Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXVI|Kerfoot or Corefoot?

[Colorado Avalanche]

Kerfoot is Bozak light. An ok player to have around when you don't have the best depth but sooner or later you have to move on.

Exactly. Kerfoot feels like another Parenteau to me. He could perform well with a poor team but I don't see fit with a GOOD team.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So glad that Kerfoot has come up huge for us down the stretch. I’d be even happier if this has grabbed the attention of any other teams.

I hope he continues to help us and then I hope he’s traded.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So glad that Kerfoot has come up huge for us down the stretch. I’d be even happier if this has grabbed the attention of any other teams.

I hope he continues to help us and then I hope he’s traded.

Amen. Hopefully he has Vancouver salivating over the opportunity to get him this summer. Antoine Roussel would be great in an Avs sweater.

 

[henchman21]

"I understand a Klef/Barrie swap more than I do random wing/Barrie swap. Klef is a similar level D with different strengths and on a great contract. No ideal to me, but I get it more than a Marner/Barrie swap for sure."

"Marner is a good player and will be a 60-65 point winger in this league for a while... he's a good player, but he won't be more than a 2nd line winger here (he isn't passing Rants by any stretch and Landy fits way better on the 1st line). I don't see giving a up a 50+ point defensemen for a 2nd line winger as an advantageous swap.

If you look through the history of hockey, teams that build around wingers don't ever take that next step. You need centers, defensemen, and a goalie."

I just seemed like you downplayed Marners potential and overrated Barrie a bit.​

Already stated I underrated Marner (in no way did I overrate Barrie). I still believe that you don’t trade Barrie for a winger. If you move him, you move him for more important positions. Top 3D that is a two way player or top 6 center. Nothing else makes sense from an asset point of view.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Already stated I underrated Marner (in no way did I overrate Barrie). I still believe that you don’t trade Barrie for a winger. If you move him, you move him for more important positions. Top 3D that is a two way player or top 6 center. Nothing else makes sense from an asset point of view.

I'd 100% trade Barrie for Marner, he plays the game a lot like a center, and is actually pretty good defensively on top of his outstanding offensive abilities.

 

[henchman21]

I'd 100% trade Barrie for Marner, he plays the game a lot like a center, and is actually pretty good defensively on top of his outstanding offensive abilities.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you can win Cups building around wingers, even if they play like centers. Ovi is a generational winger and it took the Caps having two very good centers to win a Cup (with some luck thrown in). You win with depth down the middle and on defense.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Already stated I underrated Marner (in no way did I overrate Barrie). I still believe that you don’t trade Barrie for a winger. If you move him, you move him for more important positions. Top 3D that is a two way player or top 6 center. Nothing else makes sense from an asset point of view.

Marner is the better player and 6 years younger, the Avs would be foolish not to make that deal. When you factor in the contract situations it becomes very lopsided. If we were to trade Barrie he would never return anything as valuable as Marner.

 

[hooverdam]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you can win Cups building around wingers, even if they play like centers. Ovi is a generational winger and it took the Caps having two very good centers to win a Cup (with some luck thrown in). You win with depth down the middle and on defense.

Exactly. It's about prioritizing positions. A really, really great winger like Marner might be better than Barrie in a vacuum, but having a mobile, active defense is far more important to this team's offense than one elite winger.

Plus, thinking about contracts and what Marner will demand vs. what Barrie will demand, it's also about where we should be spending that money. I'd have invested a lot into Tavares to get that strong 3 center model Pittsburgh won with; I would not invest the same kind of money in an elite winger because that takes away from other areas of need.

 

[Balthazar]

Marner is the better player and 6 years younger, the Avs would be foolish not to make that deal. When you factor in the contract situations it becomes very lopsided. If we were to trade Barrie he would never return anything as valuable as Marner.

This is about as likely as us trading Rantanen for Torey Krug.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Amen. Hopefully he has Vancouver salivating over the opportunity to get him this summer. Antoine Roussel would be great in an Avs sweater.

Pass, but that might just be me.

A soon-to-be 30 year old, 5'11" dude who doesn't score even 10 goals per season and is making more money than Matt Calvert. Seriously... $3m AAV for Roussell for 3 more years after this one is BAD. Another under 6 foot left handed shot making millions on our bottom 6. I like his jam and that's about it.

We would regret Roussell. Mark my words.

I'd much prefer a guy like Kassian out of Edmonton.

28 year old, 6'3" hog who will be making $1.95m next season. He has scored 15 goals this year. Big, heavy right handed shot and falls into that tier of Wilson-like guys who put fear into an opponent.

Would love to have him, and I would really hope a 40+ point forward like Kerf can return better than Roussell.

