Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXI

[Avs44]

I have no interest in Pulock as the D for Duchene. His defense is a serious question mark. What makes him unique is his shot...and that doesn't guarantee a top four NHL defender, or anything close to it. Look at Gelinas.

 

[tigervixxxen]

MDC isn't trash but we are not going to value him as a top prospect back in a deal, that is silly.

 

[Goulet17]

Well that's just silly. He's only 20 years old who just had his first pro season.


Writing off a 20 year old former Top 5 1st is a stupid thing to do. Almost as dumb as the people who say 21 year old Mackinnon is nothing more than a 50 point player now.

IMO, it is not dumb if you have watched him play. I don't like his game, he is as soft as can be.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Really wouldn't . Terrible idea.

None of those pieces will even have remotely the same impact as Duchene will have with the Islanders...

That is not solid.

We don't get younger. We don't land a crucial piece we need for the rebuild (26 year old middle pairing guy CDH is not that) and we will be laughed at for taking that deal for years to come.

This is the ROR deal only with Pysyk instead of Zadorov...

Don't you think if the Avs were going to get a great piece like you think they will get, that the trade would have happened already?


I mean seriously. Who's going to give up a top prospect or elite young D for a 27 year old forward who just had his worst season ever and is only 2 years away from UFA?



I say this every single time with you but I guess you'll never learn until the trade actually happens and you finally realize just how wrong you've been and how badly you've been over rating Duchene's value this entire time.


The Ror trade is the exact type of return we're going to get and expecting more is outrageous.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Really wouldn't . Terrible idea.

None of those pieces will even have remotely the same impact as Duchene will have with the Islanders...

That is not solid.

We don't get younger with the centerpiece (CDH same age as Matt). We don't land a crucial piece we need for the rebuild (26 year old middle pairing guy CDH is not that) and we will be laughed at for taking that deal for years to come.

This is the ROR deal only with Pysyk instead of Zadorov that Sabres fans were proposing over and over if I would want to compare the two.

And I think we can all agree that we are glad that we got Zads and not Pysyk....

That's probably the best deal the Avs could hope for value wise.

If that's all the Avs can get should they keep Duchene just so they don't "lose" the deal?

Trade him at the deadline two seasons later for a first and c level prospect?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I really don't like any of those three D options from NYI. Id rather trade Duchene for somebody like Ekholm or Fowler straight up (have some convos with his agent before hand of course) than bring back a package of underwhelming players/prospects. If we're bringing back a package I want at least one high level prospect and a 2017 1st.

 

[Iracundia]

Really wouldn't . Terrible idea.

None of those pieces will even have remotely the same impact as Duchene will have with the Islanders...

That is not solid.

We don't get younger. We don't land a crucial piece we need for the rebuild (26 year old middle pairing guy CDH is not that) and we will be laughed at for taking that deal for years to come.

This is the ROR deal only with Pysyk instead of Zadorov...

I'm with you on this

For me the best teams for a MD trade are

1. Carolina (Bean, Fleury, 12th, Roy)


3. Columbus (Murray, 24th, Jenner, Milano, 2018 1st)


In the brackets are pieces of interest.

Mtl, Ott and Car move to the top if Serg, Chabot or Hanifin are in a deal but that seems to be a pipe dream.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I really don't like any of those three D options from NYI. Id rather trade Duchene for somebody like Ekholm or Fowler straight up (have some convos with his agent before hand of course) than bring back a package of underwhelming players/prospects. If we're bringing back a package I want at least one high level prospect and a 2017 1st.

I'd love the idea of Fowler with an immediate extension. I agree with your whole post though.

 

[seafoam]

This is basically one of the D they can't protect anyway, a prospect that has disappointed and maybe a 1st. Does that sound good enough, really?

The Islanders can protect all five defenseman if they want, nobody knows what is going to happen. I don't necessarily agree that Dal Colle has been disappointing. Slower development sure, but he outscored Anthony Mantha in their respective rookie seasons in the AHL. Development is not linear for all prospects.

Acquiring a Hamonic or de Haan would be the first step for the Avalanche, not the only one, is what my point is.

 

[JoemAvs]

Don't you think if the Avs were going to get a great piece like you think they will get, that the trade would have happened already?


I mean seriously. Who's going to give up a top prospect or elite young D for a 27 year old forward who just had his worst season ever and is only 2 years away from UFA?



