Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part I

[CalderKing21]

One thing I find interesting is that Sakic said anyone is potentially available except MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Jost and for some reason the press and everyone else has run with the Duchene is being traded rumors yet the Landeskog is getting traded rumors are pretty silent; specially lately. There's a few Barrie is getting traded rumors and almost no Johnson is getting traded rumors yet Duchene rumors are all over the media, blogs, and message boards.

I wonder if that's because Duchene rumors are more sexy to report and talk about. Or, because of how Duchene handled the rumors initially vs Landeskog, Barrie, et al. Or, perhaps there really is smoke where there's fire.

I don't know if anyone knows for sure but I find it a bit eyebrow raising why Duchene is in all the rumors.

Duchene will garner the most value in return via trade outside of Mack and that's more to do with how Mack is viewed due to his age.

Landeskog likely has move value to the Avs than trading him away. Duchene can garner a package and we saw there was a high level of interest around the league for him. Damn near every team checked in and wanted to offer something.

So basically a good GM that knows what he is doing .

I don't think that's too much to ask...is it?

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Duchene will garner the most value in return via trade outside of Mack and that's more to do with how Mack is viewed due to his age.

Landeskog likely has move value to the Avs than trading him away. Duchene can garner a package and we saw there was a high level of interest around the league for him. Damn near every team checked in and wanted to offer something.

So, your speculation is that Duchene will return the most therefore he has generated the most interest from other GMs and therefore he's the one being talked about the most by the media, bloggers, and message borders?

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. So, in essence, where there's smoke there's fire.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

That's highly embarassing if true. Is Sakic waiting passively for someone to send him an offer that pleases him and then he'll say yes? That's not how negociating works.

Kevin Weeks and his partner said something about this on the NHL Network awhile back. Talked about how the goal posts move depending on the team.

 

[CalderKing21]

So, you're speculation is that Duchene will return the most therefore he has generated the most interest from other GMs and therefore he's the one being talked about the most by the media, bloggers, and message borders?

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. So, in essence, where there's smoke there's fire.

That and I think that Sakic realized that Duchene had the most value and pushed him the hardest to other GM's.
Likely figured he would spark a bidding war and some team would happily overpay(which is what happens in most cases).

I think if Landeskog's name was drawing the most interest then it would be he and not Duchene we would be talking about right now.

 

[henchman21]

Kevin Weeks and his partner said something about this on the NHL Network awhile back. Talked about how the goal posts move depending on the team.

It is Sakic's MO.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

One thing I find interesting is that Sakic said anyone is potentially available except MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Jost and for some reason the press and everyone else has run with the Duchene is being traded rumors yet the Landeskog is getting traded rumors are pretty silent; specially lately. There's a few Barrie is getting traded rumors and almost no Johnson is getting traded rumors yet Duchene rumors are all over the media, blogs, and message boards.

I wonder if that's because Duchene rumors are more sexy to report and talk about. Or, because of how Duchene handled the rumors initially vs Landeskog, Barrie, et al. Or, perhaps there really is smoke where there's fire.

I don't know if anyone knows for sure but I find it a bit eyebrow raising why Duchene is in all the rumors.

It could just be as simple as these guys actually reporting what's happening.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

That and I think that Sakic realized that Duchene had the most value and pushed him the hardest to other GM's.
Likely figured he would spark a bidding war and some team would happily overpay(which is what happens in most cases).

I think if Landeskog's name was drawing the most interest then it would be he and not Duchene we would be talking about right now.

I suppose all of that could be true and I have no evidence that didn't happen.

The thing is that I'm not sure we "really" know if all the GMs called Sakic and inquired about Duchene or if that's just media and blogger and message board speculation. For all anyone knows the same calls could have also inquired about Landeskog and/or Barrie.

There are reports that Snow was pissed at the asking price for Duchene, and perhaps some other GM comments are out there, but again we really don't know what the discussions really entailed. Perhaps Snow also asked about Landeskog and other GMs asked about Barrie and/or Johnson.

Back to my original thought. Is all this speculation real? Or is it because Duchene is the sexy topic? Or is it because Duchene didn't handle the rumors as well as the other and therefore everyone is piling on? I suppose it may be a little bit of all of the above.

 

[madman]

It would be nice to have someone in charge, who could, you know, be the facilitator of a trade. Not just waiting for offers, declining offers, and then going silent when asked for feedback.

DUBAS YOU COULD'VE BEEN DABOSS

 

[Goulet17]

Back to my original thought. Is all this speculation real? Or is it because Duchene is the sexy topic? Or is it because Duchene didn't handle the rumors as well as the other and therefore everyone is piling on? I suppose it may be a little bit of all of the above.

