Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part V

[CharlesPuck]

Duchene sits out for entire season. Never plays again in the NHL

 

[cgf]

If the biggest thing keeping Francis from offering Hanifin is Duchene's contract status, and Brisson is so desperate for Duchene to move; then doesn't he have a strong enough reputation to hammer out an extension with Francis right now to be officially signed next summer?

Or is the contract thing really just Francis's justification for waiting until he has a better feel for what he has in Bean / McKeown / Fleury?

You guys need to look at it from Sakic's perspective. He was offered Hamonic (who's a top 4 RHD) and a 1st and turned it down. Unfortunately Hamonic wasn't the guy he wanted but starting from there, you can understand why he'd ask for Ekholm (top 4 LHD) and a +

That doesn't make it right but you can see the line of thoughts.

Hamonic is a poor man's Ekholm.

 

[Ararana]

That would require Francis to sack up, and Francis doesn't have it in him.

 

[JoemAvs]

That would require Francis to sack up, and Francis doesn't have it in him.

Francis is a smart GM...


I would love a Hanifin for Duchene swap but honestly the Canes shouldn't do it...

Has nothing to do with Francis being a coward and everything to do with how terrible the Avs have played this...


A Duchene for Hanifin straight up swap should have happened in late December or early Januar last year...

But pretty sure that Sakic did not offer that at that point in time...

Now it is way too late for that deal...

 

[cgf]

That would require Francis to sack up, and Francis doesn't have it in him.

I don't blame him given that waiting to see if they can't get Tavares & keep that top 4 together is a totally understandable play, especially since their LHD prospects behind Hanifin are just now breaking into the NHL team. In a perfect world for them Duchene would've become available next summer, after they knew what they had & if JT was a possibility.

 

[Avs44]

If the biggest thing keeping Francis from offering Hanifin is Duchene's contract status, and Brisson is so desperate for Duchene to move; then doesn't he have a strong enough reputation to hammer out an extension with Francis right now to be officially signed next summer?

Maybe Duchene doesn't want to commit to Carolina long term? Maybe he wants a shot at free agency? Maybe neither he nor his agent are feeling too keen on making a massive concession on their part (agreeing to an extension two years in advance), just to accommodate Sakic? Maybe handshake agreements like that two years before a player's contract is up really don't happen? If I were Duchene there's no chance in hell I'd agree to even a verbal commitment to sign right now. If I were him I'd try to get on a new team, boost my numbers, and then evaluate 1) what money I could get, and 2) what quality of team I want to be on long term.

I've been typing and deleting sentences for the last 10 minutes just trying to explain the length of "WTF" in my head of people saying they wouldn't want EKholm but just haven't been able to put it into words.

I've had the debate before. Save yourself the headache

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I've been typing and deleting sentences for the last 10 minutes just trying to explain the length of "WTF" in my head of people saying they wouldn't want EKholm but just haven't been able to put it into words.

 

[Balthazar]

Hamonic is a poor man's Ekholm.

Just last summer (2016) Hamonic's value >>>>>>> Ekholm's. Hamonic had a meh year and the Preds just reached SCF...these things affect our perception a lot.

With that said, Ekholm is locked for 5 more years and he's a LHD so would be a lot more valuable for us than Hamonic.

 

[Freudian]

I don't think there is enough pressure on Carolina to go for it. There should be pressure on Islanders to go for it, but Snow and Wang have a weird thing going on.

Columbus window should be wide open and Jarmo is a reasonable GM that knows you have to give to get. I have no doubt he's given Sakic a fair offer.

 

[Avs44]

Just last summer (2016) Hamonic's value >>>>>>> Ekholm's. Hamonic had a meh year and the Preds just reached SCF...these things affect our perception a lot.

With that said, Ekholm being locked for 5 more years and a LHD would be incredibly better for us than Hamonic.

That's really close to true. And Hamonic didn't just have a meh year, he had a terrible year. Ekholm played like a top pairing D during most of the 2015/16 season, so to suggest his value was somehow astronomically below Hamonic's in the 2016 offseason - as your 7 ">" indicates - is...crazy talk, frankly.

 

[Balthazar]

I've been typing and deleting sentences for the last 10 minutes just trying to explain the length of "WTF" in my head of people saying they wouldn't want EKholm but just haven't been able to put it into words.

If you can't see why some people don't want a 27 year old that would help us to win now then you clearly don't understand half the fanbase.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'd call Ekholm a #1D. He's a top 30D in the NHL (which is my way of rating, please don't argue about how you consider somebody a #1D because that argument has been beaten to death). If you disagree fine. Just pretend I said top 30 D instead of #1.

So yeah, Ekholm to me is a #1D, on a sweetheart contract for the next half decade, who is just 27 years old, plays the left side, only has 4 years of North American hockey on his body and his stats have trended up every single year of his career.

But yeah let's not get him in case it affects our draft position next year.

 

[cgf]

Maybe Duchene doesn't want to commit to Carolina long term? Maybe he wants a shot at free agency? Maybe neither he nor his agent are feeling too keen on making a massive concession on their part (agreeing to an extension two years in advance), just to accommodate Sakic? Maybe handshake agreements like that two years before a player's contract is up really don't happen? If I were Duchene there's no chance in hell I'd agree to even a verbal commitment to sign right now. If I were him I'd try to get on a new team, boost my numbers, and then evaluate 1) what money I could get, and 2) what quality of team I want to be on long term.



