Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part IX

[Vaslof]

Lots of rumors about both Landeskog and Duchene. Some posters have been throwing in proposals flipping both guys for defenders, but that seems insane and unrealistic. Sakic is asking for a defender that can join the line up immediately. With that, we'll have a top four of EJ, Barrie, Zadorov, and the new guy. Who are we going to play in the bottom two if we acquire yet another defender on top of that? You might say Zadorov, but in my opinion he is ready for top four, he has had a positive showing this season despite the team being terrible. He's been one of the few highlights in fact. We would need to ship out one of our defenders for a forward if we were to trade both Landeskog and Duchene for defenders. There was a rumor about EJ for Drouin. Is that ever going to happen outside our dreams though?

Moreover our offense would take a serious dive. It's already pretty bad. Our legit forwards are MacKinnon, Duchene, Rantanen and Landeskog. Rantanen's skill cap is yet to be determined, but he's shown himself to be at least second line material. Landeskog is trending down heavily and I think he has looked terrible out there this year, but he will likely bounce back at least to some degree. Keeping Duchene would be less risky because he has already proven himself to be a top forward for years to come, but it comes down to whether he wants to sign here when his current deal ends. I would love to see Duchene spend his career in Colorado and be named the next captain. However it would be a disaster if we keep him and he doesn't sign. With that in mind, I can't really be mad if they trade him for asset management reasons. Not sure if Landeskog's trade value has taken a hit or not. If he can still return someone matching his value from before this current season, it could be a big steal for us.

Next season is also looking like we'll be drafting high, even if we pull off a move or two. We'll have Tyson Jost and probably our draft pick from this year on the way to add to our offense, but I would be surprised if they were ready to play in the NHL and on top lines. If Duchene goes, Soderberg will be our #2 Center and that's a huge downgrade. Grigorenko or Nieto could be complimentary pieces to top lines, but not really top line material themselves, at least not without a huge improvement between seasons. We'll have some money to possibly get someone from Free Agency, but to be honest I haven't looked at who'd be available and it might be hard to get someone to sign with our team without overpaying them heavily, which would lead us right back to waiting out bad contracts. With a Top 6 that only has 3 proven Top 6 talents, we'd be betting a lot on prospects or young players suddenly being ready for those spots. That's why I think next season we will play with many young players in the line-up, but they won't be ready yet, we will not make the playoffs, and will pick high in the draft again. Drafting is going to be the key in how we make the team competitive. And it wouldn't hurt to have a non-rookie coach to help with the development of our players, so we'd have players progressing instead of regressing.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

OMG! He didn't mention Dallas, St Louis, or Minnesota! Duchene is going to one of those three teams!

 

[Bender]

Fabbro has 9 points at BU this season and is considered just doing ok and Fiala has 10 career points with Nashville, I'd slow down the hype train on that.

Fabbro is behind some pretty good players on the depth chart, that team is pretty stacked. I'm not worried about Dante Fabbro or his development. I believe his points will improve next season as I'm assuming McAvoy will turn pro.

As far as Fiala goes, I don't think points tell the whole story. I've seen him a few times at the NHL level and he shows flashes of being a speedy Top-6 forward with really good hands. I still like him quite a bit.

Lots of rumors about both Landeskog and Duchene. Some posters have been throwing in proposals flipping both guys for defenders, but that seems insane and unrealistic. Sakic is asking for a defender that can join the line up immediately. With that, we'll have a top four of EJ, Barrie, Zadorov, and the new guy. Who are we going to play in the bottom two if we acquire yet another defender on top of that? You might say Zadorov, but in my opinion he is ready for top four, he has had a positive showing this season despite the team being terrible. He's been one of the few highlights in fact. We would need to ship out one of our defenders for a forward if we were to trade both Landeskog and Duchene for defenders. There was a rumor about EJ for Drouin. Is that ever going to happen outside our dreams though?

Moreover our offense would take a serious dive. It's already pretty bad. Our legit forwards are MacKinnon, Duchene, Rantanen and Landeskog. Rantanen's skill cap is yet to be determined, but he's shown himself to be at least second line material. Landeskog is trending down heavily and I think he has looked terrible out there this year, but he will likely bounce back at least to some degree. Keeping Duchene would be less risky because he has already proven himself to be a top forward for years to come, but it comes down to whether he wants to sign here when his current deal ends. I would love to see Duchene spend his career in Colorado and be named the next captain. However it would be a disaster if we keep him and he doesn't sign. With that in mind, I can't really be mad if they trade him for asset management reasons. Not sure if Landeskog's trade value has taken a hit or not. If he can still return someone matching his value from before this current season, it could be a big steal for us.