I say this every single time with you but I guess you'll never learn until the trade actually happens and you finally realize just how wrong you've been and how badly you've been over rating Duchene's value this entire time.


The Ror trade is the exact type of return we're going to get and expecting more is outrageous.

This deal is significantly worse than the ROR deal. Quality >> Quantity. And this deal does not have much qualtity. Where is the Zadorov level piece?
I don't care about the rest but this offer really lacks that piece.

Look at what that Islanders reporter wrote. I do think Sakics asking price has been immensely high so far. He will have to come back down from this.

But look around a bit.

There are about 5-10 teams that really want or even need (to save their GMs job) to upgrade their center position right now.

And there are very limited options. IMO Duchene still holds way more value than mid-1sts in a weak draft and meh 2nd liner / B+ prospects.

That's probably the best deal the Avs could hope for value wise.

If that's all the Avs can get should they keep Duchene just so they don't "lose" the deal?

Trade him at the deadline two seasons later for a first and c level prospect?

I don't think it is the best deal out there. Maybe when it comes to overall value. But certainly not when we are talking about the centerpiece of a deal (a young, quality D).


And yeah I would honestly rather take my chances at next years deadline and trade Duchene for the 2018 1st of a bubble team.

Right now I take the say 13-16th overall pick in 2018 + B level prospect over this deal because I think in next years draft there will be Ds who are potentially way better than CDH available in that range.

And that IMO is the only thing that matters in a Duchene trade.
Get the best possible young D (prospect) you can find in return.


I also don't honestly think the offers at next years deadline will be much worse than a middle-pairing D with not much upside who is as old as Duchene, a prospect I don't have much faith in and a mid-1st in a weaker draft.

 

[S E P H]

The problem with Hamonic for the Avs is not really him, but his value probably lowers the package from someone like Barzal or Beauvillier to Dal Colle which Avs aren't going to have any part of. My two cents.

Probably would have been on RDS I'm assuming.

Lavoie is TVN (Sportsnet) and LeBrun is RDS (TSN).


No other rumour concerning Lavoie's supposed statements?

Isles fan coming in peace, I would take what BD Gallof says with a grain of salt. He hasn't been close to the organization for about a decade now. The only one Islanders-specific reporter who has legitimate connections to the team is Arthur Staple.

I don't suggest the quote originated from Gallof considering Avs asking price. Eugene Melidiot went on National TV and criticized Avs for supposedly asking for Chabot, White, and more by calling it stupid. So that is the rumoured amount based on that exchange and also on what McKenzie said many times before on TSN.

CDH + Dal Colle + NYI 1st would be a solid package from NYI.

Not getting Beauvillier or Barzal would be a horrible package if de Haan is the defender coming back.

You simply can't trade Duchene and not get back one of their top forward prospects back. Additionally, you cannot be a team like the Islanders and have Tavares, Duchene, Beauvillier, Barzal, and Ho-Sang and find happiness with all of them. One will ultimately get angry and want more playing time if you also consider special teams time as well.

 

[AvsCOL]

If Fowler was on the table, and you could negotiate an extension prior to the trade, (is that possible?) I'd pull the trigger on that without hesitation. Fowler would be our top-D immediately, and Duchene would give them the offensive boost they need. Works for both sides.

 

[JoemAvs]

If Fowler was on the table, and you could negotiate an extension prior to the trade, (is that possible?) I'd pull the trigger on that without hesitation. Fowler would be our top-D immediately, and Duchene would give them the offensive boost they need. Works for both sides.

Yeah but that is a big if. And I am not even sure another team is allowed to officially discuss an extension prior to July 1st and I am not sure that the Ducks would want that to happen.

I don't think Fowler will be willing to sign a team friendly extension if he knows that the Ducks are offering him around.


I also don't understand why he would sign with the trainwreck that is the Avs instead of just either forcing a trade to a contender or playing out the season on a cup contender and then sign with the highest bidder....


I give this a 0.1 % chance of happening at best...

I think with the Ducks we are talking Theodore/Carlsson + prospects. (for the record which I would take over CdH+MDC+pick).

Worst case Vatanen but I really hope not.

Really don't believe Fowler would even be an option at all.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Lets have a look at all the past trades involving Centers of roughly the same pedigree as Duchene.


- Ryan O'reilly got Zadorov, Grigorenko, and pick #32. No elite young D or top prospect in that trade. Zadorov was a good prospect but if people are gonna say MDC isn't a Top prospect then Zadorov absolutely was not one at the time of this trade either.