I've had the debate before. Save yourself the headache

If Duchene's not willing to make accommodations for a trade to happen, then he can't be mad that a trade hasn't happened.

 

[Balthazar]

That's really close to true. And Hamonic didn't just have a meh year, he had a terrible year. Ekholm played like a top pairing D during most of the 2015/16 season, so to suggest his value was somehow astronomically below Hamonic's in the 2016 offseason - as your 7 ">" indicates is...crazy talk, frankly.

It's the absolute truth though. When Hamonic wanted to get traded for family reasons his value was sky high. Like worth-more-than-Taylor-Hall high.

 

[JoemAvs]

I'd call Ekholm a #1D. He's a top 30D in the NHL (which is my way of rating, please don't argue about how you consider somebody a #1D because that argument has been beaten to death). If you disagree fine. Just pretend I said top 30 D instead of #1.

So yeah, Ekholm to me is a #1D, on a sweetheart contract for the next half decade, who is just 27 years old, plays the left side, only has 4 years of North American hockey on his body and his stats have trended up every single year of his career.

But yeah let's not get him in case it affects our draft position next year.

Ekholm is not a #1.

"Just" 27...

Okay...

He is not a franchise changer (someone put it best. 12 months ago people would have easily taken Hamonic over him) and IMO would be strategically the absolute wrong decision for this current team.

Yeah we have had these discussions before. Lets just agree to disagree.
Ekholm is no Doughty. Not even close...

 

[LieutenantDangle]

If you can't see why some people don't want a 27 year old that would help us to win now then you clearly don't understand half the fanbase.

bunch a pity party self masochists if they don't want to fill the biggest void on the team IMO

 

[Balthazar]

If the biggest thing keeping Francis from offering Hanifin is Duchene's contract status, and Brisson is so desperate for Duchene to move; then doesn't he have a strong enough reputation to hammer out an extension with Francis right now to be officially signed next summer?

They can't sign anything. If one party soured on the other it wouldn't be legally obliged to do anything, which makes the whole process worthless.

 

[TheForsbergShow]

Why are we talking Ekholm again anyways? Do we actually think they would trade him now with Ellis out for half the year

 

[JoemAvs]

bunch a pity party self masochists if they don't want to fill the biggest void on the team IMO

Or people that would just like to see this franchise to do the smart thing for once and aspire to turn into more than a perenial playoff bubble team...

Avs roster and system is not nearly good or deep enough to turn into anything special right now...
As it stands it looks more like another failed rebuild coming up (especially if Z won't be here for long)...

Making a win-now move like this would only cement that position...

But sure.

Lets try to finish 20th next season. Go for it!

 

[Foppberg]

As bad as the Duchene situation is, at least it's not this.

 

[henchman21]

After the top 2... the next 10+ players are all damn good and fairly equal prospects. At this moment (and it is early) preference will dictate their order. The Avs could pick 4th or 9th and get the same targeted player or one who grades out just as well. The odds will be against the Avs getting the 1st pick anyway. I'd personally take Ekholm with a 5% of getting Dahlin than getting Murray and a 8-9% chance of getting Dahlin.

Hanifin is one of the very few (semi-realistic) D that I'd prefer over Ekholm. I think Hanifin would hurt the chances of getting Dahlin worse than Ekholm too... Hanifin is going to have big, big year.

 

[Foppberg]

The lottery draft is such a crap shoot now though, as we experienced first hand.

 

[Avs44]

If Duchene's not willing to make accommodations for a trade to happen, then he can't be mad that a trade hasn't happened.

Agreeing to a contract 2 years in advance in a location he might not even want to be long term is a ludicrous accommodation though...

It's the absolute truth though. When Hamonic wanted to get traded for family reasons his value was sky high. Like worth-more-than-Taylor-Hall high.

Says who? A desperate Peter Chiarelli needing, very specifically, a right handed, top four, youngish, signed defender doesn't set market value, or reflect on Ekholm's value or ability in the slightest, considering Chiarelli wasn't even willing to consider a LHD. Also, the only person who ever reported the Hall / Hamonic bit was Staple (and there's every reason to distrust him); Staple only said the Isles were not willing to meet what Edmonton wanted (which included Hamonic, there could have been more), and he couched the whole narrative with the argument that Snow couldn't trade Hamonic for Hall since Hamonic had since Hamonic had since rescinded his trade request. His justification for Snow refusing was out of Snow's desire to accomodate the players, not because of Hamonic's value being more.




I really don't think that whole situation indicates Hamonic's actual value at the time relative to Ekholm. If Chiarelli specifically needed a left handed, top four, signed, youngish D he probably would have been making ludicrous offers for those instead. Unique circumstances like that don't indicate anything about who was better in a Hamonic vs. Ekholm debate.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Ekholm is not a #1.

"Just" 27...

Okay...

He is not a franchise changer (someone put it best. 12 months ago people would have easily taken Hamonic over him) and IMO would be strategically the absolute wrong decision for this current team.

Yeah we have had these discussions before. Lets just agree to disagree.
Ekholm is no Doughty. Not even close...

I never said Ekholm is Doughty. I said he's a top 30D which I strongly believe he is.

Anybody who would have taken Hamonic over Ekholm 12 months ago are absolute moronic idiots. That opinion would be even worse than not wanting to trade Duchene for Ekholm.

 

[Avs_19]

Not entirely reassuring but I'll take that quote as good news.