Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXXVIII | Countdown to Sadness

[lonelybadger]

I really hope Donskoi is closer to 3 than 4.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Yeah, if the Avs miss the playoffs next year many heads should roll. Not even a consideration. That would be a farce.

The only way i see us missing the Playoffs is that our goalies are not doing their jobs for 2+ month ... again. Otherwise we are fine. But i don't see us contending either. At least not yet...

 

[Foxtail]

Wowwwww.... cmon Joe! If we seriously are the mystery team offering 12.5 but won’t go full years on term... just get it done! 5-7 years is a small difference if it means closing the deal. He’s still only 27.

If you looked at @Tweaky's salary cap chart from a few several days ago we need all the cap space in a few years to sign our own players. Sitting here and thinking we have all that cap space is easy until its laid out in front of you. quite shocking to see how quickly it will evaporate on our own young players alone.

Get another goalie Joe, be it a backup , 3rd stringer whatever , sign a Donskoi perhaps , trade Barrie for a young legit goalie prospect if possible and stay the course.

 

[AvsRobin]

If the Avs regress and miss the PO’s because Joe is too chicken **** to offer Panarin max term with that AAV, then MacK is likely walking when his deal is up. He already said he was “done being patient” when they didn’t really do anything to improve the team last year.

And again...the NHL has shown that there’s no shortage of teams willing to bail out of a bad contract. If the Avs needed to do it, they could. But all we’re seeing now is Joe being too scared to make a full commitment offer to an actual superstar.

So no. It won’t be fine if they miss the PO’s. That’s a step backwards, and it’s a step I don’t think they can afford to take.

Anyone can miss the PO. That doesn't mean the org has automatically done something wrong.

Can we not pretend Panarin was slightly likely? For what it's worth. Dater says we did offer max term.

It would suck to miss the post season, but anyone can. They shouldn't hounded into putting the best offer on the table for one of these 2nd liners at 30 years of age just because the competition is doing things they'll regret very soon.

 

[Echo Roku]

Yup, barring a big trade, Joe seems to be sticking with his MO for "low risk, no return" moves that don't accomplish much other than whittling down our surplus for when we do finally get desperate to find an actual solution, but that look like he "tried" to solve the problem, without actually having to put in what a real solution would require.

Straight from the Chevy playbook...


So that it looks like we were in on him without risking actually having to pay up?

There’s the self serving butchering of the rationale I’d expect from this board

 

[cgf]

I know they allowed two last time, but I really don't see why they should this times. It's not something automatically comes with a new CBA.

Look at whether the most influential teams would like a compliance buyout or not...

The only way i see us missing the Playoffs is that our goalies are not doing their jobs for 2+ month ... again. Otherwise we are fine. But i don't see us contending either. At least not yet...

Or if MacK misses more than 10 games

 

[cgf]

There’s the self serving butchering of the rationale I’d expect from this board

Sorry I'm not good at putting a Burgundy-n-Blue spin on things

 

[cgf]

If you looked at @Tweaky's salary cap chart from a few several days ago we need all the cap space in a few years to sign our own players. Sitting here and thinking we have all that cap space is easy until its laid out in front of you. quite shocking to see how quickly it will evaporate on our own young players alone.

Get another goalie Joe, be it a backup , 3rd stringer whatever , sign a Donskoi perhaps , trade Barrie for a young legit goalie prospect if possible and stay the course.

Got a link, cause our cap situation is golden through 2023.

 

[Echo Roku]

Sorry I'm not good at putting a Burgundy-n-Blue spin on things

To see anything other than your opinion as a spin. What a mind to have.

 

[BKarchitect]

Sakic's strategy seems fairly obvious.

Instead of committing to absurd term and AAV that has come up through the negotiating period with players they were interested in for top 6 roles, he went after players he thought could step up with the right opportunity and team play style. Basically it seems his intent was more of a 'buy low' (contract wise, at least) and roll the dice on players they thought could fulfill their upsides and step up like many have speculated.

Its a strategy that is both more risky yet safer in a long term strategy. If you disagree with it, fine, but its not an unreasonable approach.

Nailed it. You don’t have to agree with it - I think there was definitely room for us to spend on one proven, clutch, “slower” vet like Lee or Pavelski or Zucc (Zucc not slow obviously) but you can see the strategy if we end up with a three out of Burakovsky/Ferland/Dzingel/Donskoi (and Carpenter to a lesser extent). Relative youth, untapped upside, non-extreme contracts and speed. Definite risk in the approach but there would be in massive UFA signings as well.

I’m still hoping for Ferland at this point. We need to sign one of him or Dzingel or Nyquist though, somebody in that group along with Donkey and Carpenter plus Burt would be a solid haul and give us plenty of depth and versatility and keep that up tempo speed game that killed the Flames.

 

[Foxtail]

Our goaltending as it sits probably the worst tandem in the league and no depth in case of injury.

 

[RockLobster]

Anyone can miss the PO. That doesn't mean the org has automatically done something wrong.

Can we not pretend Panarin was slightly likely? For what it's worth. Dater says we did offer max term.

It would suck to miss the post season, but anyone can. They shouldn't hounded into putting the best offer on the table for one of these 2nd liners at 30 years of age just because the competition is doing things they'll regret very soon.

Not the 7 years at 12.5M

They offered less AAV than that at 7 years, why, I don’t know.

And this whole “scared of term” thing is just complete and utter bullshit. Everyone knows what UFA is. No one advocating for him to make legitimate offers are saying that we’ll be all sunshine & rainbows if we got one of the coveted guys.

