Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXV

[The Merchant]

Man, Snow is just as b***** as his team's fanbase.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I like their potential defensive prospects (Fleury and/or Bean) as well as some of their forward prospects (Roy and/or Gauthier). I think they have every bit as much in terms of the Islanders (I would argue more) and I think they blow Nashville out of the water. I don't think Nashville's pool is great now that many have graduated. I like Fabbro and Kamenev, but I have questions after that. I also have real questions about Fiala and his injury, although he reportedly has already begun light skating.

Of those teams top end packages I like the Islanders the best followed by Nashville. I don't really like Carolina's futures only package especially now that the 12th O/A pick is gone.

Two 2018 firsts plus Bllv or Barzal and maybe another plus

Fabbro + Kamenev + 2018 first

Fleury + Gauthier + 2018 first

I mainly not that high on Roy/Gauthier. So I tend to like the complete package of the other two teams more. Or at least what is more likely. I don't buy that Carolina has more of a chance for a higher draft pick either. With their coaching, and better goaltending (although all three teams have a weakness there) I don't see Carolina having much if any disadvantage.

I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

 

[shadow1]

We know how unreliable rumors are, but it sounds like the best, or possibly only, deal Sakic had on the table was Travis Hamonic and a 1st round pick for Matt Duchene.

It's easy to see why that deal is not very appetizing, but a lot of fans still want to nail Sakic to the damn cross.

Just a question - is there really *that* much difference between Hamonic and a guy like Karl Alzner?

Yes, I realize Alzner is older and will command more in free agency. But the point is that if Colorado is looking for a run-of-the-mill top 4 defenseman, they have amongst the most cap space in the NHL to go get one.

Then, they could still move Duchene for futures and the overall net gain would be more.

Not saying that situation will come about, just trying to highlight the only deal Sakic probably had was mediocre.

 

[CobraAcesS]

We know how unreliable rumors are, but it sounds like the best, or possibly only, deal Sakic had on the table was Travis Hamonic and a 1st round pick for Matt Duchene.

It's easy to see why that deal is not very appetizing, but a lot of fans still want to nail Sakic to the damn cross.

Just a question - is there really *that* much difference between Hamonic and a guy like Karl Alzner?

Yes, I realize Alzner is older and will command more in free agency. But the point is that if Colorado is looking for a run-of-the-mill top 4 defenseman, they have amongst the most cap space in the NHL to go get one.

Then, they could still move Duchene for futures and the overall net gain would be more.

Not saying that situation will come about, just trying to highlight the only deal Sakic probably had was mediocre.

I'm not sure if people are reading it as just Hamonic + 2018 first, but I think that's also part of the problem. People are assuming that third piece was a big piece. It could have been nothing to speak of, and that's why the mouth didn't feed that part to the mouth piece. Much more fun to let people use their imagination.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

We know how unreliable rumors are, but it sounds like the best, or possibly only, deal Sakic had on the table was Travis Hamonic and a 1st round pick for Matt Duchene.

It's easy to see why that deal is not very appetizing, but a lot of fans still want to nail Sakic to the damn cross.

Just a question - is there really *that* much difference between Hamonic and a guy like Karl Alzner?

Yes, I realize Alzner is older and will command more in free agency. But the point is that if Colorado is looking for a run-of-the-mill top 4 defenseman, they have among the most cap space in the NHL to go get one.

Then, they could still move Duchene for futures and the overall net gain would be more.

Not saying that situation will come about, just trying to highlight the only deal Sakic probably had was mediocre.

Hamonic + 1st + prospect

Snow was also complaining about Sakic wanting both Barzal and Pulock, so that tells me one of them was an option.

This isn't the first deal Sakic has turned down for Duchene either.

Plus, it's multiple teams complaining about what he wants since the deadline.

Seems pretty obvious that Sakic is just being a stubborn jackass.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Hamonic + 1st + prospect

Snow was also complaining about Sakic wanting both Barzal and Pulock, so that tells me one of them was an option.

