Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XIX|Never Stop (Losing) Never Stopping (The Losing)

[UncleRisto]

For those who can read French:



For those who can't: The 2 Russians are holding Kekalainen by the balls.

Well then I guess it's time for Kekäläinen to put his balls on the table.

 

[Balthazar]

Well then I guess it's time for Kekäläinen to put his balls on the table.

Bobrovsky holding a full NMC and straight up refusing to talk extension puts the Jackets in a very bad spot. If he ends up walking at the end of the year because he turned down trades I wish him nothing but bad luck. I hate when players f*** over their team because it's their right. I'll never forgive Tavares either.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I just don't get the Ceci thing at all. It's not just about analytics either since he doesn't meet the eye test or the stat geek test. Who cares if he's a 25 year old 6'2" RHD if he's really bad? There are dumb teams out there and there were even reports of the Avs wanting Ceci in the Duchene talks at one point but I'd still be shocked if he returned anything close to Muzzin. If the trade itself isn't enough, a team that values him that highly will likely give him a long-term extension too.

All this. Alll of this.

 

[dahrougem2]

Bobrovsky holding a full NMC and straight up refusing to talk extention puts the Jackets in a very bad spot. If he ends up walking at the end of the year because he turned down trades I wish him nothing but bad luck. I hate when players **** over their team because it's their right. I'll never forgive Tavares either.

Lol. They're the ones that gave him the NMC. How in the hell do you blame Bobrovsky?

I love it when players get blamed for something the organization willingly handed out.

 

[Balthazar]

Lol. They're the ones that gave him the NMC. How in the hell do you blame Bobrovsky?

I don't blame him for the NMC, I blame him if he turns down a trade and refuses to talk extension knowing full well that CBJ will lose everything.

 

[PAZ]

I don't blame him for the NMC, I blame him if he turns down a trade and refuses to talk extension knowing full well that CBJ will lose everything.

Why?

It's inconvenient when you get traded, you need to uproot or be away from your family even more, find new housing, adapt to a new city, gain a new social circle, etc. for a few months. What exactly does he owe Columbus to make that sacrifice? At the end of the day, it's business and it's the same mindset as if you change jobs. In 99% of cases, you don't owe the company anything and the company doesn't owe you anything. So unless Bobrovsky wants to ensure he has a good tie back to Columbus (and by the sounds of it he wants nothing to do with them anymore) he's well within his right to do that.

Columbus gave him the full NMC, if they intended to trade him down the road they should've ya'know... negotiated that portion. Give him a partial NMC, pay him more money, etc.

 

[CB Joe]

I don't blame him for the NMC, I blame him if he turns down a trade and refuses to talk extension knowing full well that CBJ will lose everything.

You shouldn't. He probably left money on the table to get a NMC. He should be free to use it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If the team is willing to give you a NMC it’s likely going to lower the dollars in that contract by a few. People shouldn’t be upset when players don’t waive their NMC’s. People should be upset when their team gives NMC’s.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I really hope the Avs move EJ soon. I think when you look at what Muzzin just got, Johnson could probably fetch a similar package right now. But if we hang onto him for another year or two he quickly becomes a cap dump probably.

 

[Iceberg]

Yeah, lets trade our best two-way defenseman now because he may or may not become a cap dump in two years.

 

[BKarchitect]

I get the sentiment on dealing EJ before he is past his expiration date but I’m not sure how we are making our defense better with that kind of move. Same with the whole Zadorov rumor thing. And any idea regarding Barrie. Yeah we have a big hole or two up front but our defense isn’t exactly flush with riches either.

If Sakic were to trade a key defender, it better be part of a series of big moves that also upgrades the blue line or at least adequetely fills any voids left behind. Which is why I think he’s going to stand pat until at least the draft.

 

[Iceberg]

I get the sentiment on dealing EJ before he is past his expiration date but I’m not sure how we are making our defense better with that kind of move. Same with the whole Zadorov rumor thing. And any idea regarding Barrie. Yeah we have a big hole or two up front but our defense isn’t exactly flush with riches either.

If Sakic were to trade a key defender, it better be part of a series of big moves that also upgrades the blue line or at least adequetely fills any voids left behind. Which is why I think he’s going to stand pat until at least the draft.

At least we have an obvious Barrie replacement already on the system that should be in the NHL when next season starts. As for EJ, we don't have anybody that can play the role he plays.

 

[Ivan13]

Cale Makar will play the role EJ plays, and if he can't we're screwed either way. Furthermore, Erik Johnson can't play the role Erik Johnson plays.

 

[BKarchitect]

Also let’s be honest guys. Our prospect pool on defense isn’t much outside Makar. Timmins just can’t be counted on for anything until he’s got a clean bill of health and aside from that he just lost a very valuable year of development. We all love Meloche’s game but sure doesn’t seem like the Avs brass are that high on him otherwise I’d think he’d have gotten at least a cup of tea by now. And then we have like a dozen fringes depth guys with little upside. Take away Makar and our whole system depth on defense is really bad.