It’s about the fact that heading into last season everybody under the sun could see the hole on the team—the 2nd line. And unless something out-of-left-field happens today, we’ll have the same goddamn question mark going into next season. Two straight seasons of the *same* *f***ing* *issue*. And I don’t care that he’s “building multiple third lines!” I don’t believe that’s a viable answer.

The whole “we’re scared of handing out term because we have to re-sign our guys, and we just don’t want to do it for a UFA in general” is really getting tiresome to read. If Joe doesn’t want to pay the price in a trade (and he hasn’t thus far), and he’d rather hang on to certain potential trade pieces and just go the UFA route to address the hole, then that’s fine. But he has to put on his big boy pants and understand that term and $ is part of UFA. So it’s f***ing frustrating to see him not necessarily understand that, yet overpay (slightly or not-so-slightly) for half-measures.

I want to see us compete for a Cup again. If we miss the PO’s next season it’s not good. The Avs have been “rebuilding” for too long to just miss next year.

 

[Echo Roku]

Our goaltending as it sits probably the worst tandem in the league and no depth in case of injury.

Nah

Though yes we need a solid third goaltender

 

[Forceberg]

Our goaltending as it sits probably the worst tandem in the league and no depth in case of injury.

How do u know that? Have you seen Gruu in the playoffs or Francouz in the KHL and AHL??

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[EdAVSfan]

MOAR 3rd liners.

At this point, we’ll have more 3rd liners than the entire western conference

 

[BKarchitect]

Now if we don’t even get Donskoi and a Dzingel/Ferland level player and struck out completely because we wouldn’t go with term on some deals..then, yes, really time to be upset.

 

[shadow1]

Yeah, kinda feels like a half measure not to offer Panarin the full 7 years.

If the Avs has any chance at Panarin, they had to go all in, 100%. Very questionable strategy.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Our goaltending as it sits probably the worst tandem in the league and no depth in case of injury.

Have you looked at the garbage Carolina has in goal?

 

[Goulet17]

If the Avs went max term for Panarin (i.e., one more year), how many of you honestly feel like it would have made a difference? I have seen nothing to indicate that he ever had any legitimate interest in playing in Denver. I am sorry, but it feels consistent with what we have seen/heard about his preferences from the beginning of the process.

 

[Gatorbait19]

I know they allowed two last time, but I really don't see why they should this times. It's not something automatically comes with a new CBA.

They’ll be a huge push for it from the players’ side. Just like the report from yesterday said they’ll want GMs to get their horrible deals off the books so they can give out more.

 

[RockLobster]

To me the laughable thing is offering 12.5M for 4 years vs. 11.67M for 7. What the hell is the dumbass reason for that?

 

[AvsRobin]

Not the 7 years at 12.5M

They offered less AAV than that at 7 years, why, I don’t know.

And this whole “scared of term” thing is just complete and utter bull****. Everyone knows what UFA is. No one advocating for him to make legitimate offers are saying that we’ll be all sunshine & rainbows if we got one of the coveted guys.

It’s about the fact that heading into last season everybody under the sun could see the hole on the team—the 2nd line. And unless something out-of-left-field happens today, we’ll have the same goddamn question mark going into next season. Two straight seasons of the *same* *****ing* *issue*. And I don’t care that he’s “building multiple third lines!” I don’t believe that’s a viable answer.

The whole “we’re scared of handing out term because we have to re-sign our guys, and we just don’t want to do it for a UFA in general” is really getting tiresome to read. If Joe doesn’t want to pay the price in a trade (and he hasn’t thus far), and he’d rather hang on to certain potential trade pieces and just go the UFA route to address the hole, then that’s fine. But he has to put on his big boy pants and understand that term and $ is part of UFA. So it’s ****ing frustrating to see him not necessarily understand that, yet overpay (slightly or not-so-slightly) for half-measures.

I want to see us compete for a Cup again. If we miss the PO’s next season it’s not good. The Avs have been “rebuilding” for too long to just miss next year.

Panarin wasn't even considering us anyway. But we did try. Maybe we could have done more? Personally I don't think it makes a difference.

Every team has their achilles heal. Hawks fans have been beating their FO for not solving the 2nd line C for over a decade. In a salary cap world it's extremely hard to fix these issue long term, there will always be something.

The key for me is how you work around your weaknesses, you can if you handle deployment in a smart way.

I think Joe is being smart on the UFA-market. For me it's getting tiredsome to read takes that we should be more aggressive there when we know what it leads to. I'm not frustrated about us walking away from deals that they feel will hurt us long term, I am relieved by that. But anyone is free to disagree if they feel like that is how you build a winning team. And we see good contracts in UFA every year, it's just that the majority doesn't go well. But we can always point to one or two six months from now and say "we should have signed that!"

But like I said, I'm not trying to convince anybody. I'm just happy that we finally have a sensible FO in my opinion. We have experienced som truly awful years in that regard earlier.

 

[AvsRobin]

To me the laughable thing is offering 12.5M for 4 years vs. 11.67M for 7. What the hell is the dumbass reason for that?

Dater has changed his mind again saying it was 12M over the 7 year deal, so pretty much same as everyone else.

 

[Echo Roku]

They’ll be a huge push for it from the players’ side. Just like the report from yesterday said they’ll want GMs to get their horrible deals off the books so they can give out more.

They’re not going to allow compliance buyouts unless there’s actually a regression in salary cap due to a lockout or a new CBA structure