I have had the same thought as well. I have raised in the past, and I am sure my viewpoint is tainted to an extent, but the media frenzy seems a bit much at times. Frankly, some media members have acted as if they are taking the matter personally.

This is not the first time that a high profile has reportedly been on the market for a period of time. But I do not recall all the emotional speculation about whether the player can continue to play for his current team, or whether the team was acting unreasonably in its trade demands.

For instance, Kevin Shattenkirk was on the market for nearly two years, and I do not recall rampant speculation about how unreasonable Armstrong was acting or if Shattenkirk was upset.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hock...cle_4726e9a6-f315-5585-a1de-5f7b60f3bce3.html

 

[CalderKing21]

I suppose all of that could be true and I have no evidence that didn't happen.

The thing is that I'm not sure we "really" know if all the GMs called Sakic and inquired about Duchene or if that's just media and blogger and message board speculation. For all anyone knows the same calls could have also inquired about Landeskog and/or Barrie.

There are reports that Snow was pissed at the asking price for Duchene, and perhaps some other GM comments are out there, but again we really don't know what the discussions really entailed. Perhaps Snow also asked about Landeskog and other GMs asked about Barrie and/or Johnson.

Back to my original thought. Is all this speculation real? Or is it because Duchene is the sexy topic? Or is it because Duchene didn't handle the rumors as well as the other and therefore everyone is piling on? I suppose it may be a little bit of all of the above.

Duchene handled the rumors exceptionally well. He did the right things and said all the right things until late in the season when he was basically fed up and prepared to move on.

It's the sexy story because usually in a scenario like this that drags out so long it's due to the player wanting out and demanding the trade but the team holding firm for value.
In this case it's the team publicly putting the player out there, the GM woefully handling PR and leaving Duchene twisting in the wind and seemingly not sure of what he wants.

It's so dysfunctional that you have to continue to talk about it. Then of course you have teams that are pissed at Sakic and letting the press hammer him for their perceived moving of the goal posts and toying with them.

 

[JoemAvs]

It would be nice to have someone in charge, who could, you know, be the facilitator of a trade. Not just waiting for offers, declining offers, and then going silent when asked for feedback.

DUBAS YOU COULD'VE BEEN DABOSS

Well to be fair I don't think Sakic has ever negotiated another GM down from anything either if he wanted a player from them. So he probably thinks that is the way to do business.

Or do you think that San Jose started off asking for a 1st for Stuart and Sakic negotiated him down?

Or that Burke wanted more than a 2nd for Berra?

Or that Boston wanted the Avs to add to Downie for the guy they wanted to get rid off in Talbot?

Or that Shero wanted more than a 3rd for Gelinas?


I have a feeling that Sakic does not like that whole negotating part of being a GM. Felt that way for a long time now.

I think he avoids it whenever he can. He always drags his feet whenever it comes to negotiating something.

I still don't think ROR to Buf would have happened the way it did if not for Murray having a massive love affair with Ryan and pulling out all stops to get it done.

Unfortunately we don't have another GM in the league right now who is as keen on Duchene. That is why we are where we are...

 

[CalderKing21]

Well to be fair I don't think Sakic has ever negotiated another GM down from anything either if he wanted a player from them. So he probably thinks that is the way to do business.

Or do you think that San Jose started off asking for a 1st for Stuart and Sakic negotiated him down?

Or that Burke wanted more than a 2nd for Berra?

Or that Boston wanted the Avs to add to Downie for the guy they wanted to get rid off in Talbot?

Or that Shero wanted more than a 3rd for Gelinas?


I have a feeling that Sakic does not like that whole negotating part of being a GM. Felt that way for a long time now.

I think he avoids it whenever he can. He always drags his feet whenever it comes to negotiating something.

I still don't think ROR to Buf would have happened the way it did if not for Murray having a massive love affair with Ryan and pulling out all stops to get it done.

Unfortunately we don't have another GM in the league right now who is as keen on Duchene. That is why we are where we are...

You know you just ensured that I will have nightmares for a week right?

 

[madman]

Well to be fair I don't think Sakic has ever negotiated another GM down from anything either if he wanted a player from them. So he probably thinks that is the way to do business.

Or do you think that San Jose started off asking for a 1st for Stuart and Sakic negotiated him down?

Or that Burke wanted more than a 2nd for Berra?

Or that Boston wanted the Avs to add to Downie for the guy they wanted to get rid off in Talbot?

Or that Shero wanted more than a 3rd for Gelinas?


I have a feeling that Sakic does not like that whole negotating part of being a GM. Felt that way for a long time now.

I think he avoids it whenever he can. He always drags his feet whenever it comes to negotiating something.

I still don't think ROR to Buf would have happened the way it did if not for Murray having a massive love affair with Ryan and pulling out all stops to get it done.

