Well that's just silly. He's only 20 years old who just had his first pro season.
Writing off a 20 year old former Top 5 1st is a stupid thing to do. Almost as dumb as the people who say 21 year old Mackinnon is nothing more than a 50 point player now.
Really wouldn't . Terrible idea.
None of those pieces will even have remotely the same impact as Duchene will have with the Islanders...
That is not solid.
We don't get younger. We don't land a crucial piece we need for the rebuild (26 year old middle pairing guy CDH is not that) and we will be laughed at for taking that deal for years to come.
This is the ROR deal only with Pysyk instead of Zadorov...
Really wouldn't . Terrible idea.
None of those pieces will even have remotely the same impact as Duchene will have with the Islanders...
That is not solid.
We don't get younger with the centerpiece (CDH same age as Matt). We don't land a crucial piece we need for the rebuild (26 year old middle pairing guy CDH is not that) and we will be laughed at for taking that deal for years to come.
This is the ROR deal only with Pysyk instead of Zadorov that Sabres fans were proposing over and over if I would want to compare the two.
And I think we can all agree that we are glad that we got Zads and not Pysyk....
Really wouldn't . Terrible idea.
None of those pieces will even have remotely the same impact as Duchene will have with the Islanders...
That is not solid.
We don't get younger. We don't land a crucial piece we need for the rebuild (26 year old middle pairing guy CDH is not that) and we will be laughed at for taking that deal for years to come.
This is the ROR deal only with Pysyk instead of Zadorov...
I really don't like any of those three D options from NYI. Id rather trade Duchene for somebody like Ekholm or Fowler straight up (have some convos with his agent before hand of course) than bring back a package of underwhelming players/prospects. If we're bringing back a package I want at least one high level prospect and a 2017 1st.
This is basically one of the D they can't protect anyway, a prospect that has disappointed and maybe a 1st. Does that sound good enough, really?
Don't you think if the Avs were going to get a great piece like you think they will get, that the trade would have happened already?
I mean seriously. Who's going to give up a top prospect or elite young D for a 27 year old forward who just had his worst season ever and is only 2 years away from UFA?
I say this every single time with you but I guess you'll never learn until the trade actually happens and you finally realize just how wrong you've been and how badly you've been over rating Duchene's value this entire time.
The Ror trade is the exact type of return we're going to get and expecting more is outrageous.
That's probably the best deal the Avs could hope for value wise.
If that's all the Avs can get should they keep Duchene just so they don't "lose" the deal?
Trade him at the deadline two seasons later for a first and c level prospect?
Lavoie is TVN (Sportsnet) and LeBrun is RDS (TSN).Probably would have been on RDS I'm assuming.
I don't suggest the quote originated from Gallof considering Avs asking price. Eugene Melidiot went on National TV and criticized Avs for supposedly asking for Chabot, White, and more by calling it stupid. So that is the rumoured amount based on that exchange and also on what McKenzie said many times before on TSN.Isles fan coming in peace, I would take what BD Gallof says with a grain of salt. He hasn't been close to the organization for about a decade now. The only one Islanders-specific reporter who has legitimate connections to the team is Arthur Staple.
Not getting Beauvillier or Barzal would be a horrible package if de Haan is the defender coming back.CDH + Dal Colle + NYI 1st would be a solid package from NYI.
If Fowler was on the table, and you could negotiate an extension prior to the trade, (is that possible?) I'd pull the trigger on that without hesitation. Fowler would be our top-D immediately, and Duchene would give them the offensive boost they need. Works for both sides.
Lavoie is TVN (Sportsnet) and LeBrun is RDS (TSN).
There could be a huge difference between a GM thinking he is meeting Sakic's demand and what Sakic is actually asking for.
You should probably wait and see what Sakic actually trades Duchene for before jumping off the cliff.
Yeah but that is a big if. And I am not even sure another team is allowed to officially discuss an extension prior to July 1st and I am not sure that the Ducks would want that to happen.
I don't think Fowler will be willing to sign a team friendly extension if he knows that the Ducks are offering him around.
I also don't understand why he would sign with the trainwreck that is the Avs instead of just either forcing a trade to a contender or playing out the season on a cup contender and then sign with the highest bidder....
I give this a 0.1 % chance of happening at best...
I think with the Ducks we are talking Theodore/Carlsson + prospects. (for the record which I would take over CdH+MDC+pick).
Worst case Vatanen but I really hope not.
Really don't believe Fowler would even be an option at all.
Yeah but that is a big if. And I am not even sure another team is allowed to officially discuss an extension prior to July 1st and I am not sure that the Ducks would want that to happen.
I don't think Fowler will be willing to sign a team friendly extension if he knows that the Ducks are offering him around.
I also don't understand why he would sign with the trainwreck that is the Avs instead of just either forcing a trade to a contender or playing out the season on a cup contender and than sign with the highest bidder....
I give this a 0.1 % chance of happening at best...