- Jeff Carter returned Jack Johnson and the LAK 1st round pick. Jack Johnson is a solid 2nd pairing Dman, exactly like what CDH, Travis Hamonic, Ryan Murray etc. are. The first round pick along with Johnson was a very late 1st.



- Mike Richards returned Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, and a late 2nd round pick. In this example, Brayden Schenn was absolutely a Top prospect at the time of the trade. Wayne Simmonds however was just a below average 2nd liner or good 3rd liner. Because Schenn was a top prospec the Flyers did not return a 1st round pick. They managed to strike lightning in a bottle with Simmonds though as he's obviously developed into an elite winger now, but he wasn't one at the time and didn't even have that potential either.


- Jeff Carter round 1 trade returned Jake Voracek and the #8 overall pick. Voracek was a solid 2nd line player who was still young so had some room to grow. But he wasn't an elite piece at the time of the trade. He had been in the NHL 3 years at that point and only cracked the 50 point mark once.


- Jordan Staal was traded for the #8 pick in the draft, Brian Dumolin, and Brandon Sutter. Once again, Dumolin was a solid young D prospect, but definitely not an elite blue chipper by any means. Sutter was a good #3C but nothing more.







The continuing theme of all of these trades is pretty obvious. Not one trade had an elite young D in the return. The only trade that even involved a Top prospect was the Mike Richards trade and in that they didn't get a 1st round pick out of it. Not to mention Mike Richards was also coming off a 66 point season while also being one of the very best 2-way Centers in the game at the time.


I think it's also pretty easy to say that out of all the above listed trades, every single one of them(With the exception of Staal) involved a Center with more value than what Duchene has right now. Carter and Richards were both established 65-70 point players with great two way games. ROR was also a 55-60 point game with an elite 2 way game.


Duchene on the other hand just had a season to forget and is two years away from UFA.


CDH + 1st + Dal Colle is absolutely in line with these other trades. It's more value then CBJ got for moving Carter and IMO that is the closest comparable to Duchene's current situation.



Expecting something like Hanifin, or Murray + Dubois, CDH + Barzal +, or even Sergachev + 1st +, etc. etc. is just not going to happen.




The sad thing is when the trade doe happen and it's in line with all of these prior trades. All of you guys are going to ***** and complain even further about what a terrible job Sakic has done when in reality he will have done the exact same as many GMs prior to him have done in the same situation.

 

[OMackDuch]

Lavoie is TVN (Sportsnet) and LeBrun is RDS (TSN).

Lavoie is with TVA sport. Lebrun is with TSN. (RDS is the French sister of TSN)

I was in the kitchen when Lavoie spoke yesterday. If I'm not wrong, they talk about players that have a really good chance to be traded in the coming weeks. They talk about Jordan Eberle. After that, they said, "when we talk about a player that have a chance to be traded, Matt Duchene is at the top of the list". Something like that. I didn't hear something spicy to be noted after that.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

There could be a huge difference between a GM thinking he is meeting Sakic's demand and what Sakic is actually asking for.

You should probably wait and see what Sakic actually trades Duchene for before jumping off the cliff.

Stating things without rosy coloured glasses covered in sugar =/= jumping off a cliff.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Yeah but that is a big if. And I am not even sure another team is allowed to officially discuss an extension prior to July 1st and I am not sure that the Ducks would want that to happen.

I don't think Fowler will be willing to sign a team friendly extension if he knows that the Ducks are offering him around.


I also don't understand why he would sign with the trainwreck that is the Avs instead of just either forcing a trade to a contender or playing out the season on a cup contender and then sign with the highest bidder....


I give this a 0.1 % chance of happening at best...

I think with the Ducks we are talking Theodore/Carlsson + prospects. (for the record which I would take over CdH+MDC+pick).

Worst case Vatanen but I really hope not.

Really don't believe Fowler would even be an option at all.

You may not "officially" be allowed to talk extension, but do you really think Buffalo would've given up all that they did had they not had a deal in place for ROR when they traded for him?

Also, this train wreck won't last forever. We have some good, young players coming up in the organization, we can offer him a good contract, and he would be the top d-man on the team. I think that Colorado does have a lot to offer, especially if he sees the team making moves to acquire him and improve in other areas.

I still feel the biggest issue was Bednar's inability to put the right players in the right position to succeed more so than anything else.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah but that is a big if. And I am not even sure another team is allowed to officially discuss an extension prior to July 1st and I am not sure that the Ducks would want that to happen.

