Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXV

[StayAtHomeAv]

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Shvyrev - Jost - Andrighetto
Greer - Compher - Smirnov
Morrison - Beaudin - Henry
Nieto - Grigorenko - Grimaldi
Henley - Nantel - Petryk
Elson - Girard - Barron
Ranford - Olhaver -Storm

Zadorov - Timmins
Bigras - Makar
Lindholm - Meloche
Boikov - Mironov
Geertsen - Siemens
Leivermann - Clurman
Anderson

Martin
Kvaca
Werner

The future is looking pretty promising. A 2-way #1 LD would really make the D fall in place.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Probably would be a good time to stop wasting time on Duchene and looking at who we'll be picking up in FA considering the amount of roster space. There's $20M+ in salary space, the only RFA/UFAs that should be brought back imo are Andrighetto, Nieto, Zads, and maybe Siemens or a couple of the AHL RFAs. That's more than enough room imo to get a backup who can challenge Varly for a spot (Steve Mason please) and a couple cheap 1-year forwards that compete like Sam Gagner or Kris Versteeg. There should definitely be more than enough space to take on a cap dump and get some 2018 picks unless they're either too cheap to or Sakic's too lazy to.

This isn't some typical start from scratch rebuild. MacKinnon is one of the key pieces of it and he is here now, about to be 22. They need to have a ~2 year plan to improve, not a 4-5 year plan.

Which is exactly why we're in this mess. MacKinnon isn't exactly Auston Matthews. He has shown no indication that he's deserving being quickly surrounded by good players or that we should accelerate a rebuild because of him. I'm looking at the rebuild in the context of us being a bad 48 point team, not in the context of when MacKinnon enters his prime.

 

[tucker3434]

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Shvyrev - Jost - Andrighetto
Greer - Compher - Smirnov
Morrison - Beaudin - Henry
Nieto - Grigorenko - Grimaldi
Henley - Nantel - Petryk
Elson - Girard - Barron
Ranford - Olhaver -Storm

Zadorov - Timmins
Bigras - Makar
Lindholm - Meloche
Boikov - Mironov
Geertsen - Siemens
Leivermann - Clurman
Anderson

Martin
Kvaca
Werner

The future is looking pretty promising. A 2-way #1 LD would really make the D fall in place.

That and a whole bunch of wingers. It's a very have or have-not group on the wings.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

That's what we should do with our cap space. But you know, we got GM Joe.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'll say this against trading Duchene for a purely futures package...


If a team offers something crazy sure, maybe you do it. That being said, how much of MacKinnon's best years are we planning to see wasted? If you target 2018 picks they will be, reasonably, making an NHL impact ~3 years post draft? That means you're looking at 2020 by the time those selections may be in the league and making an impact. If we're talking 2018 picks in the 15-22 range like the Isles and Flames, you could be looking at 3 years minimum before they make a serious impact (2 years in junior, 1-2 years in the AHL / NHL getting adjusted). Are you folks advocating future packages composed of 2018 picks all cool with this team not having those pieces making an impact until around 2021, assuming they even turn out? MacKinnon will be 25 then - AKA he will be Matt Duchene. Landeskog will be very late 20s. EJ will be done. I'm all for hoping our own 2018 1st makes a big impact assuming it's high and looking at it as a potentially future core piece, but when you're looking at the range of the Isles and Flames picks we're talking prospects that probably need years of development. I have a feeling that maybe just recreates this whole cycle over again.


This isn't some typical start from scratch rebuild. MacKinnon is one of the key pieces of it and he is here now, about to be 22. They need to have a ~2 year plan to improve, not a 4-5 year plan.

Mackinnon is still only 21(22 for next season) even if we are bad for 2 more years lets say, Mack would only be 24 for that start of that 3rd season afterwards. I think that's still easily young enough that it shouldn't be something to worry about. Mack being so young when he was drafted really benefits us here IMO.



And to add to that, this is why I am an advocate/supporter of trading both Landeskog and Barrie in the next couple of years as well. Probably not this summer like we should with Duchene but soon. Keep them around for a couple of years while we transition to the younger core as the "vets" on the team, they should also rebuild on their trade value as well over that time. Then in a year or two years time you reassess what we have in the system, and potentially start look at trading one or both of them. Barrie especially I think in 2 years from now will need to be moved. Between Makar, Timmins, Mironov, and Meloche I think we're gonna have a tonne of depth on that right side and Barrie will be the logical one to move for help elsewhere.