Next season is also looking like we'll be drafting high, even if we pull off a move or two. We'll have Tyson Jost and probably our draft pick from this year on the way to add to our offense, but I would be surprised if they were ready to play in the NHL and on top lines. If Duchene goes, Soderberg will be our #2 Center and that's a huge downgrade. Grigorenko or Nieto could be complimentary pieces to top lines, but not really top line material themselves, at least not without a huge improvement between seasons. We'll have some money to possibly get someone from Free Agency, but to be honest I haven't looked at who'd be available and it might be hard to get someone to sign with our team without overpaying them heavily, which would lead us right back to waiting out bad contracts. With a Top 6 that only has 3 proven Top 6 talents, we'd be betting a lot on prospects or young players suddenly being ready for those spots. That's why I think next season we will play with many young players in the line-up, but they won't be ready yet, we will not make the playoffs, and will pick high in the draft again. Drafting is going to be the key in how we make the team competitive. And it wouldn't hurt to have a non-rookie coach to help with the development of our players, so we'd have players progressing instead of regressing.

Welcome to HFboards...good first post!

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I get that he's in the E right now, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have potential or that he cant still be a solid prospect that puts competition on our goal tending pool

I'll take Fucale as long as its recognized he has no value and he's merely a throw-in. No goalies should be in a potential Duchene/Landeskog trade unless they are agreed upon that they have no value and it's merely for the benefit of the goalie to go to an organization with average goalie depth at best.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'll take Fucale as long as its recognized he has no value and he's merely a throw-in. No goalies should be in a potential Duchene/Landeskog trade unless they are agreed upon that they have no value and it's merely for the benefit of the goalie to go to an organization with average goalie depth at best.

The Habs are still quite high on Fucale. He holds more value to them than he would to any team in a trade.

I agree with your assessment of the only way he should be in a trade but based on how Montreal sees him that simply wont happen.

 

[lonelybadger]

Is today the day muzzin and landeskog come out in their new jerseys? Or was all of the avs Ontario Reign scouting a plan to finally win a game again?

With how terrible this team has been the last two months, and all the trade smoke I cannot believe only McLeod has been traded.

 

[RockLobster]

Is today the day muzzin and landeskog come out in their new jerseys? Or was all of the avs Ontario Reign scouting a plan to finally win a game again?

With how terrible this team has been the last two months, and all the trade smoke I cannot believe only McLeod has been traded.

Seriously bud...for your own health, I continue to stress patience.

 

[henchman21]

Is today the day muzzin and landeskog come out in their new jerseys? Or was all of the avs Ontario Reign scouting a plan to finally win a game again?

With how terrible this team has been the last two months, and all the trade smoke I cannot believe only McLeod has been traded.

It is still early. Most teams just finished up their deadline meetings and really only 2 teams are out right now which will mean there isn't much competition to bring the prices down. There will probably be some small moves around the NHL over the next week to 10 days, but the floodgates won't open until after Valentine's Day.

 

[shadow1]

Any trade involving Landeskog/Duchene will impact the Avs for years to come, so they need to take their time and find the best deal; or keep said players if there is no beneficial deal to be made.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Seriously bud...for your own health, I continue to stress patience.

Well, by Sakic's own words he expected things to heat up in the beginning of February. So the sky could start falling any minute at this point.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

The Habs are still quite high on Fucale. He holds more value to them than he would to any team in a trade.

I agree with your assessment of the only way he should be in a trade but based on how Montreal sees him that simply wont happen.

Good to hear that Montreal hasn't given up on him. I enjoyed the performance that Fucale put on at the Spengler Cup. It will be interesting next season when Lindgren/McNiven/Fucale are all fighting for playing time on the AHL team. If Montreal doesn't want to give up Fucale up for nothing then that is fine. The Avs should not be targeting goalie prospects that hold value as that will take away value from other pieces we need in a potential trade.

 

[Ivan13]

Matt Duchene is destined to become Scott Gomez 2.0 if you guys weren't up to speed to the latest developments on the main boards.

 

[Avs44]

Matt Duchene is destined to become Scott Gomez 2.0 if you guys weren't up to speed to the latest developments on the main boards.