I don't think Fowler will be willing to sign a team friendly extension if he knows that the Ducks are offering him around.


I also don't understand why he would sign with the trainwreck that is the Avs instead of just either forcing a trade to a contender or playing out the season on a cup contender and than sign with the highest bidder....


I give this a 0.1 % chance of happening at best...

You are absolutely right on the chances of it happening. On the other stuff though. It's all possible. You hear top media guys talk about teams having worked deals out on a hand shake prior to dates the contact can actually be signed often enough.

Not that I believe in the Avs front office, but Denver and the Avalanche are not really that difficult of a sell despite this last season IMO. It just requires education about our youth and what's coming. Denver has stable ownership who spends when they need it, no cap issues, a great city, and a good base to build on for the future.

Often times guys who hit free agency that want to cash in can't really do that fully with a team that is up against the cap. You either sign a very friendly deal on a team currently contending, or make a bet on a currently building team like Colorado and cash in. Just look at the signings in the past with top guys. They don't really go to the top teams unless they are willing to take a discount.

It's not an impossible spin, but as you said unlikely either way.

 

[tigervixxxen]

There wasn't a need for negotiation, they said publicly what he was looking for and Buffalo paid it.

 

[AvsCOL]

If the return is subpar on Duchene, obviously I'd rather keep him. We're selling low as it is, and to not have a single top prospect coming back would be devastating moving forward imo.

To think that we could have had Jones for Duchene... Or at least I read that somewhere...

 

[Pacman33]

Lets have a look at all the past trades involving Centers of roughly the same pedigree as Duchene.


- Ryan O'reilly got Zadorov, Grigorenko, and pick #32. No elite young D or top prospect in that trade. Zadorov was a good prospect but if people are gonna say MDC isn't a Top prospect then Zadorov absolutely was not one at the time of this trade either.



- Jeff Carter returned Jack Johnson and the LAK 1st round pick. Jack Johnson is a solid 2nd pairing Dman, exactly like what CDH, Travis Hamonic, Ryan Murray etc. are. The first round pick along with Johnson was a very late 1st.



- Mike Richards returned Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, and a late 2nd round pick. In this example, Brayden Schenn was absolutely a Top prospect at the time of the trade. Wayne Simmonds however was just a below average 2nd liner or good 3rd liner. Because Schenn was a top prospec the Flyers did not return a 1st round pick. They managed to strike lightning in a bottle with Simmonds though as he's obviously developed into an elite winger now, but he wasn't one at the time and didn't even have that potential either.


- Jeff Carter round 1 trade returned Jake Voracek and the #8 overall pick. Voracek was a solid 2nd line player who was still young so had some room to grow. But he wasn't an elite piece at the time of the trade. He had been in the NHL 3 years at that point and only cracked the 50 point mark once.


- Jordan Staal was traded for the #8 pick in the draft, Brian Dumolin, and Brandon Sutter. Once again, Dumolin was a solid young D prospect, but definitely not an elite blue chipper by any means. Sutter was a good #3C but nothing more.







The continuing theme of all of these trades is pretty obvious. Not one trade had an elite young D in the return. The only trade that even involved a Top prospect was the Mike Richards trade and in that they didn't get a 1st round pick out of it. Not to mention Mike Richards was also coming off a 66 point season while also being one of the very best 2-way Centers in the game at the time.


I think it's also pretty easy to say that out of all the above listed trades, every single one of them(With the exception of Staal) involved a Center with more value than what Duchene has right now. Carter and Richards were both established 65-70 point players with great two way games. ROR was also a 55-60 point game with an elite 2 way game.


Duchene on the other hand just had a season to forget and is two years away from UFA.


CDH + 1st + Dal Colle is absolutely in line with these other trades. It's more value then CBJ got for moving Carter and IMO that is the closest comparable to Duchene's current situation.



Expecting something like Hanifin, or Murray + Dubois, CDH + Barzal +, or even Sergachev + 1st +, etc. etc. is just not going to happen.




The sad thing is when the trade doe happen and it's in line with all of these prior trades. All of you guys are going to ***** and complain even further about what a terrible job Sakic has done when in reality he will have done the exact same as many GMs prior to him have done in the same situation.

Not going to respond to most of this but your way off in saying zads and mdc are viewed the same. Zads had way more value. Theres a reason every sabres fan said he was off limits and every islander fans proposal has mdc.