 

[Balthazar]

Greer can do Roussell's job these days.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

This is about as likely as us trading Rantanen for Torey Krug.

Yeah something like that. Imagine if someone made a Rantanen for Krug proposal here, yet somehow Barrie for Marner is not a good move for the Avs. The Avs could even flip Marner to another team and get more back than in any potential Barrie trade.

 

[henchman21]

Marner is the better player and 6 years younger, the Avs would be foolish not to make that deal. When you factor in the contract situations it becomes very lopsided. If we were to trade Barrie he would never return anything as valuable as Marner.

6 years younger certainly... better player I'm not fully on board with, nor the contract situation. Marner is a top 5 scoring winger right now. If that is his new norm, than yeah he's a higher level, if slightly. If he is really more a top 10 sort. That is right where Barrie is amongst offensive defensemen. Both would be elite offensive players for their position. Marner plays wing which is less valuable than defensemen. Contract wise... Marner is going to demand 11+m and a 4 or 5 year deal looks like the path that will go down (so UFA at the end). Barrie is going to be in the 7s or 8s and a 5-6 year deal.

This is where I think people underrate Barrie. They see a winger that is having a phenomenal season and is a 90 point sort of guy. He sits exactly 5th in league amongst wingers. While Barrie is 7th in the league amongst defensemen. But that is just 1 season. Combine the past 2 Barrie sits 6th in the league. Marner slides to 10th. Marner is an elite winger and if scoring stays up like this season he is going to be a PPG+ sort of guy for a while. Barrie is an elite defensemen at producing offense... just a handful in the league are better than him at it.

When it comes to the team, Barrie has 34 more points than the next defensemen on the team. He is far and away the offensive driver from the backend on this team. In today's NHL you need that driver from the backend to have a good offense. If Barrie wasn't here, the production would drop significantly.

FTR I get Marner has more value in a trade. I think Barrie has more value to the team.

 

[OwenNolan]

Exactly. Kerfoot feels like another Parenteau to me. He could perform well with a poor team but I don't see fit with a GOOD team.

He is playing well with us and we are a good team

 

[OwenNolan]

Amen. Hopefully he has Vancouver salivating over the opportunity to get him this summer. Antoine Roussel would be great in an Avs sweater.

Good thing you aren't the GM

 

[TruePowerSlave]

6 years younger certainly... better player I'm not fully on board with, nor the contract situation. Marner is a top 5 scoring winger right now. If that is his new norm, than yeah he's a higher level, if slightly. If he is really more a top 10 sort. That is right where Barrie is amongst offensive defensemen. Both would be elite offensive players for their position. Marner plays wing which is less valuable than defensemen. Contract wise... Marner is going to demand 11+m and a 4 or 5 year deal looks like the path that will go down (so UFA at the end). Barrie is going to be in the 7s or 8s and a 5-6 year deal.

This is where I think people underrate Barrie. They see a winger that is having a phenomenal season and is a 90 point sort of guy. He sits exactly 5th in league amongst wingers. While Barrie is 7th in the league amongst defensemen. But that is just 1 season. Combine the past 2 Barrie sits 6th in the league. Marner slides to 10th. Marner is an elite winger and if scoring stays up like this season he is going to be a PPG+ sort of guy for a while. Barrie is an elite defensemen at producing offense... just a handful in the league are better than him at it.

When it comes to the team, Barrie has 34 more points than the next defensemen on the team. He is far and away the offensive driver from the backend on this team. In today's NHL you need that driver from the backend to have a good offense. If Barrie wasn't here, the production would drop significantly.

Marner's value is very comparable to Rantanen. Would you trade Rantanen for Barrie?

 

[Iceberg]

Marner was not the Marner who plays with a 1C in Tavares when these posts were made. He was still going through growing pains and spending time on Babcock's fourth line. Additionally, we don't really know if Marner would be that same kind of play driver here; we do know that Barrie is excellent at driving play from his much more vital position.

Also, I had no idea Nolan Patrick was so highly touted on this board, but at least he's a center. He's not all that great but he's still a center.

I expected more from our highly regarded scouts.

 

[henchman21]

Marner's value is very comparable to Rantanen. Would you trade Barrie for Rantanen?

All depends on a team situation... do I have Marner on the team? We have Landeskog and Rantanen here already, why trade for a 1st line winger using the best defensemen on the team when that winger (or one of the other two) is going to be playing with a subpar 2nd line center? You try to build a team, not a collection of talent.

 

[Patagonia]

Already stated I underrated Marner (in no way did I overrate Barrie). I still believe that you don’t trade Barrie for a winger. If you move him, you move him for more important positions. Top 3D that is a two way player or top 6 center. Nothing else makes sense from an asset point of view.