Yep, the HabsGorgeous crap. Probably only of the most illogical posters I've seen on this board in a while. His false equivalency of Duchene = Gomez, Sergachev = McDonagh is ridiculous. Just do what I did a while ago and hope nobody else quotes him

 

[henchman21]

Matt Duchene is destined to become Scott Gomez 2.0 if you guys weren't up to speed to the latest developments on the main boards.

The main boards are cray cray, but is that completely crazy? Gomez fell off the cliff at 30-31 when he lost a couple steps (Duchene will fall off the cliff if he loses a couple more steps). Until then he was a Duchene level player albeit a much worse goal scorer (but better playmaker).

 

[Avs44]

The main boards are cray cray, but is that completely crazy? Gomez fell off the cliff at 30-31 when he lost a couple steps (Duchene will fall off the cliff if he loses a couple more steps). Until then he was a Duchene level player albeit a much worse goal scorer (but better playmaker).

It really is. You can make an argument that if any player loses a couple of steps they will eventually become useless. Take away enough speed from any player in the league and it doesn't matter how smart they are, how physical, are good at other aspects of the game...if they simple can't keep up, they will become useless. It's not a remotely valid argument when you can slap that potential risk on 100% of the players in the NHL.

 

[Ivan13]

Yep, the HabsGorgeous crap. Probably only of the most illogical posters I've seen on this board in a while. His false equivalency of Duchene = Gomez, Sergachev = McDonagh is ridiculous. Just do what I did a while ago and hope nobody else quotes him

I enjoy punching holes in his theories and narratives.

It really is. You can make an argument that if any player loses a couple of steps they will eventually become useless. Take away enough speed from any player in the league and it doesn't matter how smart they are, how physical, are good at other aspects of the game...if they simple can't keep up, they will become useless. It's not a remotely valid argument when you can slap that potential risk on 100% of the players in the NHL.

Yep, pretty much. Not to mention that he compared them value wise, which makes it even more out of whack, given the age, contract, overall scoring levels in the league and respective teams etc.

 

[henchman21]

It really is. You can make an argument that if any player loses a couple of steps they will eventually become useless. Take away enough speed from any player in the league and it doesn't matter how smart they are, how physical, are good at other aspects of the game...if they simple can't keep up, they will become useless. It's not a remotely valid argument when you can slap that potential risk on 100% of the players in the NHL.

To an extent with every player, but a large portion of Duchene's game is based on speed, much more than a player like say ROR. It is about degrees of reliance. Combine that with Duchene already losing a step, and having a rather lengthy history of knee injuries at this point... I'd say he is a risk to lose a couple more steps 4-5-6 years down the road. Yeah it is absurd to suggest it may happen over the next couple years, but as he crosses 30, it wouldn't surprise me to see Duchene fall off.

FTR I'm not saying that Duchene right now at 26 is the same as Gomez at 30, but when Duchene gets to 30 I'd say the same possibility exists (I'd bet not to the extent of Gomez's fall, but I expect one).

 

[Avs44]

To an extent with every player, but a large portion of Duchene's game is based on speed, much more than a player like say ROR. It is about degrees of reliance. Combine that with Duchene already losing a step, and having a rather lengthy history of knee injuries at this point... I'd say he is a risk to lose a couple more steps 4-5-6 years down the road. Yeah it is absurd to suggest it may happen over the next couple years, but as he crosses 30, it wouldn't surprise me to see Duchene fall off.

I don't think I really agree with that. Duchene's game has fundamentally changed since his rookie season. He's became far stronger on the puck, and he has a way better shot and finishing ability. I'm assuming 'take away a couple of steps' means a fairly significant amount of speed, and if you take away a significant amount of ROR's speed I think he would badly struggle, in the same way that if you took a significant amount of speed away from an already iffy Derek Stepan, he probably couldn't be an NHLer anymore. Yet I don't think anybody would suggest that Stepan is useless because of that, or a major risk. It's a ludicrous hypothetical. How many knee injuries has Duchene actually had anyway? I can only recount one at this point that caused him to miss any significant time / required surgery?