 

[JoemAvs]

[...]

Lets see´:

First of all you are omitting the most recent comparable in RyJo who returned exactly what we want. A young potential #1 D.

Yes RyJo most likely had more value than Duchene but a guy like Hanifin for example is also not as good of a prospect as Jones so that kind of evens it out a bit.


Also that ROR bit is laughable and a bit shocking coming from an Avs fan. Maybe you weren't around but Zadorov was regarded a blue chip prospect back then.
Think closer to Sergachev than to CdH....
Sabres fans really, really did not want to give him up and wanted to build their D around Zads - Risto toppairing...

Yeah most of those guys went for high picks or other forwards.

The only one that didn't was Carter v.2.0 but they heavily lost that trade and just wanted to really move on from a huge misunderstanding.

Also JJ back then >> DeHaan now when it comes to value. Closest comparable would probably be Murray.

Murray + prospect + 1st is a deal I could see happening. It would suck because I think we would be on the losing side of the deal just like CBJ was with Carter but depending on the prospect, I wouldn't crucify Sakic for it.

But that is the bare minimum I could maybe stomach personally.


Richards returned the best prospect not in the NHL + a young, established NHL 2nd/3rd line powerforward.

So we are talking Chabot/McAvoy (or maybe Strome/Pulju if you want to go with a forward) + a young Wayne Simmonds (can't think of a comparable right now).

Richards was better than Duchene was but I would be happy with the (D) prospect alone. No need for Simmonds.

Jeff Carter round #1 was an incredible deal for the Flyers.
Voracek was the #7 overall pick who put up 50 and 46 points in the NHL before he was traded at the ripe age of 22. Together with the #8 overall pick.

Yeah I gladly take a deal like that. Max Domi + #7 overall for Duchene?
Yes. Please. I'll settle for Dvorak + #7 to cover the difference between Carter and Duchene.


Jordan Staal who had one year left and who everyone and their mother knew would only sign with the Canes?

Got the #8 overall pick, a somewhat highly touted established 3rd line center with some potential as well as a decent D prospect?

Yes ok. I would maybe do #8, Girgensons (Sutter was more valuable but best comparison I could think of) + Guhle for Duchene. IMO Duchene > Staal in value but I would be willing to settle if there is no better deal out there and if Duchene has to be moved given the fact that at #8 we should land one of Vilardi/Heiskanen/Mittelstadt/Glass/Hischier/Patrick/Liljegren/Pettersson.

Thanks for proving my point that CdH + MDC + #15 is a terrible deal for the Avs.

 

[Foppa]

Yeah I'm sorry but MDC is not at the level Z was at the time of the ROR deal. Z had a year of growing pains in Buffalo for sure but was still viewed as a piece of clay with huge upside and as mentioned, we were told by the majority of Buffalo fans that he was absolutely off limits for ROR.

Frankly Barzal is closer in value as a prospect piece than MDC. Big upside guy but frankly in my opinion there are still questions about Barzal's transition at the NHL level as well. But we are getting to the point where he would be worth the risk in a package deal.

Note - I'm not saying the Isles would even offer Barzal but like most, if CDH or Pulock is the main piece for Matty, then we've been jobbed. I know CDH had the better year and is a lefty but if we have to settle on a defender+ package from the Isles, I'd rather just bite the bullet with Hamonic because between the two of them, when playing at their peak, Hamonic is a much bigger difference maker all over the ice than de Haan and this trade needs to bring real upside back. At his best, Hamonic can be a top pair guy but he's coming off a poor year and we have EJ and Barrie on the right.

BTW, Matty is 26...he won't be 27 until next January. de Haan is also 26. Hamonic will be 27 before the season starts. Unless we are getting an absolute top pairing guy back (ie Fowler which ain't gonna happen), I don't see the logic in deal Duchene for a similarly aged middle pair defender. It thought Sakic said he wants multiple young pieces, ideally, anyways?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Lets see´:

First of all you are omitting the most recent comparable in RyJo who returned exactly what we want. A young potential #1 D.

Yes RyJo most likely had more value than Duchene but a guy like Hanifin for example is also not as good of a prospect as Jones so that kind of evens it out a bit.


Also that ROR bit is laughable and a bit shocking coming from an Avs fan. Maybe you weren't around but Zadorov was regarded a blue chip prospect back then.
Think closer to Sergachev than to CdH....
Sabres fans really, really did not want to give him up and wanted to build their D around Zads - Risto toppairing...

