same way. He'd be a poor fit with this particular defensive corps. Even if you do plan to move Barrie before July 1st that's a hell of a risk to take that Shatty would come back here for a reasonable price.
Still, though, if I was Sakic I'd kick the tires on him just for the sake of due diligence. He'd be crazy not to at least check which way the wind's blowing there even if nothing ultimately happens.
JoemAvs
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I really like Barrie but I also liked Shatty so I could get on board with that under certain circumstances.
Those circumstances are unrealistic though:
-Shattenkirk signing for 6M or less (will never happen)
-He has to sign in UFA (really don't want to trade anything for him right now. We don't have any expendable pieces that would be worth it to the Blues
-The return for Barrie would have to be great. I am talking Puljujarvi and not RNH.
I don't make that "swap" if RNH is the one coming back.
If that happens, I would absolutely do it.
I mean I would probably even sign Shattenkirk for 6M period.
Having EJ, Barrie and Shattenkirk as your 3 RHDs is not the worst thing that could happen. Can always trade one of EJ, Shatty or Barrie later if the need arises. Shatty @ 6M wouldn't be a bad contract and with the amount of capspace the Avs have in a weak UFA year, that would be a huge win.
But I am pretty sure that the only way he would take a discount is if the Rangers are calling...
RockLobster
King in the North
I think it's a little too early to know what Shattenkirk's market will be...and if the cap is flat (or even reduces a little), that will impact how many teams can actually vie for his services.
- Feb 24, 2012
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The flat cap will probably keep the bidding at bay for Shatty (I think his max is 6.5, but more likely he caps at $6m). The Avs will have plenty of room and space for him to play a big role.
Yeah it would have to come in the summer, but it doesn't have to be UFA. Say Shatty gets traded as a rental, come draft day a conditional pick trade ala Yandle wouldn't be a bad option (and by that point the Avs would know his interest with the interview period).
Even if the return was say RNH. This would be the swap the Avs would be looking at: Barrie + 4th + 6th for Shatty + RNH... that is a huge win all around, and I believe Barrie would get more of a return than that. In a RNH-Barrie trade, Edmonton would be sending more to the Avs.
Yeah it would have to come in the summer, but it doesn't have to be UFA. Say Shatty gets traded as a rental, come draft day a conditional pick trade ala Yandle wouldn't be a bad option (and by that point the Avs would know his interest with the interview period).
Even if the return was say RNH. This would be the swap the Avs would be looking at: Barrie + 4th + 6th for Shatty + RNH... that is a huge win all around, and I believe Barrie would get more of a return than that. In a RNH-Barrie trade, Edmonton would be sending more to the Avs.
JoemAvs
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I would generally agree with you but IMO Vegas and the dire Free Agency class should change things a bit.
Vegas has to take on a certain amount of salary and that as a consequence will free up money elsewhere.
Also Vegas will have to spend quite a sum in UFA just to get to the capfloor.
I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Shattenkirk 7M+ in the offseason.
I guess in the end it depends on term. If someone gives Shattenkirk a 6.5M x 7 kind of deal, that could get it done.
But if you want him on a 5 year deal (like I would prefer), you will probably have to go 7-7.5M to make it work.
I wouldn't mind giving up a 4th or sth for his rights if you are really confident in signing him.
I'd rather just keep Barrie around instead of trading him for RNH.
Don't like that trade at all.
Capspace really won't be an issue for us in the offseason and I'd rather go with the too many capable Ds on the roster approach instead of not enough for once and see what EJ or Barrie can land you at the draft in 2018 instead of taking on RNH. I mean it is not like our current bottom pairing options are much better defensively than either Barrie or Shatty and atleast with those two we would be pretty damn good at moving the puck.
The downside I see is that it would probably ruin our chances for a top5 pick in 2018.
Not a huge fan of RNH at all. Especially with Mac, Duchene (currently) and Jost already on our roster. Don't see a fit and I don't like his contract.
That said. I still think Shattenkirk coming home is a pipedream. Everything points to him wanting to play in the East (preferably for the Rangers). I just think some people are trying to up his value.
Floating the name of a desperate team with a crapton of capspace around might incentivize certain teams to up the ante for him.
Peter James Bond II
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- Mar 5, 2015
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I was thinking the same thing. The Kings waived Tom Gilbert today and recalled Ladue.
Ladue had a goal and an assist the other night against the Rampage. Someone on the Kings board mentioned that Voynov was called up for the first time right before they traded Jack Johnson to CBUS for Jeff Carter. Voynov made the jump easily and was great, from game 1. Maybe the Kings want to see if Ladue can make the jump and then possibly deal either Martinez or Muzzin for offensive help. ?
Or, maybe the Avalanche want to see Ladue in an NHL game? However, I cannot imagine it is that, as they waived Gilbert and are looking for Ladue to make the jump.
If Gilbert gets picked up, frees needed cap space to make a bigger deal.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Shen...-West-Coast-Thinking-About-Bob--Red/240/82618
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