Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XIX|Never Stop (Losing) Never Stopping (The Losing)

[Foppberg]

EJ isn't what he used to be. Losing him wouldn't be that big of a loss outside of potentially his locker room presence.

 

[henchman21]

Cale Makar will play the role EJ plays, and if he can't we're screwed either way. Furthermore, Erik Johnson can't play the role Erik Johnson plays.

There is so much truth to this... the likelihood of getting a #1D in a trade or signing here is very small. If Makar can't be that guy, then the Avs would have to develop one from elsewhere in the system or this year's picks... given the timeframe with that development, it is likely long past the expiration date of this core. The Avs are down the road of Makar being that guy and they have to go all in there... there really isn't a choice.

 

[LTC Pain]

EJ isn't what he isn't to be. Losing him wouldn't be that big of a loss outside of potentially his locker room presence.

"EJ isn't what he isn't to be."??????

 

[Iceberg]

Who will replace Barrie when Makar moves to 1st pair? There's no rule you can't have two elite offensive defensemen, San Jose has them and they are doing just fine. You build around them and fit in other pieces that compliment them well. It's easier to find a defensively responsible guy who can cover up defensively than to find a 65+ point defenseman.

I think you are asking too much from Makar to be on the 1st pair by his second NHL season, if he is not ready than what? Who play EJ's minutes? Cole? Zadorov?

And as for the bolded, i think finding a 6'4" D that can skate and play on the top pair is just as hard, if not more.

And I don't fully understand how you can label a guy who is 4th to Burns, EK and Carlson in ppg over the last two seasons as just great offensively? I mean if a top 5 point producer from the backend isn't elite then there are two elite guys in the entire league.

Beacuse i see how many time he passes to MacKinnon's feet on the PP.

He is not on EK's level offensively, so if i call Barrie elite what is the world i use for EK?

Barrie has played the most PP TOI/G in the league the past two seasons.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Cale Makar will play the role EJ plays, and if he can't we're screwed either way. Furthermore, Erik Johnson can't play the role Erik Johnson plays.

Makar is such an important player to the organisation. If he does not become a legit top pairing defenseman then we will be rolling #3Ds for a long time and that is not a winning formula. Its very unlikely we get a #1D in free agency, trade or draft.

 

[Foppberg]

"EJ isn't what he isn't to be."??????

Isn't what he used to be **

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Makar is such an important player to the organisation. If he does not become a legit top pairing defenseman then we will be rolling #3Ds for a long time and that is not a winning formula. Its very unlikely we get a #1D in free agency, trade or draft.

Well regardless of what Makar turns into we do have a Top pairing Defender already that really should be here for the next 7-8 years if we do things right.


Makar needs to pan out though plain and simple.

 

[henchman21]

He is not on EK's level offensively, so if i call Barrie elite what is the world i use for EK?

Generational... or very near it

Makar has to work out towards being a top pairing guy. He doesn't need to be it his rookie or 2nd season, but he needs to make progress towards it. As he earns the minutes, EJ should be moved down and Barrie should maintain his minutes. It isn't a situation where the Avs need to just say here 22 year old, have the #1D spot. Filter him in until he is ready for the role, but he needs to be the guy that takes over that role and EJ needs to be wound down.

 

[Ivan13]

Generational... or very near it

He's generational, and there's no doubt about it.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Well regardless of what Makar turns into we do have a Top pairing Defender already that really should be here for the next 7-8 years if we do things right.


Makar needs to pan out though plain and simple.

Are you referring to Barrie? He is not a top pairing D, excellent #3 with elite offensive ability from the back end.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

The locker room thing and Sakic’s loyalty probably completely prevents EJ from ever being traded. I’d like for it to happen from an asset management point of view but EJ has stuck by and believed in this team through all our rough patches. He’s been very vocal about his displeasure for people who didn’t want to be there and always gave it his all. Sakic isn’t trading him.

 

[Iceberg]

So, what you guys think the definition of a "top pairing D" is? It appears to me that there is a big difference around here regarding this concept.

 

[Ivan13]

To me, the view of a guy who needs to be at least markedly above average defensively to be considered a top pairing D is an archaic one. Using that rule of thumb, the 2017 Norris winner isn't a top pairing D.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

To me, the view of a guy who needs to be at least markedly above average defensively to be considered a top pairing D is an archaic one. Using that rule of thumb, the 2017 Norris winner isn't a top pairing D.

I think you either have to be above average in every category or absolutely dominant in one. I'd personally love to see a modern day Rod Langway come along, just a guy that is so overwhelmingly superior defensively that he doesn't need ridiculous offensive numbers to win the Norris.

 

[Iceberg]

Playing against other teams top lines is required to be a top pairing D?

 

[Iceberg]

How about playing in all situations?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

From a pure, homer fan point, I'm really hoping Laine continues to struggle and the Jets decide that they could use some assets for him in order to have money for some other players. I dream of a Laine - ? - Kakko 2nd line. That would be amazing. Just glorious. 0% chance of happening, but I've been a Laine fan, and that shot is just beautiful.

 

[Foppberg]

The last old school top pairing Dman type was prime Chara.

Or maybe Doughty, but the game is changing. Gotta keep up.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

The last old school top pairing Dman type was prime Chara.

Or maybe Doughty, but the game is changing. Gotta keep up.

I'd agree with this. I still think that old school top pairing type player would be ideal, but having someone that can dominate offensively is the new trend. It makes sense though, you're going to get worn out less shutting people down if you're the one with the puck in the offensive zone.

 

[Ivan13]

You use players depending on their strength. One of the best defensemen of his generation didn't play all that much against other team's top lines, Hammer and Oduya did that for him. Like I said I find this whole need to cast the player as 1st pair, 2nd pair whatever kind of pointless. Is EJ a better fit to start a shift in the defensive zone and should he be used more when trying to prevent a goal in comparison to Tyson? Yes.

Does that make him a better player? No. Tyson is excellent in what he is asked to do, EJ is/was good.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

How about playing in all situations?

Certainly not.


I dont think they have to play the oppositions top lines all the time either honestly. As long as they're not completely sheltered from it, and Barrie isn't. He gets plenty of action against other teams best players. EJ might face them more but that doesn't mean we shelter Barrie.


I really dont see how anyone can call Barrie a middle pairing Defender now. I could understand a couple years ago when there was still some questions to his offensive upside or hell even his defensive game a couple years ago wasn't what it is today. He's not strong defensively and I would even say calling him average in that regard would be a stretch but compared to a couple years ago he has certainly improved his board play and willingness to get involved in the physical side.



If Barrie is a #3D he is the best in the league.

 

[Avs71]

What separates Barrie from Yandle and Krug? Are both those players top pairing as well?

 

[lonelybadger]

Trade for Dougie Hamilton.....Profit?

 

[henchman21]

What separates Barrie from Yandle and Krug? Are both those players top pairing as well?

Yandle without a doubt is. He is a very good defensemen, not a true #1... but like the Avs Florida doesn't have one and Yandle is their defacto #1. I'd say Krug is too, but not a high end top pairing guy more of a low end one. Whenever McAvoy has been out this season, Krug has taken over as their top defensemen and been quite good (Chara has been limited this year). If McAvoy or Chara wasn't there, he'd consistently be one of their top minute defensemen. Krug is highly, highly underrated.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

How about playing in all situations?

That has nothing to do with pairing orientation. Determining if somebody is a 1C, 2D, bottom 6 Winger etc is based on how they play 5v5. There are plenty of power play specialists and PK experts but that doesn’t affect their spot in a lineup 5v5.