Unfortunately we don't have another GM in the league right now who is as keen on Duchene. That is why we are where we are...

To be fair, we don't know how many of your aforementioned trade examples were actually orchestrated with Sakic on the phone... can't ignore the activity (and rumored pursuits) while Roy was around.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Well to be fair I don't think Sakic has ever negotiated another GM down from anything either if he wanted a player from them. So he probably thinks that is the way to do business.


Unfortunately we don't have another GM in the league right now who is as keen on Duchene. That is why we are where we are...

I guess flashy one dimensional offensive centers aren't the IT thing anymore. 2 way 200 ft players blah blah blah...

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I have had the same thought as well. I have raised in the past, and I am sure my viewpoint is tainted to an extent, but the media frenzy seems a bit much at times. Frankly, some media members have acted as if they are taking the matter personally.

This is not the first time that a high profile has reportedly been on the market for a period of time. But I do not recall all the emotional speculation about whether the player can continue to play for his current team, or whether the team was acting unreasonably in its trade demands.

For instance, Kevin Shattenkirk was on the market for nearly two years, and I do not recall rampant speculation about how unreasonable Armstrong was acting or if Shattenkirk was upset.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hock...cle_4726e9a6-f315-5585-a1de-5f7b60f3bce3.html

Shattenkirk never gave up. He in fact had a career year.

And there has got to be a reason for all the reports about Sakic and his asking price, but nobody previously. It's either true, or everyone is conspiring against Sakic to make him look like an idiot. The latter seems pretty absurd. The safe bet is that Sakic is in fact being unreasonable.

 

[Goulet17]

Shattenkirk never gave up. He in fact had a career year.

And there has got to be a reason for all the reports about Sakic and his asking price, but nobody previously. It's either true, or everyone is conspiring against Sakic to make him look like an idiot. The latter seems pretty absurd. The safe bet is that Sakic is in fact being unreasonable.

I am not sure it is absurd when parties on the other side have a vested interest in putting pressure on Sakic. It is part of a negotiating process.

I do wonder if Duchene's end to the year and his WCs are fueling this to an extent. It presents an image of a player that is either quitting or who can't handle the pressure. But if that is the perception, why would anyone want to trade for him?

 

[tigervixxxen]

One thing I find interesting is that Sakic said anyone is potentially available except MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Jost and for some reason the press and everyone else has run with the Duchene is being traded rumors yet the Landeskog is getting traded rumors are pretty silent; specially lately. There's a few Barrie is getting traded rumors and almost no Johnson is getting traded rumors yet Duchene rumors are all over the media, blogs, and message boards.

I wonder if that's because Duchene rumors are more sexy to report and talk about. Or, because of how Duchene handled the rumors initially vs Landeskog, Barrie, et al. Or, perhaps there really is smoke where there's fire.

I don't know if anyone knows for sure but I find it a bit eyebrow raising why Duchene is in all the rumors.

Shortest contract. Once Duchene goes the Barrie rumors will heat up.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Well to be fair I don't think Sakic has ever negotiated another GM down from anything either if he wanted a player from them. So he probably thinks that is the way to do business.

Or do you think that San Jose started off asking for a 1st for Stuart and Sakic negotiated him down?

Or that Burke wanted more than a 2nd for Berra?

Or that Boston wanted the Avs to add to Downie for the guy they wanted to get rid off in Talbot?

Or that Shero wanted more than a 3rd for Gelinas?


I have a feeling that Sakic does not like that whole negotating part of being a GM. Felt that way for a long time now.

I think he avoids it whenever he can. He always drags his feet whenever it comes to negotiating something.

I still don't think ROR to Buf would have happened the way it did if not for Murray having a massive love affair with Ryan and pulling out all stops to get it done.

Unfortunately we don't have another GM in the league right now who is as keen on Duchene. That is why we are where we are...

Yup, I agree. I think the story was even Calgary asked for a second for Berra, Sakic said we'll get back to you and then called him at TDL and said ok. I doubt he negotiated on Wilson either, that was probably Nashville's ask. It's like he has no idea that when giving picks away you can make them conditional or swap a higher pick for a lower pick, something! He's also retained on several players he's given away. Talbot, McLeod, Iggy and never gets retention in players he gets. I think MacFarland is the one that negotiates contracts since he's the only one in the FO with a scolastic background.

 

[JoemAvs]

Shortest contract. Once Duchene goes the Barrie rumors will heat up.

Problem is that the "perfect" time to trade him probably is right now when he still has 3 years on his contract.

Maybe wait for a strong start for him to the season and then cash in but arguably one of the overlooked factors in this whole Duchene drama is that it puts the Barrie situation on the shelf for now. Odds are that the Avs don't even think about the Barrie situation.