Yeah most of those guys went for high picks or other forwards.

The only one that didn't was Carter v.2.0 but they heavily lost that trade and just wanted to really move on from a huge misunderstanding.

Also JJ back then >> DeHaan now when it comes to value. Closest comparable would probably be Murray.

Murray + prospect + 1st is a deal I could see happening. It would suck because I think we would be on the losing side of the deal just like CBJ was with Carter but depending on the prospect, I wouldn't crucify Sakic for it.

But that is the bare minimum I could maybe stomach personally.


Richards returned the best prospect not in the NHL + a young, established NHL 2nd/3rd line powerforward.

So we are talking Chabot/McAvoy (or maybe Strome/Pulju if you want to go with a forward) + a young Wayne Simmonds.

Richards was better than Duchene was but I would be happy with the prospect alone. No need for Simmonds.

Jeff Carter round #1 was an incredible deal for the Flyers.
Voracek was the #7 overall pick who put up 50 and 46 points in the NHL before he was traded at the ripe age of 22. Together with the #8 overall pick.

Yeah I gladly take a deal like that. Max Domi + #7 overall for Duchene?
Yes. Please. I'll settle for Dvorak + #7 to cover the difference between Carter and Duchene.


Jordan Staal who had one year left and who everyone and their mother knew would only sign with the Canes?

Got the #8 overall pick, a somewhat highly touted established 3rd line center with some potential as well as a decent D prospect?

Yes ok. I would maybe do #8, Girgensons + Guhle for Duchene. IMO Duchene > Staal in value but I would be willing to settle.

Thanks for proving my point that CdH + MDC + #15 is a terrible deal for the Avs.

RyJo is a good example of a 1 for 1 trade. But it also only came along because of an almost perfect fit between the two teams in need for a trade. Lets also not pretend the difference in value between RyJo and Duchene is anywhere close to the difference between Hanifin and Jones. It's a significant difference.


Also, yeah you're absolutely right. The 15 points in 60 games, -10 and threatening to go to the KHL Zadorov was absolutely a Top prospect back in the day....


Sabres fans didn't want to give him up because of the immense value of young Dmen with potential. Zadorov was absolutely not a top prospect. Certainly not in the mold of Chabot/McAvoy like you referenced later on.



Also, I think Chabot/McAvoy straight up for Duchene is pretty awful for us. They're great young prospects but they still haven't shown almost anything in the NHL to this point. They have top pairing potential but they also have just as much possibility as being just good #3's as well.



I think you're vastly underrating Calvin De Haan. He's a good #3 already who entered the league late. He still has room to grown a step or two further. He's a great corner piece to have in our Top 4 and he'll still be a good #3 in 3-4 years when the Avs are actually ready to compete. He'll be 29/30 at that time which for a Dman of his style is still very much in his prime. He's also easily more valuable then Jack Johnson was. And even if you want to call them of equal value. We're getting a mid 1st and a B level prospect on top of him. Johnson only got the late 1st.



Not to mention, the Islanders first as well which is #13 or #14. If Zadorov was a top prospect, then whoever we get at #13/14 is going to be a Top prospect as well. Not once in any of the trades listed above did a team get a Top prospect and a 1st round pick to go along with it. That 1st gives us the option to draft one of Suzuki, Valimaki, Tolvanen, Rasmussen, etc. who are all projected to go in that area. Or even better if someone from that top tier falls down then we get one of them as well.



If you dont like the package because you feel CDH is to old or not a fit that's fine. Or if you dont like MDC that's understandable and you replace him with someone like Bellows instead. But to say that it isn't good value is flat out wrong and quite frankly shows once again a high amount of bias in your opinion of Avalanche players. A recurring trend in almost every post you seem to make.

 

[Goulet17]

I think it is more of fundamental disagreement regarding the strategy of a trade with the Isles than the perceived value of the package.

Would de Haan or Hamonic improve the Avs defense now? Yes, undoubtedly.

Would it result in improvement on the ice? Perhaps a little, but the Avs will still not be a playoff team IMO.

Will either player be a core player in the future as the Avs come out of a rebuilding mode? I don't think that they would, which means that you are staking all of your hopes on the Isles included prospect that will be a a tier or two below their better prospects and a mid-first round draft pick in what is perceived to be a weaker draft.

I would rather go with a strictly futures package than pick up a player that is close in age or older than Duchene and will not be a core piece in a few years.