This isn't the first deal Sakic has turned down for Duchene either.

Plus, it's multiple teams complaining about what he wants since the deadline.

Seems pretty obvious that Sakic is just being a stubborn jackass.

Snow was complaining about Sakic wanting both Barzal and Pulock in reference to the same offer? Where did you see that?

I'm not making the connection here where that third piece was definitely one of Barzal or Pulock. At least not with this most recent report.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It might not have been the same.

 

[CobraAcesS]

It might not have been the same.

Well that's my point. If it was the same then why not leak the third piece and put the full amount of pressure on Sakic? If your third piece was weaker then you are better off letting people use their imaginations.

I mean we are making the assumption that there is gamesmanship going on here. Especially since Snow is fighting for Tavares and his job. So he is angling for perspective from his fan base more than anyone. We know Sakic could care less.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I'm not assuming there is gamesmanship. I'm assuming Sakic is too nutless to make a trade for anything that's not an obvious overpay, and everyone is getting fed up with it.

 

[Ararana]

I'm probably crazy in this but part of me is glad Sakic isn't coming down from his asking price. I mean, I know this situation is going from bad to worse and Duchene needs to be traded and soon. But seriously **** these teams who think we're going to give him away for whatever package happens to fit for them. **** right off with your Hamonic packages.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'm not assuming there is gamesmanship. I'm assuming Sakic is too nutless to make a trade for anything that's not an obvious overpay, and everyone is getting fed up with it.

I don't totally disagree as a whole, but in this particular situation with what I do have. I'm on Sakic's side. We have not seen a single offer leaked that we all think is fair. The only one most people think he should have taken came from Hench's comments about Ottawa from last year. So like I said I agree as a whole, but right now with what has been leaked I don't think Sakic should cave to Duchene, his agent, or any other GM.

 

[CalderKing21]

The other GMs have been operating under the assumption than Sakic is less stubborn than he really is. Now that they are learning the truth they will either up their offer to get a player they feel they need or they will look elsewhere.

If they think RNH or JvR are difference makers, I'd disagree. I'm not even sure Duchene is but I'd take him over the likes of those two any day. Supply of good forwards is somewhat limited.

From a PR and leverage standpoint...Sakic completely screwed up the potential value or rather attaining that perceived value in an easier manner.

He has only himself to blame. He basically put it other there that he was mostly interested in using Duchene. You labelled a set of guys untouchable and you shopped Duchene hard as hell. Landeskog too but no one was as rumored as Duchene and instead of coming out and saying how much you valued Duchene and forcing other teams to bring their best offer you allowed it to languish and for the noise to get louder while the offers seemingly stayed the same.

Now everyone and their mama knows you want to get rid of him and they can claim they met the parameters of your asking price and shame you in the media in an attempt to lower your demands.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm probably crazy in this but part of me is glad Sakic isn't coming down from his asking price. I mean, I know this situation is going from bad to worse and Duchene needs to be traded and soon. But seriously **** these teams who think we're going to give him away for whatever package happens to fit for them. **** right off with your Hamonic packages.

Well, from a business perspective, if no one's buying at your current price, you either gotta close up shop or lower your price. I'm obviously for the former, but he can't just keep dangling a player out there and waiting for some team to finally get desperate enough. For all the loving care he afforded Jarome Iginla, Sakic has sure treated his actual stars like crap.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I don't totally disagree as a whole, but in this particular situation with what I do have. I'm on Sakic's side. We have not seen a single offer leaked that we all think is fair. The only one most people think he should have taken came from Hench's comments about Ottawa from last year. So like I said I agree as a whole, but right now with what has been leaked I don't think Sakic should cave to Duchene, his agent, or any other GM.

What should we cave for?

What is Sakic even after?

Hamonic's return + their 1st + whatever prospects we can get is one hell of a haul. It's more than we got for RoR.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Ok, time to go to the new thread. It's beyond overdue.