Landeskog is more tricky but I think we would have to at least entertain the idea of moving him.


But to me, the thought of going into next years draft with a Top 3 pick(Our own and Karma actually gets us in the Top 3 next year), as well as another two ~15th overall picks in a very deep draft would be way to enticing not to move Duchene for that package if it gets offered.

 

[Pacman33]

Just spit balling here. Curious if duchene would have been moved if heiskanen was on the board. There was that report that said avs want to wait to see who is on the board when we pick. So dont know if they care as much as us about handedness but is it possible if we got the lefty in miro that sakic would have felt better about a deal around pulock or fabbro

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

That and a whole bunch of wingers. It's a very have or have-not group on the wings.

Lando and Rantanen take up 2 of the top4.

Between Ghetto, Compher, Smirnov, Greer, Morrison, Beaudin and Nieto I'm sure we got the entire 3rd line cover.

And I've got faith one of the above can be at least #6 in the top 6, leaving just 1 spot in the top9.

Shvyrev is the wild card. If we can get him over and he lives up to potential there is our final top6 player.

 

[JoemAvs]

I'll say this against trading Duchene for a purely futures package...


If a team offers something crazy sure, maybe you do it. That being said, how much of MacKinnon's best years are we planning to see wasted? If you target 2018 picks they will be, reasonably, making an NHL impact ~3 years post draft? That means you're looking at 2020 by the time those selections may be in the league and making an impact. If we're talking 2018 picks in the 15-22 range like the Isles and Flames, you could be looking at 3 years minimum before they make a serious impact (2 years in junior, 1-2 years in the AHL / NHL getting adjusted). Are you folks advocating future packages composed of 2018 picks all cool with this team not having those pieces making an impact until around 2021, assuming they even turn out? MacKinnon will be 25 then - AKA he will be Matt Duchene. Landeskog will be very late 20s. EJ will be done. I'm all for hoping our own 2018 1st makes a big impact assuming it's high and looking at it as a potentially future core piece, but when you're looking at the range of the Isles and Flames picks we're talking prospects that probably need years of development. I have a feeling that maybe just recreates this whole cycle over again.


This isn't some typical start from scratch rebuild. MacKinnon is one of the key pieces of it and he is here now, about to be 22. They need to have a ~2 year plan to improve, not a 4-5 year plan.

IMO there is no way to build this team into a sustainable contender in 2 years...

Makar alone has to be a key piece for that to happen and he probably won't even be in the NHL at this point...

Duchene and Barrie both probably have 0 desire to ink another contract with the Avalanche and probably will have to be traded by then as well creating new holes...


Yeah it sucks that Mac aside from EJ and Landy (who are ideal for sheltering the next wave) will be the oldest "new core" guy aside from EJ and Landy but 25-26 is still not that old...

Mac is under contract until he turns 28. We really can't afford to not be a perenial playoff team by then. So we better try to do this right now and make sure we don't rush it because if we fail with this "mini-rebuild" or "retool" as well, we will probably on the hunt for the next #1 C by then...

 

[tucker3434]

Lando and Rantanen take up 2 of the top4.

Between Ghetto, Compher, Smirnov, Greer, Morrison, Beaudin and Nieto I'm sure we got the entire 3rd line cover.

And I've got faith one of the above can be at least #6 in the top 6, leaving just 1 spot in the top9.

Shvyrev is the wild card. If we can get him over and he lives up to potential there is our final top6 player.

Yeah, we could just use some more 40-50 point potential guys, solid 2nd liners. On the plus side, that's the type of player you can pull from the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I'll say this against trading Duchene for a purely futures package...


If a team offers something crazy sure, maybe you do it. That being said, how much of MacKinnon's best years are we planning to see wasted? If you target 2018 picks they will be, reasonably, making an NHL impact ~3 years post draft? That means you're looking at 2020 by the time those selections may be in the league and making an impact. If we're talking 2018 picks in the 15-22 range like the Isles and Flames, you could be looking at 3 years minimum before they make a serious impact (2 years in junior, 1-2 years in the AHL / NHL getting adjusted). Are you folks advocating future packages composed of 2018 picks all cool with this team not having those pieces making an impact until around 2021, assuming they even turn out? MacKinnon will be 25 then - AKA he will be Matt Duchene. Landeskog will be very late 20s. EJ will be done. I'm all for hoping our own 2018 1st makes a big impact assuming it's high and looking at it as a potentially future core piece, but when you're looking at the range of the Isles and Flames picks we're talking prospects that probably need years of development. I have a feeling that maybe just recreates this whole cycle over again.