Which is not good given how allergic GMs seem to be to players with limited term when it comes to giving up the goods for them...

Also Barrie will want to cash in and with us spending #4 on Makar, there probably is no space for Barrie on a huge, longterm deal...

This reminds me a bit of last season. Sakic clearly drafted Jost with the intention of him being the eventual Duchene replacement. Then he did not like the offers for Duchene and decided to sit on his hands instead of proactively pulling the trigger to fill some other organisational holes. That was when Duchene still had 3 seasons left.

Now we drafted Makar with the intention of basically filling Barries spot (PPQB, RHD offensive - D). Barrie still has 3 years left. Avs will keep him.

Lets just hope it turns out better this time around.


The "fun" thing about this is that Barrie and Duchene were and probably still are my favorite Avalanche players right now. But I really don't think that holding onto them right now is the way to go...

EDIT:

@ CalderKing21:

You are welcome .

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I am not sure it is absurd when parties on the other side have a vested interest in putting pressure on Sakic. It is part of a negotiating process.

I do wonder if Duchene's end to the year and his WCs are fueling this to an extent. It presents an image of a player that is either quitting or who can't handle the pressure. But if that is the perception, why would anyone want to trade for him?

It's absurd to think there is some conspiracy between numerous GMs, Duchene's agent and media members to make Sakic look unreasonable. If Sakic was being reasonable there is no way numerous GMs are going to play these games. 1 of them would have laughed at them for playing games while he actually made a fair offer. Seriously, if teams realistically want a guy who has multiple suitors they know they are going to have to come with a legit offer (only a complete moron, like Habs GM who tried to play games with Radulov, would pull such a tactic). If Sakic was being reasonable then Duchene's agent wouldn't be upset at him.

If it was just part of the negotiation process then why have we not seen this tactic in the past? As you said, you don't recall all the speculation in other high profile cases that went on for long.

 

[Metallo]

Whatever Sakic is doing, these GM seem VERY interested in Duchene. Otherwise they would'nt cry to the media like they do.

 

[Freudian]

The reason Duchene is still a story because by any reasonable logic it would be better for both team and player to move on. On most other teams Duchene would already have been traded.

On Avs, who knows. It's already passed all natural pressure points so I wouldn't put it past Sakic to hang on to Duchene now, holding out for that miracle call that never will come. The ball is already on the floor. Can't drop it much more than that.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Eklund is never going to get the fine details right (I think he was counting RFAs to the contracts thing, still wrong as that would be 38)... that is just who he is. The point of what he was saying is spot on. Yet another voice out there stating how Sakic operates, and it directly lines up with what I've heard over and over again. This front office is a gong show and the laughing stock of the NHL.

On Eklund talking to players... is it that unrealistic with Sadowski working there?

Hadn't thought of that, and I'm slightly less skeptical about him than others. I just believe that if he does have any inside info it's going to come from teams in the East that think they've been insulted.

I think the majority of information hes fed and where it comes from would lead to being heavily biased.

So far aside from the package you spoke about with Ottawa. I haven't seen anything leaked that we should even remotely consider taking, and that last piece of the deal and it's quality is often left as a mystery. That stinks of spin tactics.

It's been Murray +

Or Hamonic +

Well that plus matters a whole hell of a lot, and it's far to convenient that it's always left unsaid.

 

[bohlmeister]

The reason Duchene is still a story because by any reasonable logic it would be better for both team and player to move on. On most other teams Duchene would already have been traded.

On Avs, who knows. It's already passed all natural pressure points so I wouldn't put it past Sakic to hang on to Duchene now, holding out for that miracle call that never will come. The ball is already on the floor. Can't drop it much more than that.

Sure can. When he starts pouting and playing like crap, it will force Sakic's hand. Then Duchene will be traded for peanuts. Or be kept until there is a holdout and it gets even messier in the locker room and the press.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Hadn't thought of that, and I'm slightly less skeptical about him than others. I just believe that if he does have any inside info it's going to come from teams in the East that think they've been insulted.

I think the majority of information hes fed and where it comes from would lead to being heavily biased.

So far aside from the package you spoke about with Ottawa. I haven't seen anything leaked that we should even remotely consider taking, and that last piece of the deal and it's quality is often left as a mystery. That stinks of spin tactics.

It's been Murray +

Or Hamonic +


Well that plus matters a whole hell of a lot, and it's far to convenient that it's always left unsaid.

I agree with you CA. This is the exact scenario that is going on and no other. It's the other teams that try to give us ****** piece as a main piece and the rest of the pieces are prospects with a big question marks on them. Sakic does not have any options at this time but to keep Duchene rather then trade him for peanuts. We got to remember here that we are trading Matt Duchene here who is our best trade-able asset and still could be a very good top 6 winger for years to come.