I really don't see how 'taking away significant speed from Duchene = Gomez = useless' is something remotely valid, because I think to almost any extent with any player they will reach that point. Slow McDavid down significantly and he is smart enough and currently fast enough he'd still be good, but take away all that explosiveness and the ability to outthink his opponents while travelling in a different gear? He wouldn't be nearly the same - yet using that sort of argument against McDavid would be completely laughable. I think if you start buying into the 'every player could lose a couple of steps and become useless' narrative then you pretty much need to start trading everyone over 25, because God knows what could happen and how useless they could become. Could Tyson Barrie follow the James Wisniewski route? There is 0 supporting evidence that Duchene follows the Gomez route - no more in my view that really any player in the league could eventually take that path.

 

[lonelybadger]

Barbeiro will be placed on waivers today.
Avs should pick him up, especially if rumors of people actually wanting Beauchamin are true. He cannot be any worse and shouldn't be more than a third pairing guy but he's an NHL player.

 

[henchman21]

I don't think I really agree with that. Duchene's game has fundamentally changed since his rookie season. He's became far stronger on the puck, and he has a way better shot and finishing ability. I'm assuming 'take away a couple of steps' means a fairly significant amount of speed, and if you take away a significant amount of ROR's speed I think he would badly struggle, in the same way that if you took a significant amount of speed away from an already iffy Derek Stepan, he probably couldn't be an NHLer anymore. Yet I don't think anybody would suggest that Stepan is useless because of that, or a major risk. It's a ludicrous hypothetical. How many knee injuries has Duchene actually had anyway? I can only recount one at this point that caused him to miss any significant time / required surgery?


I really don't see how 'taking away significant speed from Duchene = Gomez = useless' is something remotely valid, because I think to almost any extent with any player they will reach that point. Slow McDavid down significantly and he is smart enough and currently fast enough he'd still be good, but take away all that explosiveness and the ability to outthink his opponents while travelling in a different gear? He wouldn't be nearly the same - yet using that sort of argument against McDavid would be completely laughable. I think if you start buying into the 'every player could lose a couple of steps and become useless' narrative then you pretty much need to start trading everyone over 25, because God knows what could happen and how useless they could become. There is 0 supporting evidence that Duchene follows the Gomez route - no more in my view that really any player in the league could eventually take that path.

It is pretty well proven that most players' primes end in the 28-30 range and after that there is a sharp drop off in production. Based on that alone, Duchene will very likely drop off. Combine that with his knee issues (and I believe he has only had one surgery, but repeated MCL tears take a toll... trust me I've torn my right one 5 times now) and he is bound to drop off. He isn't going to be a ~60 point player until his late 30s... if he is at that point, call me out and I will fully admit wrong.

With Duchene there is already evidence of him being less effective without that extra step. Most people don't want to admit this, but he has already peaked. We've seen the very best of Duchene and are now just riding the last of his 3-4-5 prime years. I think when he loses the extra bit of speed that he has now, he is going to be a far less effective player. He isn't big or smart enough to overcome not having an extreme advantage in speed (even with his lost step, he is still one of the best skaters in the league right now). ROR is smart enough to overcome his lost steps, and he doesn't have nearly the knee injury history. McDavid is looking more and more like a legit generational player... those players don't drop off. They are freaks, not the norm.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Barbeiro will be placed on waivers today.
Avs should pick him up, especially if rumors of people actually wanting Beauchamin are true. He cannot be any worse and shouldn't be more than a third pairing guy but he's an NHL player.

It's time for internal options, enough of the stop gaps.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

It's time for internal options, enough of the stop gaps.

Who would you suggest. The only real option is bigras. Is it worth bringing him into this mess? I personally don't think so, but you watch the rampage more than I do.

 

[henchman21]

Barberio could potentially solve the exposure contract issue (I think he'd need 14 more games), but I don't think he is worth a pickup. More interestingly, Montreal seems to be getting ready for something else. Nesterov... then waiving Redmond and Barberio...

 

[lonelybadger]

It costs nothing to claim him, and they won't lose their priority. And best case he plays well enough to warrant an extension to be a cheap third pairing guy.

The whole point of giving too waiver priority to the worst team is to try and give them a shot at improving by poaching players the good teams can't keep.

I really hope they are gearing up for beauch but it will probably be someone like Mike Green.

 

[henchman21]

It costs nothing to claim him, and they won't lose their priority. And best case he plays well enough to warrant an extension to be a cheap third pairing guy.

The whole point of giving too waiver priority to the worst team is to try and give them a shot at improving by poaching players the good teams can't keep.

I really hope they are gearing up for beauch but it will probably be someone like Mike Green.

He has a contract for next season.