This isn't some typical start from scratch rebuild. MacKinnon is one of the key pieces of it and he is here now, about to be 22. They need to have a ~2 year plan to improve, not a 4-5 year plan.

Personally, if joe gets a heavily future based package for duchene, then I would hope it could be flipped for a LHD solution.

There HAS to be at least 1 team willing to move a dman that satisfies the criteria with some good futures.

 

[Avs44]

Personally, if joe gets a heavily future based package for duchene, then I would hope it could be flipped for a LHD solution.

There HAS to be at least 1 team willing to move a dman that satisfies the criteria with some good futures.

The only one I can possibly think of would be Minnesota and Brodin. However, we are one of the last teams in the league they want to flip a Dman to, and Scandella is who they actually want to move, and he's 27. I can't think of anyone else who wants to move a <25 top four defender for futures.

 

[Ceremony]

So how soon after 5 Eastern tomorrow will we know that Grigorenko is on his way to Yukon?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Personally, if joe gets a heavily future based package for duchene, then I would hope it could be flipped for a LHD solution.

There HAS to be at least 1 team willing to move a dman that satisfies the criteria with some good futures.

That's just it.


Nobody wants to move Dmen that actually qualify as a legitimate solution to our problems.


I mean, we might be able to land a Brodin(Doubtful given its Minny), but does he really solve our issues? I love Brodin but I dont think he does. He's a great #3 but not a #1 guy or even Top pairing really. If we get a futures based trade for Duchene the only way I'm moving any of it is if it's for a truly elite #1D, and those guys just dont get traded(Which is why drafting Makar was huge).



Otherwise, I'd rather we just continue to roll with Zadorov and let Bigras come up into a Top 4 role next year.



That said. If we made that Duchene trade theoretically for 2 2018 1sts, Beauvillier, and another 2018 2nd.

I would move every one of those and significantly more if a Hampus Lindholm, Noah Hanifin, Zach Werenski, or Ivan Provorov ever became available on the market.


Actually, I would even move the Avs 2018 1st unprotected for any one of those guys with the exception of Hanifin(But I'd happily move CGY 1st + NYI 1st + Bigras + instead).




Those are the only guys I think I'd be willing to move an insane package for. Otherwise I keep the picks, go all in on Defense again next year in the draft instead.

 

[seafoam]

So just to clarify, two of Pelech/Salo/Toews/Wotherspoon + 1st, 2nd, and Kulemin (cap reasons) wouldn't interest Sakic, right?

Pelech is NHL ready and the other three are all playing pro hockey.

I'm not trying to be insulting, generally just curious?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So just to clarify, two of Pelech/Salo/Toews/Wotherspoon + 1st, 2nd, and Kulemin (cap reasons) wouldn't interest Sakic, right?

Pelech is NHL ready and the other three are all playing pro hockey.

I'm not trying to be insulting, generally just curious?

Definitely not.

A couple of B prospects, a mid-late 1st and a mid-late 2nd for Duchene? AND we have to take a Cap dump back?

If Snow had Hamonic on the table along with a prospect + 1st before, why not just give up those assets he acquired from Hamonic for Duchene.


CGY 1st + CGY 2nd + NYI 1st + prospect.

 

[hughdreamz]

Our D depth is looking alright. I would sign Kulikov for 2 years and do the below.

Juulsen + '18 1st + Galchenyuk.

Who knows if that's offered now though

 

[JoemAvs]

Our D depth is looking alright. I would sign Kulikov for 2 years and do the below.

Juulsen + '18 1st + Galchenyuk.

Who knows if that's offered now though

Pretty sure it isn't. Would blow every other deal out of the water right now.

@seafoam:

No.

It IMO will take one of your top 3 prospects (Beauvillier makes the most sense given how adamant Snow seems to be when it comes to not trading Barzal and the fact that he already is a "roster player" in the NHL right now and Sakic probably wants atleast one of these to point to when Duchene is putting up the points for the Islanders next season) + those 2 1st round picks.

Probably add Kulemin as a capdump to make CdH + Duchene work under the cap and another piece to offset that (prospect or 2nd round pick).

Really don't think there is a chance Sakic takes any less than that.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Our D depth is looking alright. I would sign Kulikov for 2 years and do the below.

Juulsen + '18 1st + Galchenyuk.

Who knows if that's offered now though

I don't think the Habs would do that. I'm fine with Kulikov if he's not signed longer than two years.