There’s a lot more hope to fill from within up front than the blue line and that’s with Jost stumbling a bit this year and not counting the fact that the Sens pick is by all accounts going to be best valued by picking a potential franchise forward.

 

[Iceberg]

Cale Makar will play the role EJ plays, and if he can't we're screwed either way. Furthermore, Erik Johnson can't play the role Erik Johnson plays.

When exactly do you expect him to be on our top pair?

 

[Ivan13]

When exactly do you expect him to be on our top pair?

In 20/21. He should be the one replacing EJ and not be tasked with replacing Barrie. I honestly don't understand this notion that Makar is an offensive defenseman. I mean, sure he dangles and he's flashy, but the kid can play D and he projects as an all-around defenseman at the NHL level. You don't need to be 6'3'' to be effective defensively at the NHL level. Furthermore, the kid is built like MacKinnon and should have little problem handling heavy forecheck at the NHL level.

And again, EJ is not the answer here and he should be looked at as a placeholder for Makar, because like I said if Cale doesn't pan out we are screwed either way because there is no other realistic option that can take the role of a #1D on this team, unless we draft Bowen Byram.

And last but not least, I'm boring myself to death with this already, but the Colorado Avalanche should not trade Tyson Barrie in any circumstance if he is willing to sign here for market value. A team devoid of offensive talent outside of 4 players should be looking to add to the offensive depth, not looking to trade away their 4th best offensive producer.

 

[Foppberg]

Yeah, lets trade our best two-way defenseman now because he may or may not become a cap dump in two years.

He hasn't been that for awhile.

 

[Ivan13]

He hasn't been that for awhile.

Honestly, the classification of a two-way player bothers me to no end. Perfect example for that is Oscar Klefbom, he is decent at everything, but definitely wouldn't classify as very good in either offense or defense, yet because he is a "two-way" player he is seen by better than Barrie by some because he can play all 200 foot of the ice. So what? If you look at the net effect both of these players have on their team the difference is absolutely ridiculously tilted in Barrie's favor offensively, so that the difference in defensive play is just absurd to hang your hat on.

 

[Iceberg]

He hasn't been that for awhile.

And who has? (please don't say Barrie)

 

[CB Joe]

Like it or not I think the Avs are stuck with Johnson for most of the duration of his contract. I can't see any team willing to take on his contract at his age and with his injury history.

More of a side note but the Avs currently don't have a defenseman capable of replacing him.

 

[Ivan13]

And who has? (please don't say Barrie)

Who of the defenders on the team helps the team win the most? EJ who is mediocre offensively and good defensively, or Barrie who is absolutely elite offensively and below average defensively?

PS

Again, EJ plays the toughest minutes because he is best suited to play that role on the team and because Tyson's strengths lay elsewhere, and not because he is fantastic in that role. And before anyone loses their mind, I'm speaking of the current version of EJ, not prime EJ who is long gone.

 

[Foppberg]

And who has? (please don't say Barrie)

Nobody. We haven't had a legit solid 2 way D in a while.

 

[CB Joe]

I wish Girard would use a longer stick. He easily gets manhandled but he's really good with his stick. I can't help but think he'd be much better in his own end with a longer reach.

 

[Iceberg]

Who of the defenders on the team helps the team win the most? EJ who is mediocre offensively and good defensively, or Barrie who is absolutely elite offensively and below average defensively?

I would say EJ is below average offensively and good defensively while Barrie is great offensively and mediocre defensively.

And for some weird reason the team wins a bunch of the games Barrie doesn't play... go figure.

Again, EJ plays the toughest minutes because he is best suited to play that role on the team and because Tyson's strengths lay elsewhere, and not because he is fantastic in that role. And before anyone loses their mind, I'm speaking of the current version of EJ, not prime EJ who is long gone.

And until we have someone to replace him on that role, he shouldn't be traded.

Now, if you think Makar can replace EJ by 20-21, than he should have little problem replacing Barrie's offensive production next year if he is given the same PP ice time and put on same even strengh situations as Barrie.

 

[Ivan13]

I would say EJ is below average offensively and good defensively while Barrie is great offensively and mediocre defensively.

And for some weird reason the team wins a bunch of the games Barrie doesn't play... go figure.



And until we have someone to replace him on that role, he shouldn't be traded.

Now, if you think Makar can replace EJ by 20-21, than he should have little problem replacing Barrie's offensive production next year if he is given the same PP ice time and put on same even strengh situations as Barrie.

Who will replace Barrie when Makar moves to 1st pair? There's no rule you can't have two elite offensive defensemen, San Jose has them and they are doing just fine. You build around them and fit in other pieces that compliment them well. It's easier to find a defensively responsible guy who can cover up defensively than to find a 65+ point defenseman.

And I don't fully understand how you can label a guy who is 4th to Burns, EK and Carlson in ppg over the last two seasons as just great offensively? I mean if a top 5 point producer from the backend isn't elite then there are two elite guys in the entire league.

I'm not advocating EJ needs to be traded at all cost or that the team should even actively shop him around, but if a team comes and offers you something valuable you have to weigh your options.