Lets have a look at all the past trades involving Centers of roughly the same pedigree as Duchene.
- Ryan O'reilly got Zadorov, Grigorenko, and pick #32. No elite young D or top prospect in that trade. Zadorov was a good prospect but if people are gonna say MDC isn't a Top prospect then Zadorov absolutely was not one at the time of this trade either.
- Jeff Carter returned Jack Johnson and the LAK 1st round pick. Jack Johnson is a solid 2nd pairing Dman, exactly like what CDH, Travis Hamonic, Ryan Murray etc. are. The first round pick along with Johnson was a very late 1st.
- Mike Richards returned Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, and a late 2nd round pick. In this example, Brayden Schenn was absolutely a Top prospect at the time of the trade. Wayne Simmonds however was just a below average 2nd liner or good 3rd liner. Because Schenn was a top prospec the Flyers did not return a 1st round pick. They managed to strike lightning in a bottle with Simmonds though as he's obviously developed into an elite winger now, but he wasn't one at the time and didn't even have that potential either.
- Jeff Carter round 1 trade returned Jake Voracek and the #8 overall pick. Voracek was a solid 2nd line player who was still young so had some room to grow. But he wasn't an elite piece at the time of the trade. He had been in the NHL 3 years at that point and only cracked the 50 point mark once.
- Jordan Staal was traded for the #8 pick in the draft, Brian Dumolin, and Brandon Sutter. Once again, Dumolin was a solid young D prospect, but definitely not an elite blue chipper by any means. Sutter was a good #3C but nothing more.
The continuing theme of all of these trades is pretty obvious. Not one trade had an elite young D in the return. The only trade that even involved a Top prospect was the Mike Richards trade and in that they didn't get a 1st round pick out of it. Not to mention Mike Richards was also coming off a 66 point season while also being one of the very best 2-way Centers in the game at the time.
I think it's also pretty easy to say that out of all the above listed trades, every single one of them(With the exception of Staal) involved a Center with more value than what Duchene has right now. Carter and Richards were both established 65-70 point players with great two way games. ROR was also a 55-60 point game with an elite 2 way game.
Duchene on the other hand just had a season to forget and is two years away from UFA.
CDH + 1st + Dal Colle is absolutely in line with these other trades. It's more value then CBJ got for moving Carter and IMO that is the closest comparable to Duchene's current situation.
Expecting something like Hanifin, or Murray + Dubois, CDH + Barzal +, or even Sergachev + 1st +, etc. etc. is just not going to happen.
The sad thing is when the trade doe happen and it's in line with all of these prior trades. All of you guys are going to ***** and complain even further about what a terrible job Sakic has done when in reality he will have done the exact same as many GMs prior to him have done in the same situation.
[...]
Lets see´:
First of all you are omitting the most recent comparable in RyJo who returned exactly what we want. A young potential #1 D.
Yes RyJo most likely had more value than Duchene but a guy like Hanifin for example is also not as good of a prospect as Jones so that kind of evens it out a bit.
Also that ROR bit is laughable and a bit shocking coming from an Avs fan. Maybe you weren't around but Zadorov was regarded a blue chip prospect back then.
Think closer to Sergachev than to CdH....
Sabres fans really, really did not want to give him up and wanted to build their D around Zads - Risto toppairing...
Yeah most of those guys went for high picks or other forwards.
The only one that didn't was Carter v.2.0 but they heavily lost that trade and just wanted to really move on from a huge misunderstanding.
Also JJ back then >> DeHaan now when it comes to value. Closest comparable would probably be Murray.
Murray + prospect + 1st is a deal I could see happening. It would suck because I think we would be on the losing side of the deal just like CBJ was with Carter but depending on the prospect, I wouldn't crucify Sakic for it.
But that is the bare minimum I could maybe stomach personally.
Richards returned the best prospect not in the NHL + a young, established NHL 2nd/3rd line powerforward.
So we are talking Chabot/McAvoy (or maybe Strome/Pulju if you want to go with a forward) + a young Wayne Simmonds.
Richards was better than Duchene was but I would be happy with the prospect alone. No need for Simmonds.
Jeff Carter round #1 was an incredible deal for the Flyers.
Voracek was the #7 overall pick who put up 50 and 46 points in the NHL before he was traded at the ripe age of 22. Together with the #8 overall pick.
Yeah I gladly take a deal like that. Max Domi + #7 overall for Duchene?
Yes. Please. I'll settle for Dvorak + #7 to cover the difference between Carter and Duchene.
Jordan Staal who had one year left and who everyone and their mother knew would only sign with the Canes?
Got the #8 overall pick, a somewhat highly touted established 3rd line center with some potential as well as a decent D prospect?
Yes ok. I would maybe do #8, Girgensons + Guhle for Duchene. IMO Duchene > Staal in value but I would be willing to settle.
Thanks for proving my point that CdH + MDC + #15 is a terrible deal for the Avs.