 

[tigervixxxen]

We need a new thread, I think.

Yeah, letting the inmates run the asylum here and holy cow! I'll get one up soon

TheFourthPeriod isn't reliable I thought?

They have a real source with the agent, so if you filter it through that angle.

Tomorrow at 5 pm EST is the deadline for qualifying RFAs.

Only ones worth qualifying are Andrigettho, Nieto, Grigorenko, Grimaldi, Zadorov

The others can walk via UFA for all I care: Weircoich, Girard, Gelinas, Elson, Bourke, Henley, G. Bourque, Siemens

Girard, Elson and Henley should return to SA.

Agree, they need to keep some good AHL guys. I do not want a bunch of mercenaries again, start building an actual team down there. Henley is a must return for me. Girard was solid. Elson was injured nearly all year. He might be decent but that's usually a move on for the Avs. If they want to bring back Siemens and Bourque for AHL roles that's fine with me. Not protecting Grigo means they are done with him IMO.

So how soon after 5 Eastern tomorrow will we know that Grigorenko is on his way to Yukon?

Not tomorrow. But as soon as someone feels like reporting it on Monday.

 

[AvsMakar08]

“We’re open to ways to improve our club but there’s nothing to talk about really. Matt’s a great hockey player. Why wouldn’t you want him on our team? We need to add skill and speed to our lineup. When it comes to bringing in a younger guy, we’re deciding on the direction to go. Are we there yet? We’re building to get there. That’s not an overnight thing but we love the younger guys we do have,” Sakic told BSNDenver"

From what Sakic said yesterday, it sounds like he might be able to trade Matt for futures package but his asking price is the same as it was so who knows if Matt will even be traded if no one matches what Joe wants. Maybe Joe will just re-sign Matt after a bounce back season next season.

 

[Pokecheque]

As I said on Twitter, this ridiculousness needs to end. If they aren't getting what they want, then pull him off the goddamn market, or accept that the market for him isn't going to improve and make the best deal possible. To publicly goad the rest of the league into ponying up something better isn't a good look for Sakic. He's simply not media-savvy enough to pull that off.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'll give it until July 1 but after that I might not be able to read this thread any longer. I can't take another year or longer of the speculation.

This says Avs were offered Hamonic and a first for Duchene.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hocke...-traded-to-calgary-for-draft-picks-1.13761218

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Damn, anyone else feel like Sakic should have taken the deal with Islanders? Hamonic, 1st round pick and +. Then trade Hamonic to Calgary for 1st and 2x 2nds.

I don't think he would ever get better offer.

I know It's just picks, but I would have been more than happy..

 

[lonelybadger]

2 firsts and 2 seconds for Duchene would be pretty handy.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I'll say this against trading Duchene for a purely futures package...


If a team offers something crazy sure, maybe you do it. That being said, how much of MacKinnon's best years are we planning to see wasted? If you target 2018 picks they will be, reasonably, making an NHL impact ~3 years post draft? That means you're looking at 2020 by the time those selections may be in the league and making an impact. If we're talking 2018 picks in the 15-22 range like the Isles and Flames, you could be looking at 3 years minimum before they make a serious impact (2 years in junior, 1-2 years in the AHL / NHL getting adjusted). Are you folks advocating future packages composed of 2018 picks all cool with this team not having those pieces making an impact until around 2021, assuming they even turn out? MacKinnon will be 25 then - AKA he will be Matt Duchene. Landeskog will be very late 20s. EJ will be done. I'm all for hoping our own 2018 1st makes a big impact assuming it's high and looking at it as a potentially future core piece, but when you're looking at the range of the Isles and Flames picks we're talking prospects that probably need years of development. I have a feeling that maybe just recreates this whole cycle over again.


This isn't some typical start from scratch rebuild. MacKinnon is one of the key pieces of it and he is here now, about to be 22. They need to have a ~2 year plan to improve, not a 4-5 year plan.

Well, If MacKinnon keeps his current level it doesn't matter If we get picks back or some good player. The thing is, this team will never win Stanley Cup UNLESS MacKinnon becomes the beast everyone expected him to become. MacKinnon needs to become another Seguin, otherwise we will be doomed FOREVER.

One player can dictate our future. I think MacKinnon is that player. Either we have something special in our hands (and our future) or we are going to suck forever, even with him, in that case we need full re-build.

This team needs one super star(for good start), level of Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Seguin, Thornton(okay little younger version, but you get the point) etc etc.

MacKinnon still has that potential to become one.