I tend to agree Wingers are worth less, except certain circumstances.

Marner is an extremely talented winger than can drive the play and dictate the game. Barrie is nowhere as talented and wouldn't hesitate to send him to Toronto with a +++.

Another comparable is sending Rants for Ghost. No chance the AVs consider this proposal, but it's similar that Ghost plays the tougher position and generating points, but Rants should be downgraded and possibly benefited from Mackinnon passes.

 

[henchman21]

I tend to agree Wingers are worth less, except certain circumstances.

Marner is an extremely talented winger than can drive the play and dictate the game. Barrie is nowhere as talented and wouldn't hesitate to send him to Toronto with a +++.

Another comparable is sending Rants for Ghost. No chance the AVs consider this proposal, but it's similar that Ghost plays the tougher position and generating points, but Rants should be downgraded and possibly benefited from Mackinnon passes.

I think you're missing my point. The Avs already have 2 first line capable wingers. They have a #1C. What the Avs lack is defense and center depth (maybe goaltending too). Barrie is the best defensemen on the team. EJ is regressing and won't be top 4 for long. Girard is a top 4 guy, but right now a lower end one. I believe Barrie is a good #2D, but even if you think he's just a #3... you're trading one of the 3 top 4 defensemen on a team for a player that doesn't fill a need but a want.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

All depends on a team situation... do I have Marner on the team? We have Landeskog and Rantanen here already, why trade for a 1st line winger using the best defensemen on the team when that winger (or one of the other two) is going to be playing with a subpar 2nd line center? You try to build a team, not a collection of talent.

If we don't extend Barrie and trade him prepare to be very disappointed in the return, its not going to be anything close to Rantanen or Marner

 

[henchman21]

If we don't extend Barrie and trade him prepare to be very disappointed in the return, its not going to be anything close to Rantanen or Marner

See above (and below)... I acknowledge the value difference. The solution is to extend our best defensemen though.

FTR I get Marner has more value in a trade. I think Barrie has more value to the team.

 

[Patagonia]

I think you're missing my point. The Avs already have 2 first line capable wingers. They have a #1C. What the Avs lack is defense and center depth (maybe goaltending too). Barrie is the best defensemen on the team. EJ is regressing and won't be top 4 for long. Girard is a top 4 guy, but right now a lower end one. I believe Barrie is a good #2D, but even if you think he's just a #3... you're trading one of the 3 top 4 defensemen on a team for a player that doesn't fill a need but a want.

Barrie with his offensive skills, can't play defense. EJ is regressing, but has a NMC and still the best defender. He also provides steady on ice leadership and would be a greater loss.

 

[henchman21]

Barrie with his offensive skills, can't play defense. EJ is regressing, but has a NMC and still the best defender. He also provides steady on ice leadership and would be a greater loss.

Right now either one would be a big loss. The goal should be to build a good top 4, and Barrie here helps that more than any winger for very obvious reasons.

Typically to win a Cup you needa core of two good centers, a top end defensemen, at least an average starting goalie (but higher end one helps), a top line wing or two, and a solid overall top 4 D. One of players has to be a gamebreaker that can open up a series by themselves. When you look at what the Avs have they have the #1C and gamebreaker in MacK. Rants is also a gamebreaker and top line winger. Landy also fits the top line winger. Barrie, EJ, and Girard are not the top end defensemen, but they are adequate depth. What the Avs are missing is that 2nd line center, top end defensemen, and goalie. They are hoping Makar can be that top end defensemen and Grubs can be the goalie. So if you were to rob from Peter to pay Paul, you go after the holes or don't make your situation worse. Trading one of the defensemen should result in a comparable level (maybe different style) defensemen or 2nd line center coming back.

 

[OwenNolan]

I think you're missing my point. The Avs already have 2 first line capable wingers. They have a #1C. What the Avs lack is defense and center depth (maybe goaltending too). Barrie is the best defensemen on the team. EJ is regressing and won't be top 4 for long. Girard is a top 4 guy, but right now a lower end one. I believe Barrie is a good #2D, but even if you think he's just a #3... you're trading one of the 3 top 4 defensemen on a team for a player that doesn't fill a need but a want.

Marner with Jack Hughes would be criminal.

I'd absolutely trade Barrie for Marner. In a heartbeat. Especially when we have Makar ready to take over for Barrie.

Barrie and Avs 1st for Marner
Sign Brett Connolly


Kerfoot- Mack- Rantanen
Landeskog- Hughes- Marner
Compher- Soderberg- Connolly
Nieto- Jost- Calvert

Makar- EJ
Girard- Cole
Zadorov- Graves

That's about as good as it gets.